B10 Qb's

Xerxes said:
We're getting off the QB topic here but that's what threads do...

Anyway I do want to make it clear that I don't like to blame schedules. Since the East/West split in 2014 I think the best team in the West each season has won the division despite the schedules. Iowa had the advantage in 2014 & 2016 but Wisconsin won and they were clearly the best team. Wisconsin had the schedule advantage over Iowa in 2015, yet the Hawkeyes won. Last year Wisconsin had the schedule advantage but was also clearly the superior team.

I do hope the B1G does something to regarding the cross division schedules. The East is so incredibly top heavy and has 3 traditional bad programs with Indiana, Rutgers, & Maryland and that can make for some very unbalanced cross-overs. Although Maryland's recruiting is taking off. They have a great talent base there if they get a good staff in place.
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I think we have to now wait on Nebraska to see if they can step up their game, If they do, then you have Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska at the top which is pretty formidable. NW can be a pest. It will take the west to win some more high profile crossover games instead of just beating up on the lower East teams. So far, I think the records for crossover games is pretty even, if I remember correctly. The West just hasn't done the best in the championship game, which needs to happen.
 
Unknownbadger said:
Love the friendly banter. Can't wait for that first conference game to come (at Kinnick).
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I as well. Yes, I like opening up big, but I also like this game down the lineup a bit to look forward to longer and let the tension mount. Talk about an important game for the West right out of the gate. I've always had a lot of respect for Wisconsin and enjoy watching them. They do it the right way. I appreciate their game philosophy. I suppose much of it has to do with Alvarez and his ties to Iowa.
 
Unknownbadger said:
It's been like that for us too. Soft, hard, soft hard, etc. I've noticed that that's the way for most of the good teams in the West. I don't know why the schedulers can't even it out a little bit better. Hell, we're playing you guys for the 5th time out of 7 at Kinnick. If it was at the Camp I probably wouldn't be wondering about their mindsets.
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That's what it feels like with Ohio State and Iowa. It seems we can play them 6 times with only 2 games at Kinnick. Seems like we always have to go there.
 
4thngoal said:
$100 says at the end of the year Nate has better numbers.
Kok is hitting his stride and has a couple horse's in the stable that I would not be at all surprised to see go on to the NFL.
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I believe I had seen where maybe 3 of the Badger OL are projected 1st round picks. That will help give the time to throw no doubt. They have all their OL back.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
I think we have to now wait on Nebraska to see if they can step up their game, If they do, then you have Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska at the top which is pretty formidable. NW can be a pest. It will take the west to win some more high profile crossover games instead of just beating up on the lower East teams. So far, I think the records for crossover games is pretty even, if I remember correctly. The West just hasn't done the best in the championship game, which needs to happen.
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Couldn't agree more with all of this. Northwestern with their new facilities isn't going anywhere... And like everything till the west knocks off the east in the championship game a few times nationally the way the conference is looked at will pretty much remain I'm afraid... That ass kicking Wisky took from OSU a few yrs back was brutal. Pretty much Wisky has been the west and they just haven't been able to get over that mountain that is OSU the last 5 yrs or so.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Couldn't agree more with all of this. Northwestern with their new facilities isn't going anywhere... And like everything till the west knocks off the east in the championship game a few times nationally the way the conference is looked at will pretty much remain I'm afraid... That ass kicking Wisky took from OSU a few yrs back was brutal. Pretty much Wisky has been the west and they just haven't been able to get over that mountain that is OSU the last 5 yrs or so.
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Agree!
 
Ree4 said:
Kind of like Wisconsin's last year? Barely top 50 and that was after the BTCC and bowl game
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I've already said I agree, and have indicated my dislike for them. It wasn't a slam on Stanley or Iowa. It was just stating a fact that Stanley will be playing a much less difficult schedule than Hornibrook will be this year when you consider that he will have to go into the homes of Iowa, Michigan, NW, PSU, and Purdue. As another pointed out, about the only difference in opponents is Michigan. However, your away games are Minni, Indiana, PSU, Purdue, and Illinois. Less daunting IMO.

It's your schedule as compared to ours that I think gives you a chance at the West title. Last year, with our schedule, we took it by beating everybody on it. We might be favored in every game this season but I wouldn't bet on winning all 9 of them or even 8 of them.

