Anybody but Keno!

ColumbusHawk

Well-Known Member
I do not understand people's infatuation with Keno Davis.

I feel sorry for the fans who think the glory years of Iowa basketball were under Tom Davis. He had a tremendous opportunity to make Iowa an elite program. But, frankly, he blew the opportunity. He took over what was probably the deepest, most talented team in the country. The program went downhill from there. In order, he won fourteen, twelve, ten and four conference games in his first four seasons.

I can just hear the screaming on these boards if the successor to Ferentz wins seven, six, five and two conference games, respectively, in his first four seasons. He will be run out of town on a rail.

There is very little difference in Tom Davis' last ten seasons and Alford's eight seasons at Iowa.

During Davis' last ten seasons, his record in conference games was 89-87. Throw in his two losses in the BTT and he was an even five hundred. In those ten seasons, Iowa never seriously challenged for the Big Ten title. The best Big Ten record was in '97, at 12-6, four games behind first place Minnesota.

Alford was 61-67 in his eight seasons at Iowa. Add in his 13-6 BTT record and he finished one game above five hundred. Alford did seriously challenge for the conference championship in '06 finishing one game behind Ohio State.

Talk about mediocrity! One game above five hundred, no Big Ten regular season championships and one sweet 16 appearance in 18 seasons. People blame Alford for this mess but the demise of Iowa basketball started under Tom Davis.

Iowa fans of my generation, mid-fifties and older, began losing interest in Iowa basketball early in the Tom Davis years. We remember Big Ten titles and final four appearances. Sure, there were a few lean years in there, but more years than not, Iowa challenged for the Big Ten championship. The loss of Raef LaFrentz sealed the deal with the people of my generation.

Jon talks about his birthright to see up-tempo basketball. Well, I cut my teeth under Ralph Miller. I feel it is my birthright to see Big Ten championships.

Also, do not put the entire blame on Bowlsby. Davis had as much or more to do with his exit than Bowlsby. In addition, the attendance decline started under Davis. However, both of those subjects would be much longer than this post.

I am not trying to defend Lickliter, but if we gave Lick ten more seasons, I seriously think he could have done what Davis did over his last ten seasons. Hell, in his fourth year, he probably would have won fifty percent more conference games than Davis did in his fourth year. While the program was not nearly as bad as Alford detractors think, it was not close to being the deepest, most talented team in the country
 
I do not understand people's infatuation with Keno Davis.

I feel sorry for the fans who think the glory years of Iowa basketball were under Tom Davis. He had a tremendous opportunity to make Iowa an elite program. But, frankly, he blew the opportunity. He took over what was probably the deepest, most talented team in the country. The program went downhill from there. In order, he won fourteen, twelve, ten and four conference games in his first four seasons.

I can just hear the screaming on these boards if the successor to Ferentz wins seven, six, five and two conference games, respectively, in his first four seasons. He will be run out of town on a rail.

There is very little difference in Tom Davis' last ten seasons and Alford's eight seasons at Iowa.

During Davis' last ten seasons, his record in conference games was 89-87. Throw in his two losses in the BTT and he was an even five hundred. In those ten seasons, Iowa never seriously challenged for the Big Ten title. The best Big Ten record was in '97, at 12-6, four games behind first place Minnesota.

Alford was 61-67 in his eight seasons at Iowa. Add in his 13-6 BTT record and he finished one game above five hundred. Alford did seriously challenge for the conference championship in '06 finishing one game behind Ohio State.

Talk about mediocrity! One game above five hundred, no Big Ten regular season championships and one sweet 16 appearance in 18 seasons. People blame Alford for this mess but the demise of Iowa basketball started under Tom Davis.

Iowa fans of my generation, mid-fifties and older, began losing interest in Iowa basketball early in the Tom Davis years. We remember Big Ten titles and final four appearances. Sure, there were a few lean years in there, but more years than not, Iowa challenged for the Big Ten championship. The loss of Raef LaFrentz sealed the deal with the people of my generation.

Jon talks about his birthright to see up-tempo basketball. Well, I cut my teeth under Ralph Miller. I feel it is my birthright to see Big Ten championships.

Also, do not put the entire blame on Bowlsby. Davis had as much or more to do with his exit than Bowlsby. In addition, the attendance decline started under Davis. However, both of those subjects would be much longer than this post.

I am not trying to defend Lickliter, but if we gave Lick ten more seasons, I seriously think he could have done what Davis did over his last ten seasons. Hell, in his fourth year, he probably would have won fifty percent more conference games than Davis did in his fourth year. While the program was not nearly as bad as Alford detractors think, it was not close to being the deepest, most talented team in the country

You can try to distort the numbers in any way you choose by pretending the first four years of Davis' tenure at Iowa didn't really happen. But if you compare the actual data, you'll see Davis' performance at Iowa was nearly identical to Lute Olson's. The glaring difference, of course, being the lack of one Big Ten title (although Davis had a 14-4 season, which was better than any B10 record Olson had) and one Final Four appearance.

Davis' overall winning percentage at Iowa (.657) was slightly better than Lute Olson's (.651) and his Big Ten winning percentage (.543) was only slightly worse than Olson's (.561).

Both Davis (4-14) and Olson had miserable Big Ten records in their fourth season (5-13).

Olson made the NCAA tournament five out of nine years at Iowa (56%) while Davis made it nine out of 13 times (69%).

Olson reached the Sweet Sixteen or better twice in nine seasons (22%) while Davis reached the Sweet Sixteen or better three times in 13 seasons (23%).

Olson lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament twice in five appearances (40%) while Davis lost zero times in the first round in nine appearances (0%).
 
