+/- ?

[BigD]

I get what you are saying about not needing a gimmick if you have better players. But isn't finding a gimmick that helps you win considered good coaching?

Yes and no. There may be times when you have to go to a gimmick when you've lost a Senior laden team and have an inexperienced and young team. However if it becomes the standard because of mediocre recruiting then you have a problem. That falls totally on the coaching staff. Every season football or basketball the Iowa faithful try to imagine in their hearts these great players that are coming into the respective programs. Recruiting experts are constantly putting our recruiting classes in the bottom third of the conference. That's why I said if you can land in at least the top six or seven in the conference in recruiting then you have a good chance of competing head to head.

I think this run and gun attack may be running our players into the ground by the end of the season. That could explain the late season collapses two out of last three seasons. Fran is a good coach but until he starts landing a high quality point guard and develop a serious post position offensive threat then it's just going to be the same ole same ole. Cook could possibly be that guy offensively but the team lacks the defensive shot blocking intimidator who owns the the defensive glass. What can you say about the point guard position. This has been lacking since Fran got here. Moss has shown flashes of it. I really like how he can finish at the rim and take contact and score. That's a great quality for a point guard. His outside shot is lacking however and he sometimes tries to force things and gets hit with charging calls.

Fran is a tremendous improvement over Lickliter, however we may have seen as good as it's going to get. His most recent recruiting classes appear that there maybe improvement there. I would say give him three more seasons tops and if things haven't changed and improved then I am afraid Iowa maybe looking for a new head coach. Even as I say that I have to remind myself of the mindset of the people at Iowa that make these decisions............. exhale..........sigh.

I am hoping that one of these players will come out from what we have and excel and pull this team up to a level we haven't reached before. Cook APPEARS to be a step in the right direction but he can't do alone. I hate to think of next year's team without Joc's offensive threat. Uhl looked very promising as a freshman and I cannot explain what happened there. I also think of Gesell's freshman year during the first half of the season as he looked like he was going to be very special but by the end of his freshman year he appeared that he would be a good game manager but not a super star.

As usual hoping for the best but not expecting it. The life of a HAWKEYE fan. On the football side of things after eighteen years does anyone ever expect any thing to change? Are the results acceptable? Not to me but apparently to the powers that be it's just fine after all the bottom line is REVENUE and as long as that's good NOTHING is going to change.

 

[PCHawk]

Yes and no. There may be times when you have to go to a gimmick when you've lost a Senior laden team and have an inexperienced and young team. However if it becomes the standard because of mediocre recruiting then you have a problem. That falls totally on the coaching staff. Every season football or basketball the Iowa faithful try to imagine in their hearts these great players that are coming into the respective programs. Recruiting experts are constantly putting our recruiting classes in the bottom third of the conference. That's why I said if you can land in at least the top six or seven in the conference in recruiting then you have a good chance of competing head to head.

I think this run and gun attack may be running our players into the ground by the end of the season. That could explain the late season collapses two out of last three seasons. Fran is a good coach but until he starts landing a high quality point guard and develop a serious post position offensive threat then it's just going to be the same ole same ole. Cook could possibly be that guy offensively but the team lacks the defensive shot blocking intimidator who owns the the defensive glass. What can you say about the point guard position. This has been lacking since Fran got here. Moss has shown flashes of it. I really like how he can finish at the rim and take contact and score. That's a great quality for a point guard. His outside shot is lacking however and he sometimes tries to force things and gets hit with charging calls.

Fran is a tremendous improvement over Lickliter, however we may have seen as good as it's going to get. His most recent recruiting classes appear that there maybe improvement there. I would say give him three more seasons tops and if things haven't changed and improved then I am afraid Iowa maybe looking for a new head coach. Even as I say that I have to remind myself of the mindset of the people at Iowa that make these decisions............. exhale..........sigh.

I am hoping that one of these players will come out from what we have and excel and pull this team up to a level we haven't reached before. Cook APPEARS to be a step in the right direction but he can't do alone. I hate to think of next year's team without Joc's offensive threat. Uhl looked very promising as a freshman and I cannot explain what happened there. I also think of Gesell's freshman year during the first half of the season as he looked like he was going to be very special but by the end of his freshman year he appeared that he would be a good game manager but not a super star.

As usual hoping for the best but not expecting it. The life of a HAWKEYE fan. On the football side of things after eighteen years does anyone ever expect any thing to change? Are the results acceptable? Not to me but apparently to the powers that be it's just fine after all the bottom line is REVENUE and as long as that's good NOTHING is going to change.

