willie atwood

[DowsHawk1]

You have to love Peter's potential, however it could be argued his minutes on the floor could have cost us the game at ISU. He has demonstrated a shoot first ask questions about the situation later mentality in almost every game. He hasn't done much against better competition and his stats have generally come at garbage time. He's a defensive liability at this point.

His offensive upside is huge. He has the skill set to be one of the better scores at Iowa since the Alford era.
His understanding of the college game is probably at a level similar to Gabe at this point and that in and of itself is a high risk to put on the floor in meaningful minutes. I think Fran will run a heat check each game with him, but it league play most of his minutes will go to Josh if healthy.

We're a deep team and Hawk fans are getting used to seeing us essentially empty the bench every game, but most freshman need some time to adjust to the college game IMO Peter falls into that group and I'm fine with him mostly playing mop up minutes.

 

[DaBears]

I think Jok will eventually be a more unstoppable scorer than Marble because he's a better shooter, as well as having a slashing game, a smart kid with a level head but also a scorer's mentality . He'll score some next year but he won't be better than Marble yet. Marble as a senior is the product of some experience along with his talent.

But this thread started with Willie Atwood. I'm intrigued with him because he's an athletic kid with more physical presence than Basabe. As I explained in a previous post, his status as a junior at his position in 2014 could actually benefit both he and Iowa should he be part of our 2014 class.

So where has ANY of this been thus far? He can't play D, doesn't jump very high when he shoots, but does have a mean right-hand lay-up.

 

[PCHawk]

You have to love Peter's potential, however it could be argued his minutes on the floor could have cost us the game at ISU. He has demonstrated a shoot first ask questions about the situation later mentality in almost every game. He hasn't done much against better competition and his stats have generally come at garbage time. He's a defensive liability at this point.

His offensive upside is huge. He has the skill set to be one of the better scores at Iowa since the Alford era.
His understanding of the college game is probably at a level similar to Gabe at this point and that in and of itself is a high risk to put on the floor in meaningful minutes. I think Fran will run a heat check each game with him, but it league play most of his minutes will go to Josh if healthy.

We're a deep team and Hawk fans are getting used to seeing us essentially empty the bench every game, but most freshman need some time to adjust to the college game IMO Peter falls into that group and I'm fine with him mostly playing mop up minutes.

In most games lost you can usually pick out a player and say in hindsight that his minutes cost us the game. I would be willing to bet that he helps win a few games this year.

 

[1hawkeye1]

gesell with average 14 or 15 next year. bank on it.

next year's starters

gesell
ogs
utoff
white
woodbury

isu fans will be put on suicide watch when that lineup beats them at carver

This lineup lacks ethnic diversity. Sally Mason is

 

[WindsorHawk]

He's shown a lot. But he's just a frosh. He could make a big leap next year because we will need his talents. But he could certainly use more experience. I'm eager to see that experience unfold.

I like Marble and we all have to remember he's young...still 20 or has he turned recently? However, I will be surprised if Pete isn't the better player when all is said and done...assuming he can stay healthy.

 

[tm3308]

First of all, I'm talking potential here. Jok isn't near the player Marble is now. But let's compare their freshman seasons so far:
Marble: 5.7p, 2.4r, 1.3a, 19.1min., 27%3pt, 53%FT
Jok: 7.8p, 1.8r, 1.1a, 14.4min., 32%pt, 85%FT

The numbers say Jok is a better scorer than Marble was as a frosh and a more efficient FT and 3pt shooter than Marble as a senior or frosh. If one looks at efficiency per minute, Jok is more efficient than Marble was as a frosh in every category and on a much more competitive team. So the numbers say he could be better than Marble. Jok also isn't a hothead and has a scorer's mentality and a slashing game like Marble and obviously has a better outside game. So I don't understand what you are saying when you're asking what has Jok shown that makes me think he could be better than Marble in his career. He's shown a lot. But he's just a frosh. He could make a big leap next year because we will need his talents. But he could certainly use more experience. I'm eager to see that experience unfold.

The fact that you're completely ignoring the fact that Jok has faced Nova, ISU and no one else, while Marble's numbers account for games against the Big Ten, renders your argument pretty irrelevant.

Jok has done little to show he's going to be as good or better than Marble. I'm not saying he won't be, but he's not shown it yet.

In our five toughest games (Xavier, Villanova, Drake, Notre Dame and ISU), he's scored a total of 22 points. He's averaging 10.3 ppg against garbage competition, and just 5.4 against anybody with a pulse.

 

[HawkIPA]

He's averaging 10.3 ppg against garbage competition, and just 5.4 against anybody with a pulse.

Marble played about 20 MPG as a freshman. Jok has played about 14 MPG thus far and much less against Nova, ISU or ND.

 

[PCHawk]

You also have to take into account that freshman normally get better as the year goes on and Jok has only played the 1st 3rd of the season.

 

[1st]

The fact that you're completely ignoring the fact that Jok has faced Nova, ISU and no one else, while Marble's numbers account for games against the Big Ten, renders your argument pretty irrelevant.

Jok has done little to show he's going to be as good or better than Marble. I'm not saying he won't be, but he's not shown it yet.

