Are these damning stats for Brian Ferentz?

Knight78 said:
Have you not been reading all the posts on this forum since Brian became OC stating that he's being groomed by Kirk to be the next head coach?
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Have I read them? Heck, I made several of those posts!

Yes, I think it's a done deal, barring some off-the-field scandal before then.

But my comment to you was that, if you think BF won't get special consideration, you'd have no reason to be concerned about "IF Brian becomes HC"., because his resume at this point isn't P5 HC-worthy.
 
SCHawkeye2 said:
Why do so many focus on our overall record vs our B10 record?
Yes. We usually win 7 - 8 games per year overall (thanks to an embarrassing group of cupcakes / lack of P5 non-con opponents).
But we also usually finish 4-5 or 5-4 in the B10 (against our peers).
In my mind, our objective should be to win the B10. Something we have not done since 2004. Many here seem to be content with wins against the lower tier of B10 teams + wins against MAC, Conf USA and FCS schools.
I for one am not content with that state of the program.
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Why would people look at anything other than total wins? Do you guys really think that other schools aren't padding the wins with non P5 cupcake opponents? If anything Iowa get less wins over cupcakes than other P5 teams do.

Over the last 5 years ('14-'18) Iowa has 44 wins, that is 15th most out of all P5 teams. 9 came against non P5 teams

Lets look at some other P5 schools tied with or above Iowa in total wins over the last 5 years:

Oklahoma St. 44 wins, with 11 coming vs non P5 teams
LSU 44 wins, with 14 wins coming vs non P5 teams
Utah 44 wins, with 15 coming vs non P5 teams (4 wins over BYU, so maybe an sort of P5 school??)
Penn St. 45 wins, with 14 coming vs non P5 teams
Michigan 43 wins, with 10 coming vs non P5 teams
Notre Dame 44 wins, with 13 coming vs non P5 teams
Washington 47 wins, with 11 coming vs non P5 teams

So why are people bitching that Iowa is beating actual competition (other P5 teams) while other teams are padding the wins vs non P5 teams.
 
skinnykilmer17 said:
My 2 cents:

First of all, can we agree/establish that the overwhelming majority of us are Hawk fans? We are passionate about our program. Where we differ perhaps is our expectations and the direction of the program.

DeanVogs like to point out we are tied for 15th most wins of all P5 schools over the last 5 years and similar statistics. IMO that is a meaningless statistic. He references last year's 9 win season.
We have achieved the 9 win plateau TWICE in the past 10 years.
We have finished in the final AP Top 25 poll TWICE since 2009. Last year was 25th.
We have not won or shared a conference title since 2004.
From the beginning of the Greg Davis era to present day we are 8-24 against average or better than average teams in conference play defined by .500 or better in that season.
We are 10-11 in the B1G since Brian Ferentz took over as OC 2 1/2 years ago.
Quite frankly we are a program of mediocrity and irrelevance but we reward our coaches as if we were a Top 10 program.

Once again we appear to be wasting a championship caliber defense because we have a HC who is either too incompetent or too corrupted by nepotism to assemble an effective offense against OPPONENTS THAT MATTER.
Kirk's offenses have most always been the weak link. It is remarkable if you think about the what if's. If he wasn't so risk averse and actually used his offenses as weapons, and hired competent OC's, he very well could have averaged 1-2 more wins per season. He would have buildings named after him and the overwhelming majority of people would be all in.

The ultimate goal in sports is still winning championships. In today's game you have to have powerful offenses to win championships. Even in the B1G. Look no further that Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St and even Wisconsin.
Does Kirk care about winning championships? Winning yes. Championships?
Contrast his (and Barta's) attitude with Barry Alvarez and Wisconsin for instance. There is zero doubt what motivates Wisconsin. They fire assistants in midseason. When they are winning.

What motivates Kirk these days? Championships or his son's career? Did he give Greg Davis and his horrific offenses 5 years because otherwise it would have sabotaged Brian's career path? He hired an utterly unqualified Brian to be OC. Why? Why did he hire an unqualified and unproven O-line coach? Brian's destiny is to be HC sez Kirk, Barta, Harreld, and Bruce Rastetter and his ilk - the big donors. (Did former Regent President Rastetter ever cough up his $5 million pledge to the athletic department? He was telling people from 2008 to 2016 that he had, but he hadn't. His friend Richard O. Jacobson did make good on his pledge by 2014 and that is why his name is on the athletic building. Check that out sometime. What are the possible implications you think?).