Not too many programs fire a good coach in hopes of finding a great coach. I don't know what to tell anyone who thinks Fran isn't at least a good coach. All the things you are saying make it sound like you have a really short memory because this year looks nothing like the last 3 years. Yet at the same time, it looks like we are set up to have a better last 3 years than we did the previously 3 years. The past was pretty darn good and the future looks really good, yet people already only remember this year.

 

[BigD]

Not too many programs fire a good coach in hopes of finding a great coach. I don't know what to tell anyone who thinks Fran isn't at least a good coach. All the things you are saying make it sound like you have a really short memory because this year looks nothing like the last 3 years. Yet at the same time, it looks like we are set up to have a better last 3 years than we did the previously 3 years. The past was pretty darn good and the future looks really good, yet people already only remember this year.

I said he was a good coach. He did a great job of taken us out of the Lickliter graveyard and I appreciate that.

I would like him to get further along in the big ten tournament and the NCAA's. Let's thinks about what I said. If he doesn't do better in the next three years then Iowa MAY need to pursue getting another coach. At that point he would have been here TEN years. Never even gotten to the third round of a big ten tournament, never gotten past the second round of the NCAA tournament, and never won a conference title. I don't know about you but to me that is unacceptable and worthy of a coaching change. It is the definition of mediocrity.

 

[PCHawk]

I said he was a good coach. He did a great job of taken us out of the Lickliter graveyard and I appreciate that.

I would like him to get further along in the big ten tournament and the NCAA's. Let's thinks about what I said. If he doesn't do better in the next three years then Iowa MAY need to pursue getting another coach. At that point he would have been here TEN years. Never even gotten to the third round of a big ten tournament, never gotten past the second round of the NCAA tournament, and never won a conference title. I don't know about you but to me that is unacceptable and worthy of a coaching change. It is the definition of mediocrity.

What Fran has done the last 3 years is at least one or two steps above mediocrity. If Fran duplicates the last 3 years starting next year, that would be 4 times finishing tied for 3rd in the conference out of 7 years, 6 tournament appearances in 7 years, and probably top 3 or so in total conference wins over a 7 year span. Those stats would put him towards the top in greatest Iowa coaches ever.

If he does that but also never gets us to the sweet 16, I understand people will want more. But there is no way he gets canned at Iowa with a resume like that. He would get at least 5 more years after that before he hit the "getting old so just as well more on now" stage.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. 95% of programs don't fire good coaches just to blindly hope to find a great coach. We did it with Davis, but there were two good reasons. It was pretty obvious we were going nowhere but down hill with recruiting was one reason. The other is we had as close to a sure bet for a replacement as you can get for a place like Iowa.

 

[Seth53]

Not too many programs fire a good coach in hopes of finding a great coach. I don't know what to tell anyone who thinks Fran isn't at least a good coach. All the things you are saying make it sound like you have a really short memory because this year looks nothing like the last 3 years. Yet at the same time, it looks like we are set up to have a better last 3 years than we did the previously 3 years. The past was pretty darn good and the future looks really good, yet people already only remember this year.

Tom Davis and Steve Alford would disagree....oops....not so great!

 

[PCHawk]

Tom Davis and Steve Alford would disagree....oops....not so great!

Alford was a mutual parting not related to on court success as far as I've ever heard. Davis was a good coach, but all the evidence was pointing to him slowly taking the team in the wrong direction.

 

[BigD]

Alford was a mutual parting not related to on court success as far as I've ever heard. Davis was a good coach, but all the evidence was pointing to him slowly taking the team in the wrong direction.

Really? His last season as Iowa Coach he took his players to a sweet 16 he also was one missed shot by Brad Lohaus from going to a final four. Lute Olsen actually made it to a final four. When you have to talk about finishing tied for third place in your conference that's just pretty pathetic.

Don't get me wrong as I obviously believe there are possibilities for Fran to break through and raise the ceiling as I did say give him three more years to see if he can take us up to a new level. I did say "IF" he doesn't do better within the next three years. I didn't say he couldn't, in fact I hope he does. No one wants it more than I do. If he doesn't your saying tied for third place in the conference in a ten year period is good enough for you???? Don't expect much do you?

 

[PCHawk]

Really? His last season as Iowa Coach he took his players to a sweet 16 he also was one missed shot by Brad Lohaus from going to a final four. Lute Olsen actually made it to a final four. When you have to talk about finishing tied for third place in your conference that's just pretty pathetic.

