8 Players Sue for $20 Million

My guess is that the Athletic Dept thought that they checked enough boxes that they could put this behind them. The problem is they don't get to decide if it is enough. Most posters are only discussing the financial motivations of the disgruntled ex-players but don't forget that 10 million was for other players AND they demanded that Barta, and both Kirk and Brian Ferentz be fired. This case will wind its way through the courts and be settled one way or the other. Even if the ex-players totally lose this case, the end result will be a coaching staff that will be even more aware of the importance of treating players fairly and with respect.
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
And not sure I completely see your link between Barta and football profitability. Barta does what - turns on the spigot where the $60 million a year from the Big Ten Network comes pouring out?.
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I never said there was a link between GB and the football program's profitability (revenue is probably a better word). You were the one who chastised GB cutting sports, and I merely said he did the right thing.

No connection to football revenue was implied...
 
Sure, fair enough. But you mentioned football's profitability as necessary to sustain non-revenue sports. And my point is that I don't see the skills required to turn on a spigot that pumps in $60 million from the Big Ten Network, or the skills needed to cut programs. I'm not chastising Barta for cutting sports - but I'm saying it took no skill to cut programs as soon as they faced financial challenges. I would have been far more impressed if he would have shown some creativity, work ethic, and maneuvering to come up with a solution. Which gets back to Rob's point of what does he do for a living?
 
With what happened to Fleming I wonder about. He says KF rebuffed his attempts to transfer a couple times before he finally did. How does that work exactly? Initially I'm sure it's verbally but then at what point is it in writing? If KF threw his transfer papers in the fireplace then that's one thing. But I doubt that's how this went down. I mean how many times do kids come in bring up transfering and coaches talk em into staying and sticking it out? I imagine many many many times over all over the country. If Fleming never put any formal transfer requests on paper then anything verbal would be pretty tough to go over in court I would think. It turns into a he said he said thing. KF can't force anyone to stay anymore then anyone else and that's how he'll talk about that.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
With what happened to Fleming I wonder about. He says KF rebuffed his attempts to transfer a couple times before he finally did. How does that work exactly? Initially I'm sure it's verbally but then at what point is it in writing? If KF threw his transfer papers in the fireplace then that's one thing. But I doubt that's how this went down. I mean how many times do kids come in bring up transfering and coaches talk em into staying and sticking it out? I imagine many many many times over all over the country. If Fleming never put any formal transfer requests on paper then anything verbal would be pretty tough to go over in court I would think. It turns into a he said he said thing. KF can't force anyone to stay anymore then anyone else and that's how he'll talk about that.
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One thing I'm fairly certain of is that Kerck is pretty intimidating to players. I've heard it mentioned by several of them. Some of those guys have said they maybe only talked to him once or twice the entire 5 years they were in the program. From the sounds of it going to talk to him was like walking into Don Vito's office to pay tribute and kiss his ring.

The reason I mention it is that even though Kurk might not have been able to actually prevent the transfer, those kids know he's one of the most, if not the most connected college coach in the nation, and Fredo (Brian for those of you with no sense of humor) is too. They know if they piss of the godfathers off it could be the last time they strap on D-1 cleats. I don't like Wadley like I used to because I think he's being a snake in regards to this lawsuit, but Fredo telling NFL scouts to avoid him is absolutely 100% plausible. When guys like Belichick talk about how much respect and trust they have in Curt Ferentz, NFL folks listen whether we want to believe that happens or not.
 
Fryowa said:
One thing I'm fairly certain of is that Kerck is pretty intimidating to players. I've heard it mentioned by several of them. Some of those guys have said they maybe only talked to him once or twice the entire 5 years they were in the program. From the sounds of it going to talk to him was like walking into Don Vito's office to pay tribute and kiss his ring.

