Regardless, there were Iowa fans arguing with his dad on twitter about whether it was right or wrong of Dolph to say it. Whether that is an issue or not with Fosters recruitment, only time will tell.
Xavier Foster
- Thread starter morley10
- Start date
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
If an innocent (all be it awkward) one-off comment made by a broadcaster makes him direct his kid to a different school... well, nuff said. It should also knock ISU out of the running...there are a hell of a lot more old-school aggie types in Ames... than Iowa City.
Last edited:
BigD
Well-Known Member
Sure, that’s why you feel you need to come on here a defend Fran.
I do agree with you in that family and work are very important and should be the focus of our life. Why do you feel the need to defend a coach that hasn’t won a conference title or conference tournament in twelve years? How can any person who is a basketball fan defend that? Why do you do that?
BigD
Well-Known Member
I was thinking he was a tall guard because of your very point in that we have several of them already. I guess I just assumed he was a guard because of the big deal being made about him.
I honestly hope one of these guards coming in will explode onto the scene and be a diamond in the rough. If not we are screwed.
BigD
Well-Known Member
That would help to say the least. The interior defense has been horrible at times.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Next season will be Fran’s 10th at Iowa.
I defend the coach for two reasons. The first one is because I understand the odds of Iowa winning one the way the conference has been set up recently. The odds have already gotten better now that Belien and Ryan are gone. The big one is Izzo tho and he will probably be gone too. If you want to be smart about something, you have to factor in all the variables, and competition is a big one. Conference tournaments mean nothing to me when judging a coach's success.
The second reason is I have a different opinion on the chances of Fran winning one than you do. I understand the black and white thinking of "if he hasn't won one yet he never will" especially for someone who doesn't know simple things like how high a coach finished in the conference standings, what position a major in state recruit plays, or that a coach has been here 9 years and not 12. But I dont think in black and white. I understand that he's already been a couple baskets away from winning one. I understand that hiring a new coach is more than likely going to leave us in the same spot or worse. We need to find a hall of fame coach to win at the level you demand. The last one we found ran for the hills the first chance he got. I also understand that it's going to be even harder to win at iowa with this trend of marginal talent going pro early. It cost us a legit chance at a really good season next year.
I've got no problem with you always posting that you demand more. The only thing that bugs me is the whole defeatist mindset thing. It just makes no sense when talking about the team you cheer for and have no control over. Even if it did make sense that you're a defeatist if you dont bitch enough about a team you have nothing to do with, I would still choose to be one. I watch sports for entertainment. If you can't ever be entertained because you're too busy demanding more, than what's the point of even watching?
If I didn't know better I would think he was trolling. All he ever does is post about how bad we suck (a troll move) and post incorrect facts (another troll move).
Come on big D, now you're asking about incoming point guards in another thread? Do you really not know who Joe Toussaint is? I really don't think you're a troll but I have no idea how you can spend so much time on a message board and know so little about the team. We have 2 new recruits coming in. One is the coach's son and the other is the prototypical point guard that everyone wants. I've read posts before of people specifically telling you about him.
Sometimes it makes me wonder if Fran is missing the boat going crazy recruiting top 100 guys and missing on all of them besides weiskamp and the ones living in his house.
He needs to take a small page out of the Iowa football play book and take smaller guys coach them up. I know it’s different sports, but maybe shooting for the stars and missing and then handing out schollies to borderline d-1 talent like maishe isn’t the best way to approach this.
A good example is hitting carton hard, missing and then settling for touissaint. Maybe touissamt will prove me wrong and be the next multi year starting guard, but there has to be an in between. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have recruiting a backyard guy like carton, but surely there is a level of recruits between carton and toussaint. For instance, the players Wisconsin is getting.
He needs to take a small page out of the Iowa football play book and take smaller guys coach them up. I know it’s different sports, but maybe shooting for the stars and missing and then handing out schollies to borderline d-1 talent like maishe isn’t the best way to approach this.
