Power of coaching changes.

OUTofTOWNHAWK

OUTofTOWNHAWK

Well-Known Member
Look no further than the Iowa baseball team. Program sitting still for years. A lot of talk how Iowa couldn't be good because they couldn't recruit against the south.

Iowa has made this sick mentality that if kirk cant do it no one can.
 


OUTofTOWNHAWK said:
Look no further than the Iowa baseball team. Program sitting still for years. A lot of talk how Iowa couldn't be good because they couldn't recruit against the south.

Iowa has made this sick mentality that if kirk cant do it no one can.
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Make no mistake about it… If Kirk's buyout wasn't north of $15 million he would be gone by now. At this point it's all about the buyout.
 


SpiderRico said:
Make no mistake about it… If Kirk's buyout wasn't north of $15 million he would be gone by now. At this point it's all about the buyout.
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Good point, although I think a compelling case could be made that the net cost to Iowa would be less due to lagging ticket sales and related lost revenue as a result of the growing apathy. 5,000 fewer season ticket sales, which I think is foreseeable, is $1.75 million; over a couple of years, plus other lost revenue, that starts to add up.
 


I disagree about the buy-out being the reason why Kirk is still coach....the University can afford to buy him out if it so chooses.

Kirk is still coach because:
1. Even though the team has underachieved lately, they are still going to bowl games.
2. Kirk has built up enough goodwill to earn the benefit of the doubt for a few years.

That being said...I think the pressure is pretty high to show improvement this season, or he could very well be gone.
 


83Hawk said:
2. Kirk has built up enough goodwill to earn the benefit of the doubt for a few years.
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That goodwill is built up in all the right places. The biggest donors absolutely love him and would be pist, some to the point of giving to ISU instead, if he was shown the door.
 


83Hawk said:
I disagree about the buy-out being the reason why Kirk is still coach....the University can afford to buy him out if it so chooses.

Kirk is still coach because:
1. Even though the team has underachieved lately, they are still going to bowl games.
2. Kirk has built up enough goodwill to earn the benefit of the doubt for a few years.

That being said...I think the pressure is pretty high to show improvement this season, or he could very well be gone.
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In retrospect, I think Sally Mason didn't want to have to deal with another contract negotiation in sports. She (and Barta) gave kirk whatever he wanted and were playing the odds. Keep in mind the time: Lackluster was canned and got $millions in his buyout in '09 and Fran came on board. Just my .02 cents.
 


83Hawk said:
I disagree about the buy-out being the reason why Kirk is still coach....the University can afford to buy him out if it so chooses.

Kirk is still coach because:
1. Even though the team has underachieved lately, they are still going to bowl games.
2. Kirk has built up enough goodwill to earn the benefit of the doubt for a few years.

That being said...I think the pressure is pretty high to show improvement this season, or he could very well be gone.
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Outside of 2013, they've underachieved every year since 2009 - that's more than lately. Which leads to your second point, I think it depends on whose goodwill tank you're looking at. The fans? Barely any left. Barta? Probably still a lot. Thus, barring a complete disaster (2-10), I don't see Barta firing him at the end of the year. It's complicated, for sure.
 




homes said:
Outside of 2013, they've underachieved every year since 2009 - that's more than lately. Which leads to your second point, I think it depends on whose goodwill tank you're looking at. The fans? Barely any left. Barta? Probably still a lot. Thus, barring a complete disaster (2-10), I don't see Barta firing him at the end of the year. It's complicated, for sure.
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Miller and Deace mentioned in their podcast the idea of an AD change coming soon. Will be interesting to see. We all know Barta denied being interested in the WVU AD job, even though WVU reported him as a candidate.
 


Coaching changes don't make programs better. Bringing in a better coach does, and bringing in a worse coach will hurt the program. Pretty simple stuff really.
 


OUTofTOWNHAWK said:
Look no further than the Iowa baseball team. Program sitting still for years. A lot of talk how Iowa couldn't be good because they couldn't recruit against the south.