BTW the pre-season SOS rankings in 2017 were Iowa (59), Wisconsin (64). So not much difference, really.
 
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Unknownbadger said:
I've already said I agree, and have indicated my dislike for them. It wasn't a slam on Stanley or Iowa. It was just stating a fact that Stanley will be playing a much less difficult schedule than Hornibrook will be this year when you consider that he will have to go into the homes of Iowa, Michigan, NW, PSU, and Purdue. As another pointed out, about the only difference in opponents is Michigan. However, your away games are Minni, Indiana, PSU, Purdue, and Illinois. Less daunting IMO.

It's your schedule as compared to ours that I think gives you a chance at the West title. Last year, with our schedule, we took it by beating everybody on it. We might be favored in every game this season but I wouldn't bet on winning all 9 of them or even 8 of them.

BTW the pre-season SOS rankings in 2017 were Iowa (59), Wisconsin (64). So not much difference, really.
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Preseason SOS rankings? Haha. Those are inaccurate as shit and are almost meaningless considering Iowa ended with a top 5 SOS.

I'm just going back to the original comparison of Hornibrooks stats vs Stanley's from last year. Hornibrook played a much easier schedule which MAY have inflated his YPA, passer rating and TD/INT numbers compared to Stanley playing a top 5 SOS. Just my observation. With a much easier projected schedule strength logically Stanley's numbers SHOULD improve while Hornibrook's schedule gets harder (projected). Not saying Hornibrook's numbers won't improve, but his QB skills will need to improve much more than Stanley's have better stats if viewed in a QB vs QB vacuum.
 
Ree4 said:
Preseason SOS rankings? Haha. Those are inaccurate as shit and are almost meaningless considering Iowa ended with a top 5 SOS.

I'm just going back to the original comparison of Hornibrooks stats vs Stanley's from last year. Hornibrook played a much easier schedule which MAY have inflated his YPA, passer rating and TD/INT numbers compared to Stanley playing a top 5 SOS. Just my observation. With a much easier projected schedule strength logically Stanley's numbers SHOULD improve while Hornibrook's schedule gets harder (projected). Not saying Hornibrook's numbers won't improve, but his QB skills will need to improve much more than Stanley's have better stats if viewed in a QB vs QB vacuum.
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Well, you can also say that your SOS was strengthened by you playing us while ours was hurt by us playing you and anybody else other than Tosu that we played. Facts remain that Hornibrook with 2 frosh and 1 soph for wideouts completed almost 64% of his passes while Stanley completed 56% of his. There's quite a difference there.

Teams that both played: 7
In those 7 games, Stanley threw 200 times completing 108 for 1295 yards. Hornibrook threw 151 times completing 88 for 1159 yards. Stanley's completion average was 54% with a 6.48 YPA. Hornibrook on the other hand had a completion percentage of 58% and a YPA of 7.68. It was 13 to 8 TD passes in 49 more passes in Stanley's favor but we generally didn't need to and 5 to 11 in INTs by a long shot as well.
 
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Unknownbadger said:
Well, you can also say that your SOS was strengthened by you playing us while ours was hurt by us playing you and anybody else other than Tosu that we played. Facts remain that Hornibrook with 2 frosh and 1 soph for wideouts completed almost 64% of his passes while Stanley completed 56% of his. There's quite a difference there.

Teams that both played: 7
In those 7 games, Stanley threw 200 times completing 108 for 1295 yards. Hornibrook threw 151 times completing 88 for 1159 yards. Stanley's completion average was 54% with a 6.48 YPA. Hornibrook on the other hand had a completion percentage of 58% and a YPA of 7.68. It was 13 to 8 TD passes in 49 more passes in Stanley's favor but we generally didn't need to and 5 to 11 in INTs as well.
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It wasn't that huge of a disparity as Wisconsin's final ranking (Sagarin) was 7 and Iowa was 18. So while you're half right, us playing you helped for sure, you playing us didn't hurt (47th SoS).

Would you rather have 13 TDs and 5 INT with 58% or 8/11 w 64%? Iowa had a first year receiver, a freshman WR, a Senior receiver who had a broken foot for the last 1.5 yrs, SO TE and a FR TE in a brand new offense. Lets not pretend like having 2 FR and 1 SO receiver was a much bigger challenge than what Iowa faced
 
Ree4 said:
It wasn't that huge of a disparity as Wisconsin's final ranking (Sagarin) was 7 and Iowa was 18. So while you're half right, us playing you helped for sure, you playing us didn't hurt (47th SoS).

