trj
Well-Known Member
And that’s the difference between Iowa and Wisconsin.
Are these damning stats for Brian Ferentz?
- Thread starter skinnykilmer17
- Start date
And that’s the difference between Iowa and Wisconsin.
trj
Well-Known Member
ISU is on a roll now. Lazard is making big catches. There is no need for you to be here. Make an appearance when ISU hits a rough patch because it is coming.
The Big LeHAWKski
Well-Known Member
Answers to #1:
Because Iowa football is not a normal program...we are so abnormal with just two HCs in 40 years that instead of having to explain this oddity, Gary f-ing Barta is PROUD OF IT., as if it the secret sauce to explain our consistent dominance Yes I believe it because if you want to know what will happen in the future, just look at the recent past. Because nepotism is allowed by Gary f-ing Barta.
Answers to #2:
Because almost every son (once they get into their 30's) becomes more and more just like their Dad as they get older and mature...what we are most familiar with becomes normal Because if that was the case we would see more consistencies between Iowa's O-coordinators over the past 20 years.
PLEASE NOTE: I would be more than glad to be completely wrong about all of this pure speculation.
In the end, the one and only thing we all can agree on is that we want Iowa athletics to be consistently successful and win some damn B1G Conference Championships along the way.
GO HAWKS
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I don’t know how many times I can say it, the problems the last two weeks have been turnovers. Iowa beats Penn St if they aren’t -2 in TO and they beat Michigan is they aren’t -3 in TO. Iowa, Michigan and Penn St none of those offenses were gonna run up and down the field and put up a ton of points. It was alway going to come down to who played cleaner, and unfortunately it wasn’t Iowa in either game.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Wow, that is crazy that a program that bad can Have the 15th most wins over the last five years of all P5 schools.
Lowly Illinois put up 25 points against the same Michigan team we put up 3 on. Our offense is pathetic any way you choose to look at it. We have a Senior qb that is routinely outplayed by younger qbs we face. A sophomore qb, and a VERY young PSU team came into Kinnick and beat us handily. If it weren't for a circus catch we wouldn't have scored a td.
Maybe and that's a big maybe. What exactly have we done with the ball when we had it and didn't turn it over that makes you believe that?
How many possessions did we have it against Michigan? We only kicked one fg on one possession and gave it up 3 times. That's 4. What about all the other possessions? Same with PSU.
I'm not saying turnovers don't make it harder.
I've been screaming for days that ball/clock control style means less possessions. Points are at a premium. This turnovers are also.
But and this is big....... If you are going to play that style you had better be able to put points up in your limiting everyone's possessions.
So I say again, that's a big maybe.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Why do you say our offense and we? You’re not an Iowa fan, you couldn’t reasonably convince one single person on this site that you’re an Iowa fan.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Listen, in an even game if you win the turnover battle by 2 or more, you win the vast majority of the time. Sure if you are superior to the opponent you can overcome minus 2 in TO, but that wasn't the case with Iowa and Michigan or Iowa and Penn St. They were pretty equally matched, and if you are plus 2 in TO the opponent is not going to overcome that 90% or more of the time.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Youre correct and he's not. He disappears everytime we have a two or three game winning streak, or if he does post he reminds us that the team we just beat "didn't have a pulse."
skinnykilmer17
Well-Known Member
My 2 cents:
First of all, can we agree/establish that the overwhelming majority of us are Hawk fans? We are passionate about our program. Where we differ perhaps is our expectations and the direction of the program.
DeanVogs like to point out we are tied for 15th most wins of all P5 schools over the last 5 years and similar statistics. IMO that is a meaningless statistic. He references last year's 9 win season.
We have achieved the 9 win plateau TWICE in the past 10 years.
We have finished in the final AP Top 25 poll TWICE since 2009. Last year was 25th.
We have not won or shared a conference title since 2004.
From the beginning of the Greg Davis era to present day we are 8-24 against average or better than average teams in conference play defined by .500 or better in that season.
We are 10-11 in the B1G since Brian Ferentz took over as OC 2 1/2 years ago.
Quite frankly we are a program of mediocrity and irrelevance but we reward our coaches as if we were a Top 10 program.
Once again we appear to be wasting a championship caliber defense because we have a HC who is either too incompetent or too corrupted by nepotism to assemble an effective offense against OPPONENTS THAT MATTER.
Kirk's offenses have most always been the weak link. It is remarkable if you think about the what if's. If he wasn't so risk averse and actually used his offenses as weapons, and hired competent OC's, he very well could have averaged 1-2 more wins per season. He would have buildings named after him and the overwhelming majority of people would be all in.
The ultimate goal in sports is still winning championships. In today's game you have to have powerful offenses to win championships. Even in the B1G. Look no further that Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St and even Wisconsin.
Does Kirk care about winning championships? Winning yes. Championships?
Contrast his (and Barta's) attitude with Barry Alvarez and Wisconsin for instance. There is zero doubt what motivates Wisconsin. They fire assistants in midseason. When they are winning.