Iowa has made this sick mentality that if kirk cant do it no one can.
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Couldn't agree more. I think we need to get Donald Trump in here because there is a whole lot of firing that needs to be done.
 


deanvogs said:
Coaching changes don't make programs better. Bringing in a better coach does, and bringing in a worse coach will hurt the program. Pretty simple stuff really.
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This. Heller was a huge upgrade over Dahm, just like Fran has been a big upgrade over Lickliter. Lick wasn't an upgrade over Alford and Rich Rod wasn't an upgrade over Lloyd Carr at Michigan.
 


homes said:
Not uniformly.
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The two I know, and they're as big as they get, are on board and say that there's enough to keep him. One was blunt enough to tell me that they are the ones that will decide (as if we didn't already know).
 


tm3308 said:
This. Heller was a huge upgrade over Dahm, just like Fran has been a big upgrade over Lickliter. Lick wasn't an upgrade over Alford and Rich Rod wasn't an upgrade over Lloyd Carr at Michigan.
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The whole idea that just making a change from KF will automatically mean better results is just beyond idiotic. There are plenty of coaches who would win at Iowa, and many that wouldn't survive at all in Iowa City. That is why I want Barta gone, sure he got the Fran hire right, but he botched the Lick hire, and KF contract. Barta with Sally have also turned the once exciting, and vibrant game day atmosphere around Kinnick into a stale, and boring atmosphere.
 


deanvogs said:
The whole idea that just making a change from KF will automatically mean better results is just beyond idiotic. There are plenty of coaches who would win at Iowa, and many that wouldn't survive at all in Iowa City. That is why I want Barta gone, sure he got the Fran hire right, but he botched the Lick hire, and KF contract. Barta with Sally have also turned the once exciting, and vibrant game day atmosphere around Kinnick into a stale, and boring atmosphere.
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Well said.

I'm with you in the fact that I'm not really itching to have the current administration making the next coaching hire, especially since it would likely mean a buyout of several millions of dollars (unless KF retires).. They'd better get it right, otherwise, you'll REALLY be on the hook if your new hire doesn't work out in addition to the buyout you'll be paying through at least 2020.

Change for the sake of change is usually a bad idea. Even if you have good reason to make a change, there's no guarantee it will work out (Alford/Lick). Then again, it might (Lick/Fran).
 


Probably doesn't help that our own head coach made changes back in 2011, and our program has been absolutely horrible since then. Yes we had a "decent" year in 2013, only cause most of us were predicting 5 wins...and we got 8.

But other than having the senior LB's for 2013, I can't think of a position that has improved over the last batch of coaches. That leads me to think there's something off with the scheme.

And for 2015 season, we now have guys being rearranged. Woods has never even coached on the offense, and he's now our TE coach? It's just baffling.

While it's possible we could find a worse coach than KF....I'm willing to bet we are better off without him.
 




No idea why Sally Barta decided to take the fun out of football. I might be getting up there in years but tailgating with coffee and donuts doesn't seem to get the fans fired up. Of course if Kirk is released and donations go down they may have to change the game day atmosphere in order to bring in new money.
Even the
th
in Ames is trying to build support by letting the tail gaters have fun. It's certainly better than the games.
 


DBAHawkFan said:
Probably doesn't help that our own head coach made changes back in 2011, and our program has been absolutely horrible since then. Yes we had a "decent" year in 2013, only cause most of us were predicting 5 wins...and we got 8.

But other than having the senior LB's for 2013, I can't think of a position that has improved over the last batch of coaches. That leads me to think there's something off with the scheme.

And for 2015 season, we now have guys being rearranged. Woods has never even coached on the offense, and he's now our TE coach? It's just baffling.

While it's possible we could find a worse coach than KF....I'm willing to bet we are better off without him.
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Your last line is where I'm at. It's hard to turn things around when you have to recruit as a coach that's probably on the outs. If Kirk gets refocused, there is a chance. But it's hard to do much worse than tired, burned out Kirk.
 


PCHawk said:
Your last line is where I'm at. It's hard to turn things around when you have to recruit as a coach that's probably on the outs. If Kirk gets refocused, there is a chance. But it's hard to do much worse than tired, burned out Kirk.
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Iowa had four consecutive coaches that were awful. Burns, Nagel, FXL & Commings were far worse than Ferentz. Evy hired the first two & Bump hired the last two. Bump didn't get it right until his third hire. Be careful what you wish for!
 


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