Our program seems to be corrupted by nepotism. Has Kirk put family before program? Kirk knows you can't guarantee success on the field so has he manuevered and manipulated matters with the powerbrokers to guarantee his successor? If true, is everyone OK with that? If not, let Barta know.
This is nothing new, but I would like to hear from Kirk's supporters as to what their expectations are for this program? KF?

Getting back to football, Deano's narrative is we lost the past two games due to turnovers. Familiar refrain. Lack of Execution. Player's fault. Talking points. Turnovers don't help obviously. Good offenses can overcome turnovers though and we had multiple opportunities to score that weren't affected by turnvovers, but were affected by poor coaching, poor playcalling, poor preparedess IMO.
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I'm not that cynical about the motives/intentions of Kirk Ferentz, because not a lot has changed in his style over the years, ingrained long before Brian Ferentz was even out of high school. Somewhere along the line in his walk up the coaching ladder, he concluded that this style of football is the best way to win football games. Perhaps over time, it's even been confirmed and solidified. He's won, so it's not a fallacious way to look at things, but it can have limitations.

To me, (particularly on offense) it's coaching from a half empty perspective. The bogeyman is just around the corner, waiting for something bad to happen. So that leads to an offense that is entirely risk adverse. Live to see another set of downs. However, as I see it, football cannot be made risk free, someone fumbles or forgets the snap count, or grabs onto a jersey, or goes the wrong way. It's too hard to play perfect football, even in the NFL. So, when you have the chance to make a move, step on the other team's throat, you got to take it, even if it comes up short, because you might not get that next set of downs or if you do, your opponent has scored and now you have ground to make up. Kirk Ferentz's teams generally don't do that. If anything, with Brian Ferentz as the OC, they've opened up a little. It's complicated.

I do agree that people on this board (most people) are Hawk fans, and they want the best for our favorite team, there's just different points of view about how that should be achieved.
 
deanvogs said:
other teams are padding the wins vs non P5 teams.
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Good thing we lost to N Dakota St, instead of padding our wins, huh?

But that points out that not all non-P5 teams are weak, just like not all P5 teams are strong. Boston College is playing 11 P5 games this year, but their non-con somehow included back-to-back games against powerhouses Kansas and Rutgers.
 
hawkeyes87 said:
Good thing we lost to N Dakota St, instead of padding our wins, huh?

But that points out that not all non-P5 teams are weak, just like not all P5 teams are strong. Boston College is playing 11 P5 games this year, but their non-con somehow included back-to-back games against powerhouses Kansas and Rutgers.
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I'd much rather have 45 wins and 10 over non P5 teams, but we lost that one. Either way, as I showed, Iowa isn't winning more games vs non P5 than others to get the wins totals that they have. If we were talking about the number of wins over P5 teams over the last 5 years, now Iowa is actually in that top 10 in that over the last 5 years:

1) Bama
2) Clemson
3) OSU
4) Oklahoma
5) Wisconsin
6) Georgia
7) Stanford 39
8) TCU 37
9) Washington 36
10) Iowa 35
11) Flordia St., Michigan, Oklahoma St. with 33
 
deanvogs said:
Why would people look at anything other than total wins? Do you guys really think that other schools aren't padding the wins with non P5 cupcake opponents? If anything Iowa get less wins over cupcakes than other P5 teams do.

Over the last 5 years ('14-'18) Iowa has 44 wins, that is 15th most out of all P5 teams. 9 came against non P5 teams

Lets look at some other P5 schools tied with or above Iowa in total wins over the last 5 years:

Oklahoma St. 44 wins, with 11 coming vs non P5 teams
LSU 44 wins, with 14 wins coming vs non P5 teams
Utah 44 wins, with 15 coming vs non P5 teams (4 wins over BYU, so maybe an sort of P5 school??)
Penn St. 45 wins, with 14 coming vs non P5 teams
Michigan 43 wins, with 10 coming vs non P5 teams
Notre Dame 44 wins, with 13 coming vs non P5 teams
Washington 47 wins, with 11 coming vs non P5 teams

So why are people bitching that Iowa is beating actual competition (other P5 teams) while other teams are padding the wins vs non P5 teams.
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You are missing my point entirely...
I would like Iowa to be a consistent, top tier B10 program, contending for a B10 title most years. Not a consistent 4-5 or 5-4 B 10 team with three gimmes to get to 7 or 8 wins overall.
If I could choose I would rather Iowa went 8-1 B10 / 8-4 overall, than 9-3 overall / 6-3 in the B10.
I feel too many fans overlook the mediocrity of our program in the B10 because the focus on overall wins gives a misleading perception of success.
 
hawkeyes87 said:
This is true.

