Why Iowa ties are important

[GhostofBTT]

Lute from Iowa? Davis from Iowa? Kirk from Iowa? Give me a break get somebody who views this job as a destination job and can recruit anywhere.

Like I said, it is not really important to get someone who is from Iowa, but someone who GETS Iowa. I don't think winning and recruiting will make someone embrace a coach. Even when Alford was winning and recruiting, people thought he was an arrogant *****.

That being said, two of your examples are pretty bad. Lute wasn't from Iowa, and he got tired of Iowa and left because he didn't like IC. Ferentz had coached at Iowa previously, and recieved a blassing from St. Hayden.

 

[GravyJones]

I never said they were. They were not, however, given the benefit of the doubt because nobody liked them. Steve Alford was run out of town the season after he won 25 games. Nobody had patience for him because nobody liked him.

He was a grade-A ***** that would have had a statue of him erected in front of CHA if he had won 25 games every year.

 

[Rawkhawk73]

I think it is very important to hire a coach who has, at one point, lived, worked, or coached in Iowa. I don't think it is the most important aspect by any measure, but it is very important. I believe part of our success in football the last 30 years hasn't been the coaching continuity, but because the coaches we have understand the community and the fans, and in turn are embraced by them.

When you look at the last 30 years of Hawkeye basketball, however, the exact opposite is true. Lute Olson had success here, but he never embraced the community. He was uncomfortable in Iowa City, and he left for another school. George Raveling didn't fit in well either, despite his relative success, and he left on his own after 3 seasons.

Tom Davis, on the other hand, fully embraced the community, and was in turn worshipped. Although he never won a conference title, and made the sweet 16 3 times in 13 years, he is still revered in Iowa, and even more telling, people are still bitter he is gone.

Then comes Alford and Lickliter, who were Indiana guys. Neither one of them seemed to embrace the state, and in turn, the state pretty much hated them right back.


I don't know how to explain it, but to be the man at Iowa, you need a certain je nes sais quoi to connect with the people here, and I hope that the next coach has it. One way to be sure is to get a guy who has experience in Iowa in the past, and knows how the people behave.

Ghost,

I think you're on the right track here. But I don't think the next coach needs to necessarily have Iowa ties as much as they need to EMBRACE Iowa and the traditions we have and the uniqueness we offer. Hayden wasn't anywhere close to "an Iowa guy" but he embraced the fans, the plight of the farmers, the university and everything else Iowa and retired with the following quote, "I'll always be a Hawk!". KF is the same way.....Pennsylvania guy that has embraced all things Iowa. TD, same thing.

Where the other guys have went wrong, is that they REFUSED to embrace the state. Lute, even though he was from Minnesota, was a West Coast guy to the core. Everything about Raveling was "Big City Guy". Everything about Alford was Indiana and Bobby Knight. Same with Lickliter and his freaking "Butler Way".....the guy even went so far as to call up Sean Keeler and rip him for what he felt was an unfair article ABOUT BUTLER.....while he was the Iowa coach!!

Look, this program has a rich tradition and that tradition is held DEARLY by the fans of this program. You can't just come in and pretend that none of that happened......that you can turn the Iowa program into Indiana or Butler and expect the fans to just embrace that. As I've said before, if the next coach comes in, embraces the tradition of the program, embraces the fans, rolls up his sleeves, works hard, and doesn't make excuses......they will be 3/4 of the way to getting this program back on track.

 

[GhostofBTT]

Ferentz is highly sought after because he's a good coach, and the football team wins games because he's a good coach. His happiness as the head coach at Iowa likely starts with the fact that he's getting paid very handsomely. Our sense of continuity means very little, if at all.

Ferentz works at Iowa because he understands what it takes to win at Iowa. He loves the state, and he understands the values of Iowans. Iowans are generally a pretty low key, keep your head down and do your damned work kind of people, who generally treat others with respect.

I know Iowans are generally like this, because I am generally not like this, and a bunch of the Iowans here always give me crap for being arrogant, showy, and super, super handsome.

 

[GravyJones]

Ferentz works at Iowa because he understands what it takes to win at Iowa. He loves the state, and he understands the values of Iowans. Iowans are generally a pretty low key, keep your head down and do your damned work kind of people, who generally treat others with respect.

I know Iowans are generally like this, because I am generally not like this, and a bunch of the Iowans here always give me crap for being arrogant, showy, and super, super handsome.

