Lachance to Vanderbilt....

My reading comprehension is just fine, so maybe I need to rephrase so you can understand. What you said is that with every one of those 7 scholarships Fran absolutely must increase the talent level over the person who currently holds the scholly or the Iowa basketball team is going to become irrelevant again. All 7 mind you, if we only bring in more talent for 5 of those schollys it's off the cliff into nothingness.

Oh, and sorry I don't have 8,000 posts like you so I can be a real fan.. Get over yourself.....

No, he really didn't write what you think you read. Read it again slowly. Then read it one more time.

I am not gonna hate on a player that just signed with the Hawks and one that I believe actually adds value. Teams need 3 point shooters and it appears Ellingson does just that, quite well.

I get it! Everyone wants the top 100 guys.

But, if you can't land those you better hope as a coach you can excel at player development and can spot hidden talent and find guys others have missed. I think Fran and staff do those things quite well.
 


Vanderbilt is in the same boat, I doubt LaChance sees much playing time before he is a sophomore or he redshirts his freshman season. Fran has plenty to sell recruits, a new practice facility and a program on the rise in a premier basketball conference.

No he does not have plenty to sell recruits.

He has very little playing time to sell for the next 3 years and no post season success to point too.

You pretty much have to have one or the other.

I don't care what happens in recruiting until after we see what Iowa does in the post season this year.

The starting lineup is basically set for the next 3 years.
 




strat, I tried to convince the crowd that ellingson and forbes were lick-level, or lower, but people are convinced otherwise.

Marble and McCabe were Lick level recruits too.

Basketball isn't like football in the need for a good class every year and it can't be because people don't want to or need to wait 2-3 years to play unless its an elite program. And even then there is more turnover with guys leaving early.

Either you are recruiting guys good enough to jump current players (Ulis) or you're asking 100-150 ranked guys to sit behind a large group of players only a year or two older. No one wants to do that on a team that hasn't been to the tourney in long time.
 
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No he does not have plenty to sell recruits.

He has very little playing time to sell for the next 3 years and no post season success to point too.

You pretty much have to have one or the other.

I don't care what happens in recruiting until after we see what Iowa does in the post season this year.

The starting lineup is basically set for the next 3 years.
Actually, he has little time to sell this year and possibly next. But after that .. .. there's plenty of playing time.

GO HAWKS!!!
 


I think this is Fran's most difficult year to actually recruit given the young talent that Iowa has. He can't see playing time unless it is to the elite guys like Ulis.
 




No he does not have plenty to sell recruits.

He has very little playing time to sell for the next 3 years and no post season success to point too.

You pretty much have to have one or the other.

I don't care what happens in recruiting until after we see what Iowa does in the post season this year.

The starting lineup is basically set for the next 3 years.

Boom. One of the better posts about the current state of our "sell" that I've read.
 


Playing time had nothing to do with LaChance's decision to go to Vanderbilt as they are in the same situation Iowa is in.

I get the post season argument, but that will soon change. But most outsiders view Iowa as a program on the rise, so I cannot see that being the excuse for a recruit not to come to Iowa. Some of you need to realize that there are some players in the rotation that would not get as much playing time on a better team. Jok is a true freshman and it does not appear that he is going to have any problem finding playing time. If Iowa's existing rotation was so loaded with talent then they would not have played the past 2 seasons in the NIT? I don't mean to knock our team, they are getting better, but let's not pretend like a 4/5 star recruit could not find playing time in this rotation.
 


Playing time had nothing to do with LaChance's decision to go to Vanderbilt as they are in the same situation Iowa is in.

I get the post season argument, but that will soon change. But most outsiders view Iowa as a program on the rise, so I cannot see that being the excuse for a recruit not to come to Iowa. Some of you need to realize that there are some players in the rotation that would not get as much playing time on a better team. Jok is a true freshman and it does not appear that he is going to have any problem finding playing time. If Iowa's existing rotation was so loaded with talent then they would not have played the past 2 seasons in the NIT? I don't mean to knock our team, they are getting better, but let's not pretend like a 4/5 star recruit could not find playing time in this rotation.