But,



what does that say about the importance of this list? 7 of the 13 teams are from the terrible / soft leagues.
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LOLOLOLOL.....you really aren't worth the time. You get hit with direct evidence of what other teams and Iowa has done, and you act like that means nothing. You should be a Husker fan, your delusion would fit in nicely with that fanbase.
 
It may really piss you off, but quite frankly, Dean kicked your ass with straight up data. I am not satisfied with Iowa football by any means. But I am smart enough to understand what has been done well during KF’s tenure. But, hey. Have fun repeating the same tired list of bitches about the Hawkeyes, while you continue to ignore almost anything positive.
 
HuckFinn said:
It may really piss you off, but quite frankly, Dean kicked your ass with straight up data. I am not satisfied with Iowa football by any means. But I am smart enough to understand what has been done well during KF’s tenure. But, hey. Have fun repeating the same tired list of bitches about the Hawkeyes, while you continue to ignore almost anything positive.
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I know, right? The numbers are what they are. It is like after a loss people are hit with a stupid stick.
 
HuckFinn said:
Dean kicked your ass with straight up data.
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Straight-up data that showed win totals. Great.

Never mind what I think of those numbers, what did the rest of the country think of Iowa's wins over that time-frame? Surely if we had the 10th most P5 wins, we were considered a top-25 team, if not top-10, right?

Final rankings:
===========
2014....7 wins ( 5 P5 )......unranked
2015..12....….( 10 )……# 10 coaches / 9 AP
2016....8....…..( 7 )…...…unranked
2017....8....…..( 6 )…...…unranked
2018....9....…..( 7 )…...…unranked / 25 AP
--------------------------
……...44.....…( 35 )

Huh. Kinda seems like the national voters weren't overly impressed w/ those wins either, doesn't it?​
 
HighHardtofindConch-size_restricted.gif


Damn

:cool:
 
hawkeyes87 said:
Straight-up data that showed win totals. Great.

Never mind what I think of those numbers, what did the rest of the country think of Iowa's wins over that time-frame? Surely if we had the 10th most P5 wins, we were considered a top-25 team, if not top-10, right?

Final rankings:
===========
2014....7 wins ( 5 P5 )......unranked
2015..12....….( 10 )……# 10 coaches / 9 AP
2016....8....…..( 7 )…...…unranked
2017....8....…..( 6 )…...…unranked
2018....9....…..( 7 )…...…unranked / 25 AP
--------------------------
……...44.....…( 35 )

Huh. Kinda seems like the national voters weren't overly impressed w/ those wins either, doesn't it?​
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The way you talk we aren't even a top 25 team. So name me 25 P5 teams who have been better over the last 5 years. It will be interesting to see where you move the goalposts to now.
 
hawkeyes87 said:
Straight-up data that showed win totals. Great.

Never mind what I think of those numbers, what did the rest of the country think of Iowa's wins over that time-frame? Surely if we had the 10th most P5 wins, we were considered a top-25 team, if not top-10, right?

Final rankings:
===========
2014....7 wins ( 5 P5 )......unranked
2015..12....….( 10 )……# 10 coaches / 9 AP
2016....8....…..( 7 )…...…unranked
2017....8....…..( 6 )…...…unranked
2018....9....…..( 7 )…...…unranked / 25 AP
--------------------------
……...44.....…( 35 )

Huh. Kinda seems like the national voters weren't overly impressed w/ those wins either, doesn't it?​
Click to expand...

I don't really blame them for not being impressed. Iowa plays in a very easy division. Obviously the Wisconsin game is very tough every year but MN, NW, PUR, NEB, & ILL are always on the schedule. Even with a West championship last year NW's team lost to Akron at home. Very telling for how weak the West really is outside of Wisconsin.

