Why we are better off WITHOUT these guys

HawkeyeRyno

HawkeyeRyno

Banned
Yes, all these transfers/de-committs is hard to take right now with our recent track record and results but let's think about this...we want TRUE HAWKEYES and talent!!!! Matt Gatens is the prime example of this. Weed out the babies and get those that WANT to be here for IOWA and not just because of some assistant coach. Yes I realize this is part of the recruiting process but McCabe is also an example of a talented player that wants to be at Iowa, not based solely on a coach.

It is apparent that many of Alford's and Lick's guys lacked true integrity and played for the name on the back of their jersey rather than the name on the front. The sooner they leave this program the sooner Fran gets kids into the program for a quicker turnaround. We lack Big Ten talent to begin with and next season was going to be bad regardless, so now we can get the worst over with RIGHT NOW and get Fran's guys on board in 1-2 years rather than 3-4 years.

Freeman, Kelly and Smith transferred and how that work out??? Tony Freeman ends his college career averaging less points/game and MINUTES/game at SIU than he did at Iowa. Jake Kelly tears his ACL (yes could have happened at Iowa but then again it didn't happen at Iowa), less publicity and lower stats. Tyler Smith was an All-American but Iowa has had those too and how did Smith's season go this year?...kicked off team and currently playing in Europe (had NBA potential). Tyler was involved with some shady friends at Tennessee and perhaps at Iowa his clique would have had a better influence on him.

I WANT TRUE HAWKEYES and INTEGRITY!!! If you don't want to be an Iowa Hawkeye...please move on!!!
 
I completely agree. Sure, it is a loss to be without fuller next year, but now we have some scholarships open for Fran to bring in his own recruits sooner rather than later. Sure Fuller was our best player in big ten play last year, but we did lose 22 games. So why not bring in Fran's guys and win sooner rather than later.
 
I certainly didn't think Lickliter connected well with the University of Iowa.

It certainly seems like Fran is more of a people person that can and will engage himself. If he does that he should be given more time to turn this program around. Seriously we need some stability at the top right now in the worst way.
 
Nice sentiment, but the problem is there are not enough legacy recruits or in-state D-1 talent produced to fill a team with guys that want to play for the name on the front of the jersey.

So you are going to have to get guys that are going to come initially for playing time and a connection with the coaching staff. Then you make them want to play for the name on the front of the jersey.
 
Problem is Iowa is not better off without these guys, in fact we will most likely be worse this upcoming year than any of Lick's years, how sickening is that.
 
TChawk said:
Problem is Iowa is not better off without these guys, in fact we will most likely be worse this upcoming year than any of Lick's years, how sickening is that.
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We will be worse if we don't add any players. If we can add some athletes that want to be here we can be a lot better.
 
TChawk said:
Problem is Iowa is not better off without these guys, in fact we will most likely be worse this upcoming year than any of Lick's years, how sickening is that.
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agree there are positive and negatives with them leaving but for sure more negatives!
 
CAARHawk said:
Nice sentiment, but the problem is there are not enough legacy recruits or in-state D-1 talent produced to fill a team with guys that want to play for the name on the front of the jersey.

So you are going to have to get guys that are going to come initially for playing time and a connection with the coaching staff. Then you make them want to play for the name on the front of the jersey.
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Wow! This is the first post in days that you've posted that actually made sense!!!! ;)
 
You can't automatically say we will be worse next yr. than we were this yr. until we know if there will be some influx of players and what their abilities are. Plus, you don't know how good or bad the remaining players will fluorish in a new system.
 
Anyone that thought the entire team was coming back after a coaching change is completely unrealistic.

Anyone that thought all the recruits would be coming to Iowa after a coaching change is completely unrealistic.

Next year might suck. It won't suck at the 10-22 level. Over half the complaints about Lickliter were about the slow-down boring offense and that Iowa needed to take down the peach baskets and have an up-tempo style with the next coach.

Done deal. McCafferey has an up-tempo style so that is an improvement in itself even if 10-22 is duplicated.

But next year's team won't be 10-22.
 
It isn't like Iowa is losing McDonald All Americans. We are losing Lickliter's recruits. Perhaps they would have developed into All Big 10 players under Lickliter. I have my doubts. Lickliter is gone.

We have a new coach that may want his own players? At this point we don't know what FM wants as players do we? Raveling ran off most of Lute's recruits because he KNEW he could get better players. How do we know that FM isn't thinking the same thing?

Would Iowa have been better with Larsen? Who knows, he was a talent by some services but he also comes from a small state. I don't know if he played against top Chicago talent or not. Could Iowa have used his height...yes. Does he fit into FM's style of play? Who knows, Lickliter recruited him for slow ball. Chances are he would have done fine at Iowa. People talk about the players not having a relationship with the new coach...that works both ways doesn't way.

By Lickliter standards this class was a pretty good class.