Provide me a position on the Iowa basketball team where it would be easy to break through in the next two years.

Don't let your frustration with our recruiting cloud the truth of this roster. It's stacked.
 


Playing time had nothing to do with LaChance's decision to go to Vanderbilt as they are in the same situation Iowa is in.

I get the post season argument, but that will soon change. But most outsiders view Iowa as a program on the rise, so I cannot see that being the excuse for a recruit not to come to Iowa. Some of you need to realize that there are some players in the rotation that would not get as much playing time on a better team. Jok is a true freshman and it does not appear that he is going to have any problem finding playing time. If Iowa's existing rotation was so loaded with talent then they would not have played the past 2 seasons in the NIT? I don't mean to knock our team, they are getting better, but let's not pretend like a 4/5 star recruit could not find playing time in this rotation.


Also...what? Vanderbilt has only one underclassmen point guard and he averaged a minute per last year.

We have two sophomore point guards and both of them averaged over 17 minutes. Unless I'm missing something, the ability to gain early playing time had to be intrinsic to his decision.
 


Sapp and Basabe come to mind as players who could lose pt. Both are good players but superior talent usually wins out in the end.
 


Sapp and Basabe come to mind as players who could lose pt. Both are good players but superior talent usually wins out in the end.

The challenge wasn't individual players, the challenge was positions. For the next two years:

PG: Clemmons, Gessel
SG: Jok, Oglesby, Gessel
SF: Uthoff, Jok
PF: White, Olaseni, Meyer
C: Woodbury, Olaseni, Meyer


Now, are there players on there that could lose minutes? Of course. But, can a kid realistically expect to come in and push Clemmons/Gessel out? Jok? Woodbury? Uthoff? The only position where there is a clear chance to start as a sophomore is at the 4 when White and Gabe leave. Other than that, kids look at the Iowa roster and can pretty much bet on not starting until their Junior year.

Could a five star phenom bump Uthoff or Woodbury? Maybe, but we're not in on kids like that yet. The top 75-150 kids look at Iowa and say, "thanks but no thanks. I want to play."
 


Playing time had nothing to do with LaChance's decision to go to Vanderbilt as they are in the same situation Iowa is in.

I get the post season argument, but that will soon change. But most outsiders view Iowa as a program on the rise, so I cannot see that being the excuse for a recruit not to come to Iowa. Some of you need to realize that there are some players in the rotation that would not get as much playing time on a better team. Jok is a true freshman and it does not appear that he is going to have any problem finding playing time. If Iowa's existing rotation was so loaded with talent then they would not have played the past 2 seasons in the NIT? I don't mean to knock our team, they are getting better, but let's not pretend like a 4/5 star recruit could not find playing time in this rotation.

Playing time...in today's basketball climate it's always a factor.

Post Season...not sure 18-year-old kids generally track programs on the rise. That's for pundits, etc.

Current rotation...chemistry meaning the sum of the parts exceeds the individual pieces. Comparing each player's role at Iowa to what it might be elsewhere is apples to oranges IMO.

Jok...fills a desperate need with his shooting and was underrated IMO. I see him playing like a 4 star. It remains to be seen how many minutes he plays.

NIT...young and upcoming team/talent now has depth and experience and should take the next step without any problem IMO. Our coaches made our players better IMO.

4/5 star recruit...finding playing time is likely but being "the man" is unlikely. We're too deep and talented and the recruit would have to be extremely special for Fran to upset the balance IMO. How many of the players in our 11 man rotation have started a game for Iowa? How many other D-1 schools can say the same?
 


The challenge wasn't individual players, the challenge was positions. For the next two years:

PG: Clemmons, Gessel
SG: Jok, Oglesby, Gessel
SF: Uthoff, Jok
PF: White, Olaseni, Meyer
C: Woodbury, Olaseni, Meyer


Now, are there players on there that could lose minutes? Of course. But, can a kid realistically expect to come in and push Clemmons/Gessel out? Jok? Woodbury? Uthoff? The only position where there is a clear chance to start as a sophomore is at the 4 when White and Gabe leave. Other than that, kids look at the Iowa roster and can pretty much bet on not starting until their Junior year.