Add those 5 games to a MAC and some other mid-major non conference team every year and thats 7 games a season that good programs and going to walk away from 6-1 at minimum. And in the 6 seasons since the East/West realignment Iowa has had 8 games vs bottom 3 of the conference (Maryland, Rutgers, & Indiana), one at least in each season and 2 games in 2014, 2015, & 2018.

Basically Iowa has had some very favorable schedules since 2014. Not going to impress voters.
2014, 2015, & 2018 particularly easy with Wisconsin having serious QB issues in 2015 & 2018.
 
Xerxes said:
I don't really blame them for not being impressed. Iowa plays in a very easy division. Obviously the Wisconsin game is very tough every year but MN, NW, PUR, NEB, & ILL are always on the schedule. Even with a West championship last year NW's team lost to Akron at home. Very telling for how weak the West really is outside of Wisconsin.

Add those 5 games to a MAC and some other mid-major non conference team every year and thats 7 games a season that good programs and going to walk away from 6-1 at minimum. And in the 6 seasons since the East/West realignment Iowa has had 8 games vs bottom 3 of the conference (Maryland, Rutgers, & Indiana), one at least in each season and 2 games in 2014, 2015, & 2018.

Basically Iowa has had some very favorable schedules since 2014. Not going to impress voters.
2014, 2015, & 2018 particularly easy with Wisconsin having serious QB issues in 2015 & 2018.
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LOL, this sounds like every Clown fan ever. Don't get me wrong Xerxes, I know you aren't a Clown fan, but this looks like a post CyTwins himself would write.
 
hawkeyes87 said:
Straight-up data that showed win totals. Great.

Never mind what I think of those numbers, what did the rest of the country think of Iowa's wins over that time-frame? Surely if we had the 10th most P5 wins, we were considered a top-25 team, if not top-10, right?

Final rankings:
===========
2014....7 wins ( 5 P5 )......unranked
2015..12....….( 10 )……# 10 coaches / 9 AP
2016....8....…..( 7 )…...…unranked
2017....8....…..( 6 )…...…unranked
2018....9....…..( 7 )…...…unranked / 25 AP
--------------------------
……...44.....…( 35 )

Huh. Kinda seems like the national voters weren't overly impressed w/ those wins either, doesn't it?​
Click to expand...

Oh. Now we are going to include the rankings in the conversation. Were those the rankings that overwhelmingly picked Nebraska to win the BT West? OK.
 
Xerxes said:
I don't really blame them for not being impressed. Iowa plays in a very easy division. Obviously the Wisconsin game is very tough every year but MN, NW, PUR, NEB, & ILL are always on the schedule. Even with a West championship last year NW's team lost to Akron at home. Very telling for how weak the West really is outside of Wisconsin.

Add those 5 games to a MAC and some other mid-major non conference team every year and thats 7 games a season that good programs and going to walk away from 6-1 at minimum. And in the 6 seasons since the East/West realignment Iowa has had 8 games vs bottom 3 of the conference (Maryland, Rutgers, & Indiana), one at least in each season and 2 games in 2014, 2015, & 2018.

Basically Iowa has had some very favorable schedules since 2014. Not going to impress voters.
2014, 2015, & 2018 particularly easy with Wisconsin having serious QB issues in 2015 & 2018.
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this argument is boring. It has been repeated over and over. Iowa does not pick their schedule in the BT. And, Iowa, along with all of the other P 5 ‘s, schedules cupcakes to prep for the conference season. This includes Alabama, BTW. I really do not give a shit about what the voters say. Do you?
 
Xerxes said:
Do you think the West is a tough division to play in?
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Iowa plays 10 P5 teams every year. Iowa can't control if ISU is good or not. Iowa can't control if Wisconsin is up or down. Iowa can't control who it's crossovers are. Iowa has played the top 4 from the East 7 times over the last 5 years, so it ain't like they are getting the bottom dwellers over there all the time.

The bottom line is all I hear is parsing of the number from people who have a reason to parse them to fall in line with their opinions. Like I said to @hawkeyes87, if Iowa is so bad, list off for me 20 or 25 P5 program who have had a better 5 year run than Iowa has had ('14-'18). I'd love to see what criteria you use.
 
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