The reason I mention it is that even though Kurk might not have been able to actually prevent the transfer, those kids know he's one of the most, if not the most connected college coach in the nation, and Fredo (Brian for those of you with no sense of humor) is too. They know if they piss of the godfathers off it could be the last time they strap on D-1 cleats. I don't like Wadley like I used to because I think he's being a snake in regards to this lawsuit, but Fredo telling NFL scouts to avoid him is absolutely 100% plausible. When guys like Belichick talk about how much respect and trust they have in Curt Ferentz, NFL folks listen whether we want to believe that happens or not.
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And yeah I'm sure in some cases that's how it may be. (depending on the player importance to the program) We've had bunch of QBs transfer out hell JR went to Michigan during a season we almost coulda played them in BIG championship game. I don't remember KF putting up any road blocks for him to do that.(yeah he's a white QB high profile position not apples to apples) but if KF didn't want to play against him he sure didn't try. I'd be curious to hear more stories about kids who transfered or wanted to and didn't maybe.

But for the purposes of this trial with a jury of folks not in tune with the program and how they operate will a lawyer take the time or even be able to express all that for context to the situation? KF could lay out what I just said and say prove something different...
 
Fryowa said:
I don't like Wadley like I used to because I think he's being a snake in regards to this lawsuit, but Fredo telling NFL scouts to avoid him is absolutely 100% plausible.
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Sir Randolph Moss was kicked out of Florida State in the Bowden era and pissed hot in a drug test. Baltimorenthal got tied up in a murder case. Double homicide. Mike Vick ran Bad Newz Kennels. Eli Manning pouted like a little bitch when he got drafted by the Chargers. I believe the youngsters these days have a saying "ball don't lie." If a kid can ball, he's gonna find the NFL. Period. I don't recall a single player from Iowa who hasn't made the League where I've thought "man, that guy is a NFL player." These guys get tryouts and shit and they have representation, if they can ball, they will find the League. Just as an example, and maybe this is a bad one because I don't watch NFL, but I think Lazard didn't even get drafted and stuck it out on the scrap heap for awhile and got a shot when injuries hit. Lazard's college tape and measurables are materially better, like not even same galaxy, as the dudes from Iowa who aren't sticking in the NFL and I think he had to languish on a practice squad for a year or two before he even got a shot.

Practice squad is like the worst god damned job in the world. You get your ass kicked by NFL talent 5 days a week for very little money. But even the practice squad is hard as shit to get onto and I just can't see someone who has a beef with Kirk Ferentz being the kind of guy who is gonna grind a year on a practice squad until someone shreds an ACL or gets one too many concussions and they have a shot to maybe be the third string guy or whatever.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
I'd be curious to hear more stories about kids who transfered or wanted to and didn't maybe.
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Some of these guys probably get a heart to heart from Kirk that is purely in Kirk's self interest because he's worried about depth. He might lie and say a guy is slated as the starter next year (and maybe that is true until spring ball or whatever). That shit happens in college sports. The worst are the basketball coaches who talk a kid out of the draft.
 
Discipline and accountability are a big part of the Iowa Culture...KF strives that in everything these kids do...you need to be trusted. When that is a huge part of the foundation...there are going to be situations where less talented players may see the field because of consistency of performance. That's hard for a more talented kid to take. We have all seen it and why, as fans, we say...why isn't Derrick Mitchell playing more...dude's a beast...etc, etc.

For a talented black player, I could see how it could be seen as a double standard...I have to do more than white players. I've often thought coaches sometimes see greater potential in talented players, who may lack focus or consistency...they therefore ride them...to get them to realize their full potential. Now, with everything going on, that process could easily be misconstrued.

I'm not saying there weren't issues in the Iowa program or covering for anyone. KF made huge mistakes in not knowing how his strength coach went about his business and was perceived by the black players. KF should have known and done more. They also should have done more in 2018 when it was brought to the forefront.
 
okeefe4prez said:
Lazard's college tape
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I had to go dig up his best highlight from college..