Don't get me wrong as I obviously believe there are possibilities for Fran to break through and raise the ceiling as I did say give him three more years to see if he can take us up to a new level. I did say "IF" he doesn't do better within the next three years. I didn't say he couldn't, in fact I hope he does. No one wants it more than I do. If he doesn't your saying tied for third place in the conference in a ten year period is good enough for you???? Don't expect much do you?

Davis never did much after he had his own recruits. Nothing more than Fran anyway.

I would love to hire the next Bo Ryan. Hell maybe we already have. I'm just saying you don't fire a coach who gets 3rd in the Big 10. That would be stupid. You say you hope he gets to the next level or he should be gone. But if he makes the sweet 16, will you still say he needs to get to the next level or he should be gone? Then if he gets to the next level again, will you say we should want more so we should fire him and bring in a coach who gets us final 4s?

I swear, some fans don't realize there are 100 other schools just as capable as Iowa who want the next level too. Fran took us about 20 levels up from where we were. When a fan says he wants one more level or the coach should be fired, it makes me assume he will never be satisfied. It's like 20 levels up isn't acceptable, but 21 is.

 

[Joshbrown]

Davis never did much after he had his own recruits. Nothing more than Fran anyway.

I would love to hire the next Bo Ryan. Hell maybe we already have. I'm just saying you don't fire a coach who gets 3rd in the Big 10. That would be stupid. You say you hope he gets to the next level or he should be gone. But if he makes the sweet 16, will you still say he needs to get to the next level or he should be gone? Then if he gets to the next level again, will you say we should want more so we should fire him and bring in a coach who gets us final 4s?

I swear, some fans don't realize there are 100 other schools just as capable as Iowa who want the next level too. Fran took us about 20 levels up from where we were. When a fan says he wants one more level or the coach should be fired, it makes me assume he will never be satisfied. It's like 20 levels up isn't acceptable, but 21 is.

Not arguing for Fran to be fired but IIRC Davis never lost a first round game and made the sweet 16 with his own kids. That doesn't make him Lute but it also doesn't make him Fran.

 

[PCHawk]

Not arguing for Fran to be fired but IIRC Davis never lost a first round game and made the sweet 16 with his own kids. That doesn't make him Lute but it also doesn't make him Fran.

But how many years was he at Iowa? If Fran is at Iowa for that many years and never makes the sweet 16 I will be surprised. The never losing a first round game is an impressive stat, but it's also kinda random more than anything. If he was always a 2 or 3 seed, that stat would mean more because it would show that he got his team into a good position during the season. But most of his first round games were coin flips that he happened to win.

 

[BigD]

What Fran has done the last 3 years is at least one or two steps above mediocrity. If Fran duplicates the last 3 years starting next year, that would be 4 times finishing tied for 3rd in the conference out of 7 years, 6 tournament appearances in 7 years, and probably top 3 or so in total conference wins over a 7 year span. Those stats would put him towards the top in greatest Iowa coaches ever.

If he does that but also never gets us to the sweet 16, I understand people will want more. But there is no way he gets canned at Iowa with a resume like that. He would get at least 5 more years after that before he hit the "getting old so just as well more on now" stage.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. 95% of programs don't fire good coaches just to blindly hope to find a great coach. We did it with Davis, but there were two good reasons. It was pretty obvious we were going nowhere but down hill with recruiting was one reason. The other is we had as close to a sure bet for a replacement as you can get for a place like Iowa.

I'm not asking for a national championship just a little improvement and a little more competitiveness. If he shows progress in the next three years I'm ok with a contract extension. I would except a seeet sixteen bid as grounds for a contract extension. That definitely would be an improvement. Just getting th the championship round of the Big Ten Tournament would be a significant improvement. However repeated defeats in the first or second round of the Big Ten tournament to me is not acceptable.

By the way last night's victory over Michigan did not shock me in the least. I predicted a rollercoaster ride before season even started. I also asked forum posters to be patient with rushing to quick judgement on Bohannon this year as he is a freshman. I reminded everyone that one of his brothers said the Jordan was the best basketball player out of all his brothers.

I also have said the Moss looks better as a freshman than Ronnie Lester did as a freshman. Ronnie is an all time Iowa GREAT and maybe the best ever. Does that sound like someone who is down on Fran? I was just in a reflective mood and giving what I felt was an honest assessment looking three years ahead. I am not calling for Frans head right now.

I am concerned about next season after Joc is gone. He is the engine to this team. We will be in another situation where someone or several players will have to excel for this team to be competitive. I got a good laugh at what the announcer said during the Michigan game. He said "there our athletes
and then there are Joc's.