Would you rather have 13 TDs and 5 INT with 58% or 8/11 w 64%? Iowa had a first year receiver, a freshman WR, a Senior receiver who had a broken foot for the last 1.5 yrs, SO TE and a FR TE in a brand new offense. Lets not pretend like having 2 FR and 1 SO receiver was a much bigger challenge than what Iowa faced
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I'd rather win 13 instead of 8. I'm not arguing who is the better QB between Stanley or Hornibrook. I like them both and hated that Chryst couldn't persuade Stanley to flip when he became HC. I'm saying people like you evidently are unaware of Hornibrook's many strengths and are making erroneous assumptions because he threw a few too many INTs in his sophomore year and had a couple bad games (something others had more of). Something he will do better at in 2018 because it is one thing Chryst will not tolerate in an experienced QB and something that's less likely to happen with a more experienced set of receivers.

Would you like me to compare the number of TDs, the red zone success rate, 3rd down conversion rate, etc. the teams had? Things a QB has a hell of a lot to do with? I can do it for you if you like. Worth noting here Hornibrook threw 22 TD passes while in the RZ to Stanley's 16. We rushed for 19 to Iowa's 15.

I do take exception for people who characterize him as a game manager. I don't know what criteria they use. Because we successfully run the ball 63% of the time? Hell, there were games where Wilson didn't throw the ball 20 times. He actually had fewer attempts than Hornibrook. I don't think anybody would consider him a game manager.
 
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damn, tk. i should hire you as my consultant. JD just validated everything i've been saying about iowa spreading teams out to help them run AND to force man coverage AND be able to identify where a blitz might come from, if it comes ("stops the defense from squeezing the gaps.") I think David Bell would agree.
 
Ree4 said:
I thought this was what you were arguing, nm then
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We will find out who was better at the end of the season. Maybe September 22nd. I think it's fair to say that even with his 3 INTs, Hornibrook had the better game last November. But it was close. :confused:
 
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MelroseHawkins said:
I think we have to now wait on Nebraska to see if they can step up their game, If they do, then you have Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska at the top which is pretty formidable. NW can be a pest. It will take the west to win some more high profile crossover games instead of just beating up on the lower East teams. So far, I think the records for crossover games is pretty even, if I remember correctly. The West just hasn't done the best in the championship game, which needs to happen.
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I don't think Nebraska is going to get the results they are hoping for.
With Chip Kelly winning the PAC 12 in 09,10 and 11, Oregon had a ton of momentum when Frost took over as OC in 2013.
Now from a football standpoint one could say that Stanford is kind of like a b10 team.
In 13 Oregon lost to Stanford, in 14 they beat Stanford and MSU. In 15 they lost to MSU and beat Stanford.
So basically Frost is 3-2 against b10 type teams when OC of a P5 program.
In 16 as hc of UCF, Michigan destoyed them and while Michigan was pretty good that year, they lost to OSU and.......Iowa.
Oh and...
National recruiting for Oregon goes
08 30th
09 12th
10 12th
11 12th
12 14th
13 19th
14 21st
15 16th
Pretty tough to not win a few games with that.
 
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I don't know if Hornibrook or Stanley fall in the category, but, at any level, most coaches would argue that "game manager" is not an pejorative label at all.

QBs that make good decisions and keep the chains moving are the ones that win. We all like a little moxie and gun slinger in our QBs, but coaches go gray early with those guys. NW has killed us over the years with "game managers."
 
#1DieHardHawk said:
I don't know if Hornibrook or Stanley fall in the category, but, at any level, most coaches would argue that "game manager" is not an pejorative label at all.

QBs that make good decisions and keep the chains moving are the ones that win. We all like a little moxie and gun slinger in our QBs, but coaches go gray early with those guys. NW has killed us over the years with "game managers."
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This is true, but you can't be scared to let it fly now and again either.
The thing in my mind is how the great ones are able to pick you apart with 8-15 yarders, but also have some gun slinger in them.
If you get one on one on the outside and never try to exploit it, then you need some help on the edges.
 
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