One thing...with the incoming class FM did not have an would not have many chances to fill positions because there were not going to be scholarships available. He was going to have to coach Lickliter's players almost entirely for the next 2 years. Would FM prefer to bring his own players to Iowa? I would say yes considering the type of style of ball Iowa played.

Why not start over with players that want to play for the coach instead of transferring next year or the year after, like Lickliter's players. Maybe if Lickliter had just gotten rid of all of Alford's players he might have been better off? That was the problem with Lickliter...he didn't have a clue what to do.

FM does...he may want those players but I don't think he is too worried if they don't come to Iowa. Unlike Lickliter, FM knows how to resurrect programs and that is what we have to keep in mind.

IMO if some of Lickliter's players want to transfer...so be it. Get it over with now rather than later and lets move on.
 
NewMexHawk said:
Get it over with now rather than later and lets move on.
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This is the key... if all of the guys who really wanted to play for Steve Alford had left right when Lickliter showed up, and he'd started with a 20-loss season and built from there, he may well still be the coach at Iowa. But it was the slow bleed that killed him... guys leaving every year because they never bought into Lickliter but hung around in hopes that things would somehow improve.

I'm not going to pretend that Fuller leaving isn't a killer and that I wasn't looking forward to seeing what Cody Larson could do. But if they didn't feel comfortable at Iowa or with McCaffery, then better off that they leave now rather than staying for a year or two and then transferring. As Lick found out, it's impossible to rebuild if you can't count on guys being there from one year to the next. And in response to another thread, if Caff really is the anti-Lickliter, I'm glad he didn't misrepresent himself to our recruits. They need to know what they're in for, or we're going to keep repeating the same cycle over and over again. Four years of constant defections has been terrible, but I can live with this latest episode as long as it's the last one.
 
How many scholarships does Iowa have each of the next three years?
You can bet that there will be more players leaving to free up scholarships for the new coach's brand of play.
When coachs leave, so do players - one way or another. I would not blame the players. Look at the overall picture of what is really happening.
There will be all kinds of reasons for us not winning, but it will take three years to find out if the basketball program can win again.
Do not get indignant about the players who leave - most of them will be pushed out. Wait and see.
They came here to play for us and become Hawkeyes. There were sold a bill of goods and that is being taken away from them. I would hate to have that happen to me. It is like going to work for a company because of your boss bringing you there. Then he gets fired and they fire you too. That is really tough when you are a 18-21 year old young man with no where to go.
I feel for the players. They are University of Iowa students who happen to play basketball and have had the rug pulled out from under them. Worse yet, how would you like to be left in that position and have your dad be the coach.
Enough said.
 
Why we are WORSE off without these guys.

I understand why you think that we are magically better off without these guys. We all want to believe that this will all help the team. It's a well developed phenomenon called cognitive dissonance. Look it up.

Now if we had lost Brommer and Archie, I would tend to agree with you. We need scholarships open so that Fran can get better athletes in here. However, we lost out best player and our best recruit. There is no one at this point that Fran can sign that will be as good as Fuller would have been next year. And it is unlikely that he can find anyone that would have been as good as Larson, who a bunch of posters were drooling over just a few days ago.

We are going to be worse next year than if we had these guys. It's a fact. Accept it.
 
hawk2012 said:
Why we are WORSE off without these guys.

I understand why you think that we are magically better off without these guys. We all want to believe that this will all help the team. It's a well developed phenomenon called cognitive dissonance. Look it up.

We are going to be worse next year than if we had these guys. It's a fact. Accept it.
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Will we be a better team next year? Probably not and I have a hard time believing many people are really arguing that.

Will we be better off in the long run?? Possibly. Not so long run??? If the kids didn't want to be here for one reason or another probably so.

Is it plausable that we can use those schollies and find better talent that truly wants to be here and as a result field a better team than we would have been 2 seasons from now?

I have no trouble buying into that.

I hear all of the Fuller hype and I have to say that I liked him as a player. He is a nice player. He can be a very good player at times. Fuller was going to be junior next season and I am going to boldly suggest that as a player his ceiling was just slightly above "a nice d1 player."

So the question is is it possible that we are better off losing a 2 year, "nice d1 player," who could help us this year but doesn't want to be here for a possible 4 year guy who's celing is ???????, who may want to be here?

As for Larson, I was excited about him and his potential, and I think he has a chance to be a really good player wherever he lands. Could have been a great Hawkeye. But if his heart is somehwere else, I think we can be better off. It's just a matter of taking the next 12 months and finding a guy who could help us more than Larson who is excited about being here.

I don't find that a stretch , I don't think many fans here are expecting to be world beaters next season.

I think you and the posters who are suggesting we may be better off are arguing 2 different things. You seem to be talking about next season only while they seem to be focusing on a broader time frame.

cognitive dissonance- does not fit here.
 
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