It has nothing to do with the people in the state or their values. Ferentz would have success pretty much anywhere he went. I'm glad we got him, and I'm glad he's happy here, but I won't fool myself into thinking he wouldn't bolt if he weren't so handsomely paid and a better offer came rolling in. He's been very well compensated for his coaching and the results, not because moms everywhere think he's a swell guy.

 

[LG210]

They have to want to be a Hawkeye--not simply a coach somewhere--but a Hawkeye. That doesn't guarantee them success, but without it, they will be gone one way or another in a short period of time.

 

[GhostofBTT]

It has nothing to do with the people in the state or their values. Ferentz would have success pretty much anywhere he went. I'm glad we got him, and I'm glad he's happy here, but I won't fool myself into thinking he wouldn't bolt if he weren't so handsomely paid and a better offer came rolling in. He's been very well compensated for his coaching and the results, not because moms everywhere think he's a swell guy.

I know, but I am not making the argument that Ferentz stays because he loves Iowa. I'm not an idiot. I know he stays here because he makes great money. Everyone knows that.

The point I am making is that one aspect of his success is because he is so beloved in the state, and the fans give him unconditional support, even when times are tough. Not the only part of his success, but a part none the less.

 

[clicheusername3]

I think this is about as novel as it gets:

I would look good in that! Where's the Field Hockey stick though?

 

[FreddyBrown]

I don't know how to explain it, but to be the man at Iowa, you need a certain je nes sais quoi to connect with the people here, and I hope that the next coach has it. One way to be sure is to get a guy who has experience in Iowa in the past, and knows how the people behave.

Boy, around these parts we don't cotton to fellers usin' fancy Frenchy words like that.

Worth noting, though, Tom Davis had midwest background but not Iowa background. Lute grew up in North Dakota. It wasn't where he was from but his personality that made him chafe against the fish bowl. Ditto Alford, from Indiana. Would it be okay to have someone who has lived or worked in the state? Sure, but it's an evaluation of the individual that matters. I think the idea that someone from elsewhere may have difficulty thriving here is somewhat insulting and narrow minded, to be honest. Est-ce que tu comprends?

 

[BSpringsteen]

So the fact that Ferentz stays at Iowa for probably less money than he would make in the MFL means nothing to you?

He stays because he is happy here. If at this point in his career, he was unhappy, he would have left.

 

[GravyJones]

I know, but I am not making the argument that Ferentz stays because he loves Iowa. I'm not an idiot. I know he stays here because he makes great money. Everyone knows that.

The point I am making is that one aspect of his success is because he is so beloved in the state, and the fans give him unconditional support, even when times are tough. Not the only part of his success, but a part none the less.

I would call it an extremely small and inconsequential aspect. He's beloved because of the success, not the other way around.

 

[clicheusername3]

Boy, around these parts we don't cotton to fellers usin' fancy Frenchy words like that.

Worth noting, though, Tom Davis had midwest background but not Iowa background. Lute grew up in North Dakota. It wasn't where he was from but his personality that made him chafe against the fish bowl. Ditto Alford, from Indiana. Would it be okay to have someone who has lived or worked in the state? Sure, but it's an evaluation of the individual that matters. I think the idea that someone from elsewhere may have difficulty thriving here is somewhat insulting and narrow minded, to be honest. Est-ce que tu comprends?

I have got to say that in my dealings with people. I do not mesh well with people from Indiana,Ohio, Missouri, Illinois. However I do seem to blend well with people from Minnesota, Wisconsin, Omaha and Lincoln (but not Nebraska), and Kansas. And I am being serious about that.

 

[GhostofBTT]

I think the idea that someone from elsewhere may have difficulty thriving here is somewhat insulting and narrow minded, to be honest. Est-ce que tu comprends?

I don't see how it is insulting. If anything, recent history would tell us the theory has merit.

Iowa is a unique place, and Iowa City is a unique community, completely unlike any other college town in America. It takes different tools to thrive in this environment, just like it takes certain tools to thrive anywhere.

The next coach doesn't need to be an Iowan, but he needs to understand Iowa.

 

[VintageHawkeye]

I have got to say that in my dealings with people. I do not mesh well with people from Indiana,Ohio, Missouri, Illinois. However I do seem to blend well with people from Minnesota, Wisconsin, Omaha and Lincoln (but not Nebraska), and Kansas.

Probably because you have Iowa ties in your closet.
Don't dismiss the talk.

 

[GhostofBTT]

I would call it an extremely small and inconsequential aspect. He's beloved because of the success, not the other way around.