Could a five star phenom bump Uthoff or Woodbury? Maybe, but we're not in on kids like that yet. The top 75-150 kids look at Iowa and say, "thanks but no thanks. I want to play."

Agree.
 


The challenge wasn't individual players, the challenge was positions. For the next two years:

PG: Clemmons, Gessel
SG: Jok, Oglesby, Gessel
SF: Uthoff, Jok
PF: White, Olaseni, Meyer
C: Woodbury, Olaseni, Meyer


Now, are there players on there that could lose minutes? Of course. But, can a kid realistically expect to come in and push Clemmons/Gessel out? Jok? Woodbury? Uthoff? The only position where there is a clear chance to start as a sophomore is at the 4 when White and Gabe leave. Other than that, kids look at the Iowa roster and can pretty much bet on not starting until their Junior year.

Could a five star phenom bump Uthoff or Woodbury? Maybe, but we're not in on kids like that yet. The top 75-150 kids look at Iowa and say, "thanks but no thanks. I want to play."

You have the same player at multiple positions. Gesell, Jok, Olaseni, and Meyer cannot play the different positions at the same time. Look at it from another point of view, an up tempo game will go up to 10 deep so place the players in order of the amount of playing time they will get. Last year Iowa had 10 players average more than 10 minutes per game and I bet it will be more of the same this year.

Projected starters (JMO, I don't know)
PG Gesell (25 mpg)
SG Jok (25 mpg)
SF Uthoff (25 mpg)
PF White (30 mpg)
C Woodbury (20 mpg)

I am guessing at the projected minutes per game, and I am probably being too generous for some of the players. Last season Iowa only had 3 players average more than 25 mpg and only 4 average more than 20 mpg. But in my example I have 125 minutes being used out of 200 available. You have 75 minutes to split among 4 other players.

Clemmons (15 mpg)
Olaseni (15 mpg)
Oglesby (15 mpg)
Meyer (15 mpg)

Even giving everyone 15 mpg that still leaves me 15 mpg left over, that is awfully attractive to an incoming freshman. You really believe that there are not better players out there that could pull minutes away from Oglesby, Meyer, or Clemmons? Not only that but 3 of the players on the roster will be seniors when incoming recruits are freshman (Oglesby, Olaseni, and White) which frees up even more playing time when they are sophomores (or redshirt freshman). In an up tempo style of play there is plenty of playing time for recruits to earn.
 








You have the same player at multiple positions. Gesell, Jok, Olaseni, and Meyer cannot play the different positions at the same time. Look at it from another point of view, an up tempo game will go up to 10 deep so place the players in order of the amount of playing time they will get. Last year Iowa had 10 players average more than 10 minutes per game and I bet it will be more of the same this year.

Projected starters (JMO, I don't know)
PG Gesell (25 mpg)
SG Jok (25 mpg)
SF Uthoff (25 mpg)
PF White (30 mpg)
C Woodbury (20 mpg)

I am guessing at the projected minutes per game, and I am probably being too generous for some of the players. Last season Iowa only had 3 players average more than 25 mpg and only 4 average more than 20 mpg. But in my example I have 125 minutes being used out of 200 available. You have 75 minutes to split among 4 other players.

Clemmons (15 mpg)
Olaseni (15 mpg)
Oglesby (15 mpg)
Meyer (15 mpg)

Even giving everyone 15 mpg that still leaves me 15 mpg left over, that is awfully attractive to an incoming freshman. You really believe that there are not better players out there that could pull minutes away from Oglesby, Meyer, or Clemmons? Not only that but 3 of the players on the roster will be seniors when incoming recruits are freshman (Oglesby, Olaseni, and White) which frees up even more playing time when they are sophomores (or redshirt freshman). In an up tempo style of play there is plenty of playing time for recruits to earn.

See, you're taking a myopic view. Yeah, if we were recruiting one guy, maybe 15 minutes would be a sell, but we're recruiting 3, maybe four. So - and your words here, not mine - 5 minutes per game (15 split three ways) with not much relief until their junior year is supposed to entice guys?

We have one of the deepest teams in the country and we're junior and sophomore heavy. Not much to argue with, ssc.
 




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