What motivates Kirk these days? Championships or his son's career? Did he give Greg Davis and his horrific offenses 5 years because otherwise it would have sabotaged Brian's career path? He hired an utterly unqualified Brian to be OC. Why? Why did he hire an unqualified and unproven O-line coach? Brian's destiny is to be HC sez Kirk, Barta, Harreld, and Bruce Rastetter and his ilk - the big donors. (Did former Regent President Rastetter ever cough up his $5 million pledge to the athletic department? He was telling people from 2008 to 2016 that he had, but he hadn't. His friend Richard O. Jacobson did make good on his pledge by 2014 and that is why his name is on the athletic building. Check that out sometime. What are the possible implications you think?).
Our program seems to be corrupted by nepotism. Has Kirk put family before program? Kirk knows you can't guarantee success on the field so has he manuevered and manipulated matters with the powerbrokers to guarantee his successor? If true, is everyone OK with that? If not, let Barta know.
This is nothing new, but I would like to hear from Kirk's supporters as to what their expectations are for this program? KF?
Getting back to football, Deano's narrative is we lost the past two games due to turnovers. Familiar refrain. Lack of Execution. Player's fault. Talking points. Turnovers don't help obviously. Good offenses can overcome turnovers though and we had multiple opportunities to score that weren't affected by turnvovers, but were affected by poor coaching, poor playcalling, poor preparedess IMO.
First of all, can we agree/establish that the overwhelming majority of us are Hawk fans? We are passionate about our program. Where we differ perhaps is our expectations and the direction of the program.
DeanVogs like to point out we are tied for 15th most wins of all P5 schools over the last 5 years and similar statistics. IMO that is a meaningless statistic. He references last year's 9 win season.
We have achieved the 9 win plateau TWICE in the past 10 years.
We have finished in the final AP Top 25 poll TWICE since 2009. Last year was 25th.
We have not won or shared a conference title since 2004.
From the beginning of the Greg Davis era to present day we are 8-24 against average or better than average teams in conference play defined by .500 or better in that season.
We are 10-11 in the B1G since Brian Ferentz took over as OC 2 1/2 years ago.
Quite frankly we are a program of mediocrity and irrelevance but we reward our coaches as if we were a Top 10 program.
Once again we appear to be wasting a championship caliber defense because we have a HC who is either too incompetent or too corrupted by nepotism to assemble an effective offense against OPPONENTS THAT MATTER.
Kirk's offenses have most always been the weak link. It is remarkable if you think about the what if's. If he wasn't so risk averse and actually used his offenses as weapons, and hired competent OC's, he very well could have averaged 1-2 more wins per season. He would have buildings named after him and the overwhelming majority of people would be all in.
The ultimate goal in sports is still winning championships. In today's game you have to have powerful offenses to win championships. Even in the B1G. Look no further that Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St and even Wisconsin.
Does Kirk care about winning championships? Winning yes. Championships?
Contrast his (and Barta's) attitude with Barry Alvarez and Wisconsin for instance. There is zero doubt what motivates Wisconsin. They fire assistants in midseason. When they are winning.
What motivates Kirk these days? Championships or his son's career? Did he give Greg Davis and his horrific offenses 5 years because otherwise it would have sabotaged Brian's career path? He hired an utterly unqualified Brian to be OC. Why? Why did he hire an unqualified and unproven O-line coach? Brian's destiny is to be HC sez Kirk, Barta, Harreld, and Bruce Rastetter and his ilk - the big donors. (Did former Regent President Rastetter ever cough up his $5 million pledge to the athletic department? He was telling people from 2008 to 2016 that he had, but he hadn't. His friend Richard O. Jacobson did make good on his pledge by 2014 and that is why his name is on the athletic building. Check that out sometime. What are the possible implications you think?).
Our program seems to be corrupted by nepotism. Has Kirk put family before program? Kirk knows you can't guarantee success on the field so has he manuevered and manipulated matters with the powerbrokers to guarantee his successor? If true, is everyone OK with that? If not, let Barta know.
This is nothing new, but I would like to hear from Kirk's supporters as to what their expectations are for this program? KF?
Getting back to football, Deano's narrative is we lost the past two games due to turnovers. Familiar refrain. Lack of Execution. Player's fault. Talking points. Turnovers don't help obviously. Good offenses can overcome turnovers though and we had multiple opportunities to score that weren't affected by turnvovers, but were affected by poor coaching, poor playcalling, poor preparedess IMO.
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deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I guess I've pretty much heard everything now. I mean our overall record as compared to all other P5 teams means NOTHING? Good offenses overcome turnovers? JFC man, one of the biggest determining factors to winning football games is winning the turnover battle. Iowa and Michigan and Penn St. are pretty equal teams, if you are minus 2 on turnovers you will lose that game 90% or more.
As far as what I expect from Iowa football:
1) Win football games, period. I'm not gonna parse them out and say well we are 1-10 vs ranked teams at night when the moon is full. A win is a win. The SEC plays 4 cupcakes a year, the ACC and Pac12 are terrible, and the Big12 is soft. If a team in the B1G is winning the 15 most football games of all P5 teams, that is GOOD, period, end of story.