Fair enough. However, I think if you had a coach like Lane Kiffen or (God forbid) Ron Zook winning at Iowa like Ferentz, they wouldn't be as unconditionally loved.

Of course I have no way to prove this assertion, so I think we can just leave it at that.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

I never said they were. They were not, however, given the benefit of the doubt because nobody liked them. Steve Alford was run out of town the season after he won 25 games. Nobody had patience for him because nobody liked him.

Iowa fans did give Alford the benefit of the doubt. Look at our attendence his first few years, they were selling out every night and there was more excitement about Iowa basketball in his first few years than there had been in a long time. People loved him at first, then came the Evans/ Recker team which fell apart, followed by the Pierre Pierce incident. There was a very specific reason why they didn't like him, it wasn't because he was cocky or an a**hole, it was because he allowed a rapist back on the team.

 

[PJHawk]

I think it is very important to hire a coach who has, at one point, lived, worked, or coached in Iowa.

That's a rather myopic view.

 

[GhostofBTT]

Iowa fans did give Alford the benefit of the doubt. Look at our attendence his first few years, they were selling out every night and there was more excitement about Iowa basketball in his first few years than there had been in a long time. People loved him at first, then came the Evans/ Recker team which fell apart, followed by the Pierre Pierce incident. There was a very specific reason why they didn't like him, it wasn't because he was cocky or an a**hole, it was because he allowed a rapist back on the team.

I was a UofI student at the time, and I agree with this with one addendum. Him being a cocky a hole didn't help his case very much.

 

[hawkeye12345]

I think it is very important to hire a coach who has, at one point, lived, worked, or coached in Iowa. I don't think it is the most important aspect by any measure, but it is very important. I believe part of our success in football the last 30 years hasn't been the coaching continuity, but because the coaches we have understand the community and the fans, and in turn are embraced by them.

When you look at the last 30 years of Hawkeye basketball, however, the exact opposite is true. Lute Olson had success here, but he never embraced the community. He was uncomfortable in Iowa City, and he left for another school. George Raveling didn't fit in well either, despite his relative success, and he left on his own after 3 seasons.

Tom Davis, on the other hand, fully embraced the community, and was in turn worshipped. Although he never won a conference title, and made the sweet 16 3 times in 13 years, he is still revered in Iowa, and even more telling, people are still bitter he is gone.

Then comes Alford and Lickliter, who were Indiana guys. Neither one of them seemed to embrace the state, and in turn, the state pretty much hated them right back.


I don't know how to explain it, but to be the man at Iowa, you need a certain je nes sais quoi to connect with the people here, and I hope that the next coach has it. One way to be sure is to get a guy who has experience in Iowa in the past, and knows how the people behave.

Once again, you're wrong. I initially thought you were just a smart azz that liked to add some humor to a post but I've now come to realize that you just don't get it.

Whether the next coach has ties to Iowa or not really makes no difference. It's whether he is a good recruiter and a good coach that is going to make the difference.

RMK had no ties to the state of Indiana, born in Ohio, played Ohio St, coached at Army.
Krzyzewski - had no ties to Duke, born in Illinois, played at Army, coach in Indiana and then Army before going to Duke
Bill Self had no ties to Kansas, he was born in OK, went to OK state
Roy Williams has ties to North Carolina (born in the state) but it took him 15 years of head coaching before he got his chance.
John Calipari has no ties to KY. He was born in PA and played ball a UNC-Wilmington and Clarion and he wasn't that good.

I would probably rate all 5 of those coaches as the best that there have been in the past 40 years and only one had any remote ties to the program that they are currently leading.

Ties have nothing to do in your success but they sure as he!! can be a crutch for mediocrity. So what if Keno went to high school in Iowa City. He only lived there from Soph. year on. So what if he sat on the bench holding a clipboard and a water bottle. I could care less if his dad was our coach...look at what RMK's kid has done at Texas Tech. He is on the hot seat.

Ties are just something that those of you that want Keno as our coach are trying to use.

 

[LG210]

I think the idea that someone from elsewhere may have difficulty thriving here is somewhat insulting and narrow minded, to be honest. Est-ce que tu comprends?

That is odd that you would find it insulting to, in essense, state that a person who is accustomed to one culture (or subculture) may have more difficulty adapting to a new culture than someone that is familiar with the culture or that someone who is not accustomed to a particular culture (or subculture) may not fully feel at home at in a new culture.

See Exhibit A: C. Vivian Stringer.