A good example is hitting carton hard, missing and then settling for touissaint. Maybe touissamt will prove me wrong and be the next multi year starting guard, but there has to be an in between. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have recruiting a backyard guy like carton, but surely there is a level of recruits between carton and toussaint. For instance, the players Wisconsin is getting.
Last edited:
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
The Germans?Forget it, he's rolling ...
I can't imagine how bad Fran would get torched if he didn't even try to get Carton and Foster. You HAVE to go for the in state kids unless they tell you there's no chance. You may have a point about Fran spending too much time going hard for top out of state kids tho. The problem with that is he has gotten in on a lot of them before they blew up. Kinda hard to back off after you built that good of a relationship. Its rarely been enough to seal the deal tho. Just for Cook and Garza so far.
#1DieHardHawk
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you're spouting off at me or just ranting in general, but, I agree with you. The whole thing was completely overblown and taken out of context.
My point is that with high-level recruits the competition is insane. If something turns off your dad (whether the reaction is reasonable or not), the impact can be significant. Choosing from several top programs almost always boils down to a "feel" thing.
BigD
Well-Known Member
Rob is involved in recruiting and I figured that as long as he has done this he would have seen enough high school players and even college freshmen to get a good idea of whether he sees in any of our new guards those attributes that he has seen in other players who have gone on to be great point guards. It was a very simple question. Just looking for some hope that one of these guys will rise to the top and excel and be the missing piece.
Yes I knew we had point guards coming in and I’ve read about them. I remember also an ALL AMERICAN Junior College point guard who transferred to Iowa with high accolades. I was very excited to see him play and thought YES this might be the guy. Well we all know it didn’t go well and it turned out to be a disappointment.
So yes I hear the term “four star recruit” so that does give hope. I hope all the new players play up to expectations. It’s not anyone’s fault when it doesn’t happen because for some players the leap from high school to college seems to over whelm them. Other do well and seem to excel. White was a tremendous example.
I did tell Rob I didn’t want to put him on the spot. He could have just sent me a private message telling me his honest opinion of each of the new guards. I understand his profession and how he doesn’t want to ruffle any feathers when he goes to interview players. Also Rob mentions not hijacking the thread but then answers another posters question having to do with another player. That’s interesting.
I do appreciate that you explained why you support keeping Fran around. You could end up being correct and that in the end being patient could pay off.
I also understand the entertainment value of college sports. I also know that every fan has hopes and expectations they hope to see their teams achieve. If you don’t think the fans care about this then why was the auditorium half, to one third full when Lick was here. I am hearing there are still a lot of empty seats at the games now. Things are much better under Fran than Lick but the excitement is not to the level is was under Lute, George, and most of Tom’s time here. Maybe that’s a disadvantage having experienced that part of Iowa basketball.
To pay these coaches millions of dollars a year and not have expectations would be crazy. Fran has his good points but I honestly don’t agree with keeping him around too much longer if he can’t raise this program to a point where with a few games left in the regular season we aren’t still in a position to win the conference. I would except just getting to the Big Ten tournament title game just once every five years. We can’t even sniff it.
The term defeatist may have been a bit strong but what term do you give to a fan base that has settled with excepting mediocrity every year? In basketball they seem a little more demanding as I mentioned before that the auditorium is not selling out.
Yes you see turnover at certain schools. Over and over again it happens. Sometimes it takes a long time to find a coach that is what THEY want and can accept. THEY meaning the fan base. Yes fan bases can be unrealistic but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have hope and expectations.
You also mention that winning conference titles and tournaments is not important in determining whether you feel a team is successful on the field or not. Now we are in Iowa State territory. Every one who has followed the cyclone fan chatter out of Ames is familiar with that kind of talk.
One of the greatest coach’s in history once said “Winning isn’t everything. It’s the only thing.” I believe that was Vince L that said that. Some of the older guys may remember that quote and correct me.