Well said ColumbusHawk. I could not agree with you more.

Tom Davis's system works well against teams that are not familiar with it. That is probably, why he always won first round games in the NCAA Tournament. In the Big Ten, against teams that were familiar with his system, his up-tempo style of play was marginalized. Generally, he beat the teams with less talent, and lost to the teams with better athletes.

The great Iowa teams of the past had great players. The Davis teams were no exception, his greatest success was in his early days with Raveling's players. Had Davis been able to recruit Raef LaFrentz, or keep Ricky Davis around for another year or two, he probably could have gone to a Final Four.

We need a coach who can recruit, first and foremost. To win Big Ten titles, a team needs at least a couple of NBA bound players. I don't think there are many exceptions. Maybe a coaching genius, like Bob Knight in his prime, could consistently beat more talented teams. But those kind of coaches are few, and far between. And we will never know, but perhaps Raveling would have had the same amount of success as Mr. Davis in 1987 had he stayed at Iowa.

People have said it's hard to recruit to Iowa, so we need a coach with a gimmick. I disagree. That may be true in football, but in basketball it takes only a few great players. Ralph Miller, Lute Olsen and George Raveling were able to bring great players to Iowa City. It can be done again.
 
Keno is not the solution for Iowa. I sincerely hope Barta is smart enough to look elsewhere.


You lose some credibility with regards when judging coaches when you think Lickliter given time would right the ship. Lick was HORRIBLE and the program was only sinking LOWER. I'm glad you aren't the AD...
 
Spank....do you have your list of coaches ready yet?

I put it out on Twitter last night.
No all coaches are created the same. I'd love to have an experienced coach come into Iowa. I am willing to listen to a big time assistant coming in (I have a couple on my list).

1. Pearl
The rest are in no particular order...

Gregory
Turgeon
Collins
Drew

Wildcard: Masiello
 
You lose some credibility with regards when judging coaches when you think Lickliter given time would right the ship. Lick was HORRIBLE and the program was only sinking LOWER. I'm glad you aren't the AD...

I'm sure you can somehow prove the program was going to sink lower.
 
I'm sure you can somehow prove the program was going to sink lower.

Spank: No offense, but your undying support for the Lickliter regime certainly casts doubt on your ability to evaluate coaching talent for this level.

Also, you often disparage Keno for being too "unproven" for the Iowa job, yet your top 5 list includes a mid-major coach and a 35-year-old who has never been a head coach at any level.
 
Spank: No offense, but your undying support for the Lickliter regime certainly casts doubt on your ability to evaluate coaching talent for this level.

Also, you often disparage Keno for being too "unproven" for the Iowa job, yet your top 5 list includes a mid-major coach and a 35-year-old who has never been a head coach at any level.

I'm not even that big of a Lickliter supporter, honestly. I said one more year, evaluate mid-season. I just call out those that say we were going nowhere. That's not exactly true. We had some bad seasons, but the class coming in was going to help and the current players would finally be upperclassmen in the system. I think some people over-analyze my thoughts on Coach Lickliter.

As far as unproven, it goes back to not all coaches being equal. Collins has been under Coach K for a LONG, long time. He is his protege.

Gregory has done great stuff at Dayton and has been an assistant at Mich St in two stints, once under Jud and once under Izzo. He has done the apprenticeship and the HC gig.
 
I'm not even that big of a Lickliter supporter, honestly. I said one more year, evaluate mid-season. I just call out those that say we were going nowhere. That's not exactly true. We had some bad seasons, but the class coming in was going to help and the current players would finally be upperclassmen in the system. I think some people over-analyze my thoughts on Coach Lickliter.

As far as unproven, it goes back to not all coaches being equal. Collins has been under Coach K for a LONG, long time. He is his protege.

Gregory has done great stuff at Dayton and has been an assistant at Mich St in two stints, once under Jud and once under Izzo. He has done the apprenticeship and the HC gig.

Yeah, but Keno learned at the feet of your top guy, Pearl.

Just admit you're not being consistent and we can call it good.
 
Year 4 of Lickliter would have been slightly better than year 3, which, in all fairness, is pretty effing awful........screw "improvement" when it gets you nowhere...
 
Collins has been under Coach K for a LONG, long time. He is his protege.

Although egotistical in my own right I have no problems admitting when I am wrong, which is far too often. Mark this post down because if he does well where ever I will need to eat some serious crow.

Any Duke assistant just gives me the creeps. I just do not think that being tutored under a program of the magnitude and luxuries of Duke is good preparation for life at a program like Iowa. There has not been a great track record to my knowledge for ex-Duke Coach K assistants just like there has not been a great track record for ex-Bob Knight assistants minus Coach K.

Again, it's very possible I just can't lift my anti-Duke filter.
 
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You are right to a certain extent, Dukie assistants haven't done well away from their nest. Although, Collins has been waiting around for awhile.
 
I like your list, but am surprised you don't list Barbee. I know some people are scared off by the fact he is a Calipari protege. I guess I assume Barta will do his due diligence and if he gets by that, he seems like an up and comer. UTEP has improved every year since he has been there.
 
Year 4 of Lickliter would have been slightly better than year 3, which, in all fairness, is pretty effing awful........screw "improvement" when it gets you nowhere...
I do agree with this, but my mindset was... Lickliter is in year 3 of a 7 year contract, at least give him until the end of 4. It's not a big deal either way, but if you are going to oust him, you had better bring someone better in. I have an EXTREMELY hard time justifying that Keno is better than Lickliter. Perhaps on par, but not better. And if that's the case, why break up a program to do that. I am just expecting Barta to go past someone of Keno's abilities.
 

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