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WinOneThisCentury said:
Discipline and accountability are a big part of the Iowa Culture...KF strives that in everything these kids do...you need to be trusted. When that is a huge part of the foundation...there are going to be situations where less talented players may see the field because of consistency of performance.
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We had a new person start a few weeks ago. As is my ritual, I had her watch Top Gun because I like to liberally quote it in work situations. She said "I don't think I would want Maverick as my wing man. He can't be trusted. I think Iceman is the good guy in the movie." I was, and frankly still am, flabbergasted. Maverick is probably the best pilot in the history of the Navy. But her point is if you can't count on Maverick to be where you expect him to be when you expect him to be there, you're better off flying with the inferior Iceman. Not a take I agree with, but I get the logic.

I think guys in the heat of the moment can't understand this. A guy might be a step faster and have a better juke move than the guy ahead of him and immediately wonder why he isn't starting, when he's just blind to the fact that he can't pick up blocks or read the blitz to make the call to peel off and wait for a pass in the flat. The playbook is huge and there are a ton of variables in it and if you don't have the permutations down pat and the guy ahead of you does, but is otherwise not as good as you, you ain't playing.

 
okeefe4prez said:
We had a new person start a few weeks ago. As is my ritual, I had her watch Top Gun because I like to liberally quote it in work situations. She said "I don't think I would want Maverick as my wing man. He can't be trusted. I think Iceman is the good guy in the movie." I was, and frankly still am, flabbergasted. Maverick is probably the best pilot in the history of the Navy. But her point is if you can't count on Maverick to be where you expect him to be when you expect him to be there, you're better off flying with the inferior Iceman. Not a take I agree with, but I get the logic.

I think guys in the heat of the moment can't understand this. A guy might be a step faster and have a better juke move than the guy ahead of him and immediately wonder why he isn't starting, when he's just blind to the fact that he can't pick up blocks or read the blitz to make the call to peel off and wait for a pass in the flat. The playbook is huge and there are a ton of variables in it and if you don't have the permutations down pat and the guy ahead of you does, but is otherwise not as good as you, you ain't playing.

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Championships are built on talent, chemistry, leadership and the collective passion to achieve a common goal. Chemistry is a HUGE part of it. Look at any NBA team. Current Lakers. 90's Bulls. Great to have superstars but the "other guys" finish the job, round out the team, do the dirty work, show up, buy in.....

The Hawks only lack the high end talent during the KF era....IMO

Anyone who disagrees.....so be it lol
 
okeefe4prez said:
We had a new person start a few weeks ago. As is my ritual, I had her watch Top Gun because I like to liberally quote it in work situations. She said "I don't think I would want Maverick as my wing man. He can't be trusted. I think Iceman is the good guy in the movie." I was, and frankly still am, flabbergasted. Maverick is probably the best pilot in the history of the Navy. But her point is if you can't count on Maverick to be where you expect him to be when you expect him to be there, you're better off flying with the inferior Iceman. Not a take I agree with, but I get the logic.

I think guys in the heat of the moment can't understand this. A guy might be a step faster and have a better juke move than the guy ahead of him and immediately wonder why he isn't starting, when he's just blind to the fact that he can't pick up blocks or read the blitz to make the call to peel off and wait for a pass in the flat. The playbook is huge and there are a ton of variables in it and if you don't have the permutations down pat and the guy ahead of you does, but is otherwise not as good as you, you ain't playing.

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You tell that chick that Cougar and Merlin would be dead if not for Maverick. Zero chance Iceman brings 'em back to the boat alive.
 
okeefe4prez said:
We had a new person start a few weeks ago. As is my ritual, I had her watch Top Gun because I like to liberally quote it in work situations. She said "I don't think I would want Maverick as my wing man. He can't be trusted. I think Iceman is the good guy in the movie." I was, and frankly still am, flabbergasted. Maverick is probably the best pilot in the history of the Navy. But her point is if you can't count on Maverick to be where you expect him to be when you expect him to be there, you're better off flying with the inferior Iceman. Not a take I agree with, but I get the logic.