I’m not saying I totally agree with that. I would not want it if it meant having a corrupt and dirty program. That’s the part I will give Kirk and Fran. At this point they appear to get good results and have clean programs. Kirk isn’t just making football players he is teaching values and principles that will help this young men going forward after college. It will be meaningful to them, their future families, and to their communities. If that is the success you are referring to I will give you that. Still, that’s what parents and religious leaders are about. I don’t see them getting millions of dollars.
Last edited:
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
So much to address here...
Big 10 Regular Season Championships from 1983-2019
IN 8 (5 of those outright)
IL 5 (2)
PU 9 (5)
MI 4 (3)
MSU 10 (6)
OSU 7 (4)
WI 4 (3)
If WI can get 4 one would think IA could get a couple. On the other hand how do schools in talent rich states like MI and IL only have 4 and 5 respectively?
Drought? Better add George and Tom to the list.
Based on your diatribe Iowa shouldn’t have even been able to fill out the roster the last 30 years plus...since recruits only care about conference championships.
I would counter that most top end recruits care about getting to the NBA first and winning a National Championship 2nd. A conference championship may get to 3rd but I doubt it. Teammates, coach, proximity to parents, among other things likely are more important to the typical 4 year recruit.
Wisconsin got lucky and found a hall of fame coach. That's what it takes to win at that level for teams luke Wisconsin and Iowa. The odds are extremely low that we would find one and they would stick around long enough to reap the benefits. Does it mean we shouldn't try? I'd say the circumstances have to be right. You have to have a guy in mind and you have to have a coach worth getting rid of. Not too many programs outside the top 20 do what Iowa did to Davis. And that only happened because it was the right circumstances. Davis was nearing the end of his career and was trending down. He lowered the program from where he got it. We had a really good option for a replacement. In hindsight it didnt work out with him, but at the time he was the next big thing. If we can convince the next big thing to come here, I'm all for change. But more than likely what it would be is Fire Fran, look for a new guy, and hire the 4th or 5th option who finally says yes. That's not a recipe for raising the bar.
If you remember Dickerson, you should know that there is no telling what Joe T will be until he starts playing. The only way to know for sure is if he's a top 50 guy or just downright awful. Since he's one of the thousands of players who fall in the middle, we will have to wait and see. There's lots of reasons to be optimistic about him, but there are plenty of questions too.
Rob said dont hijack the thread "with the same drivel". That means the negative crap that pops up all the time. Your post had a very negative tone, the other didn't.
I won't be proven either correct or wrong on my opinion that Fran has a better chance of taking us to higher highs because we would need to let both play out multiple times to decide which one was right.
Basketball attendance in general has declined since those days. It's a different world now. Of course it's going to be affected by how good the team is doing, but we had two teams ranked in the top 10 and one as high as 3rd and Carver still sucked.
There is nothing wrong with fans having hope and expectations. "Defeatist" is just a terrible word for fans who don't freak out. It makes no sense in that context. Flipping out doesn't make me less of a defeatist. In fact, me flipping out as much as I do during games (probably more than 95% of the people on this board) and me spending as much time as I do on this board kinda makes me more of a loser in life. Its boarderline pathetic how much I care about something that I'm not even part of.
I didn't say winning conference titles isn't important. What I said is winning conference tournaments isnt important when judging a coach. There is just so much randomness in who wins tournaments to put much stock in it.
No one actually believes in the "winning is everything" quote, it's just something coaches say to fire up the team. You're probably a pretty big loser in life if the only thing that matters to you is winning at all costs. People like that are unbearable to be around.
I care very little about iowa coaches "making better people". Its kinda cool when you read quotes from past players, but I don't really care too much about that. I would rather have Raveling recruits who probably got here a little shady and take my chances of getting in trouble. But that's just me.
RobHowe
Administrator
You guys were talking about the PGs in this thread. I was requesting it not leak over into another thread about a player who is not a PG.