In our five toughest games (Xavier, Villanova, Drake, Notre Dame and ISU), he's scored a total of 22 points. He's averaging 10.3 ppg against garbage competition, and just 5.4 against anybody with a pulse.

Marble will win us some games this year, but will lose some for us too by being such a poor shooter who forces up too many off balanced shots.

Anyone who can't see the talent of Jok, the way Fran does, is totally clueless!

 

[tm3308]

Marble will win us some games this year, but will lose some for us too by being such a poor shooter who forces up too many off balanced shots.

Anyone who can't see the talent of Jok, the way Fran does, is totally clueless!

You mean the way he sits Jok a lot against good teams?

I think Jok could be pretty good, but people have put the cart well before the horse here.

 

[tm3308]

You also have to take into account that freshman normally get better as the year goes on and Jok has only played the 1st 3rd of the season.

You think his production is going to improve when he stops seeing the sisters of the poor? He's scored as much as he has because he jacks. For all the hype surrounding his shooting prowess, he's shooting 32% from behind the arc.

He's done very little against quality competition. It might be wise to actually see him against Big Ten competition before even beginning to pass judgement on his future.

 

[sportstalent]

I like Marble and we all have to remember he's young...still 20 or has he turned recently? However, I will be surprised if Pete isn't the better player when all is said and done...assuming he can stay healthy.

It will not surprise me if Jok is better, he looks the part. Marble looked like a definite four year project as a freshman and is a pretty good player today, but still is very streaky, not a bad thing just a slight fault in his game.

 

[tm3308]

Marble played about 20 MPG as a freshman. Jok has played about 14 MPG thus far and much less against Nova, ISU or ND.

And this proves that Jok will be better than Marble...how, exactly? All that tells me is that Fran isn't confident enough to give Jok a lot of minutes against good competition, which doesn't really support the "he'll be better than Marble" contingent on this board.

 

[PCHawk]

And this proves that Jok will be better than Marble...how, exactly? All that tells me is that Fran isn't confident enough to give Jok a lot of minutes against good competition, which doesn't really support the "he'll be better than Marble" contingent on this board.

Did you forget the part where the team is much better than it was when Marble was a freshman? Jok would be one of the best players on the team already if he played 3 years ago.

 

[sportstalent]

Did you forget the part where the team is much better than it was when Marble was a freshman? Jok would be one of the best players on the team already if he played 3 years ago.

This is what I was thinking as well, Iowa was not good Marble's freshman year, so I don't see the correlation in MPG either. I really believe Jok is the most college ready player Fran has recruited. So he has not been his best against Iowa's best competition, shocker. Also, if you look at it, he may not have that many minutes in those games, but I would bet they would be some of his lower mpg's.

 

[Benddontbreak]

We were garbage when Marble was a frosh. Jok is the 11th man on a really deep team. Apples and Oranges guys.

 

[tm3308]

This is what I was thinking as well, Iowa was not good Marble's freshman year, so I don't see the correlation in MPG either. I really believe Jok is the most college ready player Fran has recruited. So he has not been his best against Iowa's best competition, shocker. Also, if you look at it, he may not have that many minutes in those games, but I would bet they would be some of his lower mpg's.

They are, and that's telling, IMO. If Jok were really so ready for the college game, he'd get more minutes against good competition, even on a talented team like this. I definitely don't think he's the most college-ready player Fran has brought in. Freshman Aaron White would get a lot of minutes on this team.

And again, I think he's got potential. But he's done very little against good competition. So, instead of basing our projections off of averaging 10 ppg against crap teams and saying he'll end up better than our current best player, why don't we actually give him some time to prove himself against better competition?

 

[deanvogs]

They are, and that's telling, IMO. If Jok were really so ready for the college game, he'd get more minutes against good competition, even on a talented team like this. I definitely don't think he's the most college-ready player Fran has brought in. Freshman Aaron White would get a lot of minutes on this team.

And again, I think he's got potential. But he's done very little against good competition. So, instead of basing our projections off of averaging 10 ppg against crap teams and saying he'll end up better than our current best player, why don't we actually give him some time to prove himself against better competition?

Fr Roy Marble would RS on this squad. I'm not sure if you remember how frustrating Marble was to watch at times as a FR.

 

[INTIMIDATORHawk]

Fr Roy Marble would RS on this squad. I'm not sure if you remember how frustrating Marble was to watch at times as a FR.

This is exactly what I have been thinking as I have been reading this thread.

Also, this discussion about Jok is 3 months early. Formulate an "opinion" after a sizable portion of the BIG schedule has been completed. Right now, there is not enough data to evaluate.

 

[PCHawk]

They are, and that's telling, IMO. If Jok were really so ready for the college game, he'd get more minutes against good competition, even on a talented team like this. I definitely don't think he's the most college-ready player Fran has brought in. Freshman Aaron White would get a lot of minutes on this team.

And again, I think he's got potential. But he's done very little against good competition. So, instead of basing our projections off of averaging 10 ppg against crap teams and saying he'll end up better than our current best player, why don't we actually give him some time to prove himself against better competition?

I'm not even looking at stats at all, I'm comparing them on how they looked. There is no question at all that Jok is a better freshman and has a higher ceiling. It is still a huge question though on whether or not he will improve at anywhere near the rate that Marble did.