2) Stay out of trouble. I don't want no Art Briles, Dantonio shit going on
3) Give me a great season every 3-5 years. Do I want them every year? Sure I do, but realistically if we can have a 10+ win year every 3-5 years that is pretty good.
"Winning Championships" is cliche now, with a 14 team conference and 2 divisions. If you wanna say win the West, Ok, I could get on board with that. Yet to try to claim that if Iowa doesn't win the West and THEN beat the East team that it is somehow a failed season is beyond dumb.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
Ironically Brian hasn't been in the industry long enough to know that putting up a decent amount of points, or what seems like any points the past two weeks, is also a decent way protecting the defense. I'm no D1 football coach, nor do I pretend to be one, but I'd venture to say that a two possession lead is easier on the defense than a 1 possession lead. Maybe I'm clueless, but I'd think it might be possible to have an elite defense and an average to slightly average offense. We all know that it's absolutely impossible to be good (statistically) on both sides of the ball. But again, what do I know.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I try to be as rational as possible, but here's my take on the Ferentz situation.
Regardless of what I think of his methodology, KF is the HC and the face of the program so success/deficiencies on either side of the ball he should ultimately be held accountable for, which I believe he is by the fan base and those of us on here. So in the grand scheme of things I don't give him a pass by any means, but any success Phil and the defense receive he has a hand in and any struggles the offense has he has equally contributed to as well. Same goes with special teams.
While I have a lot of issues with some of the things KF does and the matter in which he operates, I see a great deal of good to go along with the bad. With that said as an OC, regardless of who's philosophies he's using, Brian is only responsible for the offense. I simply don't see anything that stands out to me saying this guy is better than any other guy we could bring in to fill the position. I know it's a simple way of looking at a complex situation, but I've seen nothing from Brian as an OC that makes me think he belongs in any type of coordinator position other than his last name.
Regardless of what I think of his methodology, KF is the HC and the face of the program so success/deficiencies on either side of the ball he should ultimately be held accountable for, which I believe he is by the fan base and those of us on here. So in the grand scheme of things I don't give him a pass by any means, but any success Phil and the defense receive he has a hand in and any struggles the offense has he has equally contributed to as well. Same goes with special teams.
While I have a lot of issues with some of the things KF does and the matter in which he operates, I see a great deal of good to go along with the bad. With that said as an OC, regardless of who's philosophies he's using, Brian is only responsible for the offense. I simply don't see anything that stands out to me saying this guy is better than any other guy we could bring in to fill the position. I know it's a simple way of looking at a complex situation, but I've seen nothing from Brian as an OC that makes me think he belongs in any type of coordinator position other than his last name.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily disagreeing. But that does not translate into Brian becoming the next head coach. Kirk will have no input at that point.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Have you not been reading all the posts on this forum since Brian became OC stating that he's being groomed by Kirk to be the next head coach? (As if Kirk would have any input on who the next head coach would be)
Knight78
Well-Known Member
Your answer to #1 is dependent upon Barta still being the AD when Kirk retires. If Barta is so "PROUD OF IT" then maybe he'll give Kirk an extension. Who knows? I certainly don't and neither do you or anyone else on this forum. But I do agree with a number of people on this forum that I don't want Barta hiring the next head football coach, even if I don't believe that he'd give Brian any special consideration.
Your answer to #2 is exactly the opposite of my personal experience. I vowed to NOT do a number of things that my dad did. I also believe that Brian, if he gets any HC job will be doing things differently. After all, he coached in the Patriots' system. He has brought a few of their concepts to Iowa's offense, but I'd be shocked if he doesn't want to do more things differently. Ultimately, schemes of offense and defense and special teams are from the head coach; it's up to the coordinators and position coaches to teach those schemes to the players.
SCHawkeye2
Well-Known Member
Why do so many focus on our overall record vs our B10 record?
Yes. We usually win 7 - 8 games per year overall (thanks to an embarrassing group of cupcakes / lack of P5 non-con opponents).
But we also usually finish 4-5 or 5-4 in the B10 (against our peers).
In my mind, our objective should be to win the B10. Something we have not done since 2004. Many here seem to be content with wins against the lower tier of B10 teams + wins against MAC, Conf USA and FCS schools.
I for one am not content with that state of the program.
Yes. We usually win 7 - 8 games per year overall (thanks to an embarrassing group of cupcakes / lack of P5 non-con opponents).
But we also usually finish 4-5 or 5-4 in the B10 (against our peers).
In my mind, our objective should be to win the B10. Something we have not done since 2004. Many here seem to be content with wins against the lower tier of B10 teams + wins against MAC, Conf USA and FCS schools.
I for one am not content with that state of the program.
EstronHawkKing
Well-Known Member
I think within the next three years we'll have a new coach. I saw the post game video of Kirk's presser last Saturday night, he looked really tired, he had some serious bags under his eyes. I've noticed that in the last year or two he looks like he has really aged. His hair is almost all white now. I'm sure the stress of the job has aged him as well.