At some point we can't be making up excuses for the program. "We lost Joc last season to graduation." "Cook is going pro after his sophmore year." "Someone got injured." These things happen to all the teams, but yet they manage to carry on and compete. Hey, what can I say I am burned out on Kirky boy and the repeated rationalizations of why we can't take chances on a new coach. That is a fan base that has accepted mediocrity over the fear of possibly become a bottom dweller in the conference.

Not me, I say ROLL THE DAMN DICE and live with the consequences. How many eagles are down in the chicken pen afraid to even try to spread their wings and fly but will just remain there because of fear? Anyone who has been involved in sales or read motivation books or been in motivation seminars knows what I am saying.

 

[Tierney]

They are undefeated in 2017 so they are doing pretty good. I think the players and the competition are a lot tougher today than when Olson coached at Iowa. The high school players are a lot better. Fran has done a good job, and he has a good recruiting class coming in next year. It takes patience to build a program.

 

[BigD]

They are undefeated in 2017 so they are doing pretty good. I think the players and the competition are a lot tougher today than when Olson coached at Iowa. The high school players are a lot better. Fran has done a good job, and he has a good recruiting class coming in next year. It takes patience to build a program.

The incoming class does look like it has potential but that is purely speculation until they play at the college level. We all know that is true. I am hoping for the best.

I see ele Kirk had showed his true coaching abilities today. He doesn't have to worry though as he has thousands of chickenHAWKS that have his back.

 

[phdsvp]

Fran is probably the best sports coach at the University of Iowa. It seems like a pretty low bar lately, but he is WAY down the list of things I'm concerned about if I'm the Iowa AD.

 

[PCHawk]

Fran is probably the best sports coach at the University of Iowa. It seems like a pretty low bar lately, but he is WAY down the list of things I'm concerned about if I'm the Iowa AD.

I agree. I would say over the last 4 years, we have been pretty damn good. But it's not just that. We have been a lot closer to being better than pretty good than we were to being worse than pretty good. This young group looks to have a higher ceiling than the last one.

 

[BigD]

I agree. I would say over the last 4 years, we have been pretty damn good. But it's not just that. We have been a lot closer to being better than pretty good than we were to being worse than pretty good. This young group looks to have a higher ceiling than the last one.

I agree with your sentiment here. I am just looking a head three years and saying this is where we need to be. I just don't want us to slip into the football way of thinking. "We are young this year, this year we don't have Joc anymore, we lost Cook to the NBA draft, the recruiting looks good going forward." We just need to be aware that we aren't making excuses for every season, that's all I am saying.

Oh one more comment on what another poster said about the players weren't as good back in Lute Olsen's era as they are now. I think people like magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Micheal Jordan would beg to differ on that. It wasn't that long ago that Lute retired.

 

[PCHawk]

I agree with your sentiment here. I am just looking a head three years and saying this is where we need to be. I just don't want us to slip into the football way of thinking. "We are young this year, this year we don't have Joc anymore, we lost Cook to the NBA draft, the recruiting looks good going forward." We just need to be aware that we aren't making excuses for every season, that's all I am saying.

Oh one more comment on what another poster said about the players weren't as good back in Lute Olsen's era as they are now. I think people like magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Micheal Jordan would beg to differ on that. It wasn't that long ago that Lute retired.

We need Jok bad this year but I don't think we will miss him all that much next year. No more than we missed Marble and White anyway. I don't think it will be as bad as missing Uthoff this year.

 

[NikeHawk21]

We need Jok bad this year but I don't think we will miss him all that much next year. No more than we missed Marble and White anyway. I don't think it will be as bad as missing Uthoff this year.

Exactly. We've lost talent the last three years to the NBA and overseas, and we've still continued to be pretty good. This year we are extremely young that can't really be questioned. Losing Jok will hurt, but I'm guessing our defense will be better next year.

 

[BigD]

Exactly. We've lost talent the last three years to the NBA and overseas, and we've still continued to be pretty good. This year we are extremely young that can't really be questioned. Losing Jok will hurt, but I'm guessing our defense will be better next year.

Is that an indirect way of saying defense is a weak spot for Joc or are you thinking throughout the rest of this season the young guys will get better?

 

[BigD]

We need Jok bad this year but I don't think we will miss him all that much next year. No more than we missed Marble and White anyway. I don't think it will be as bad as missing Uthoff this year.

You can't be serious? We won't miss at all the leading scorer in the Big Ten Conference? Put down those cookies you ordered from Colorado.