I think guys in the heat of the moment can't understand this. A guy might be a step faster and have a better juke move than the guy ahead of him and immediately wonder why he isn't starting, when he's just blind to the fact that he can't pick up blocks or read the blitz to make the call to peel off and wait for a pass in the flat. The playbook is huge and there are a ton of variables in it and if you don't have the permutations down pat and the guy ahead of you does, but is otherwise not as good as you, you ain't playing.

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Yeah...I spent years driving around San Diego on a crotch rocket bike with the aviator sunglasses. I spent my college years trying to sleep with all my instructors...even the guys, just to be like Tom Cruise.
 
Fryowa said:
You tell that chick that Cougar and Merlin would be dead if not for Maverick. Zero chance Iceman brings 'em back to the boat alive.
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I did. Her comeback was that had Mav not left Coug solo that he would have never been radar locked and had his anxiety episode, then Coug would have went to Top Gun, Mav would have been in a later class where he wasn't trying to one up Ice and Goose wouldn't have died. She also noted that the taxpayers would have one more F-14 in its arsenal under that scenario. She's in her 20's so maybe the education system has really knocked any sense of individuality out of most kids and replaced it with superficial shit like "show your individuality by getting a neck tattoo and dying your hair purple" or some shit. I don't know, man.

Speaking of the failing education system, how is it that kids get out of school without watching seminal documentaries like Top Gun and Rocky? What the hell are they teaching nowadays?
 
okeefe4prez said:
We had a new person start a few weeks ago. As is my ritual, I had her watch Top Gun because I like to liberally quote it in work situations. She said "I don't think I would want Maverick as my wing man. He can't be trusted. I think Iceman is the good guy in the movie." I was, and frankly still am, flabbergasted. Maverick is probably the best pilot in the history of the Navy. But her point is if you can't count on Maverick to be where you expect him to be when you expect him to be there, you're better off flying with the inferior Iceman. Not a take I agree with, but I get the logic.

I think guys in the heat of the moment can't understand this. A guy might be a step faster and have a better juke move than the guy ahead of him and immediately wonder why he isn't starting, when he's just blind to the fact that he can't pick up blocks or read the blitz to make the call to peel off and wait for a pass in the flat. The playbook is huge and there are a ton of variables in it and if you don't have the permutations down pat and the guy ahead of you does, but is otherwise not as good as you, you ain't playing.

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She must be under 35-40ish eh?
 
So - some of the non-monetary demands for compensation due to racial discrimination are themselves racially discriminatory.

Is anybody going to call them out on it? No. This G8 really don't want to fix anything.
 
okeefe4prez said:
We had a new person start a few weeks ago. As is my ritual, I had her watch Top Gun because I like to liberally quote it in work situations. She said "I don't think I would want Maverick as my wing man. He can't be trusted. I think Iceman is the good guy in the movie." I was, and frankly still am, flabbergasted. Maverick is probably the best pilot in the history of the Navy. But her point is if you can't count on Maverick to be where you expect him to be when you expect him to be there, you're better off flying with the inferior Iceman. Not a take I agree with, but I get the logic.

I think guys in the heat of the moment can't understand this. A guy might be a step faster and have a better juke move than the guy ahead of him and immediately wonder why he isn't starting, when he's just blind to the fact that he can't pick up blocks or read the blitz to make the call to peel off and wait for a pass in the flat. The playbook is huge and there are a ton of variables in it and if you don't have the permutations down pat and the guy ahead of you does, but is otherwise not as good as you, you ain't playing.

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What I don't understand and will never under stand is why do your employees have to watch Top Gun when hired? They should have been watching it for years and have it memorized.
 
kicker22 said:
What I don't understand and will never under stand is why do your employees have to watch Top Gun when hired? They should have been watching it for years and have it memorized.
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It started like 7 or 8 years ago. There was some point where the kids just hadn't seen it. I have no idea how that is possible. When you're running a project and you say "You screw up this much (pinches fingers together) and you'll be flying cargo planes full of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong" and the kids look at you like you're insane, it's easier to just have them watch Top Gun than trying to explain it.
 
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