Who loses the most minutes...

[CP87]

Seriously? How can an fan get excited about an eighth place basketball program. Eighth? I guess that would be an improvement over last season. You heard what Deace said and it’s true. Why would a blue chipper ever choose a program the finishes in the bottom have of the league? Someone said in a post last year about how Iowa finished tied with for or five other teams for third or fourth place one season. That’s the optimistic perspective I guess. It also could be said the tied with four or five teams for eighth place, or were just one loss away from finishing in ninth place.

The incoming freshmen are going to have to make a huge contribution this upcoming season or the team, the program, and the fans are effed.

Eighth place program? According to the standings, Iowa is currently tied for 1st in the B1G. Now if they can just keep that up once the games start, this could be a special season!

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Very well said. I've always been the guy who loves the underdog role. It wouldn't interest me one bit to go to Alabama as a football recruit or Kentucky as a basketball recruit. Everyone has different priorities. I at least get why winning is some people's highest priority. It's funny that a lot of people on here don't understand at all that the stuff you listed can be important to some kids.

Yeah they tend to think that winning and being on that huge stage puts their future higher. For some it's very true. Others not so much it's not a guaranteed thing. I lean the way you do on that the stage Iowa has is plenty big. Especially if you help flip the culture of it. But some people like the color red and others green...

 

[MelroseHawkins]

The more I think about it I tend to agree with your take on it. I lean towards Wieskamp being a 3 anyway so if Moss and Dailey both improve even just a little and get more consistent it'd be tough to take them off the floor. Baer albeit injured off and on last yr really regressed I thought. He'll have to earn it even though he'll be a senior and a favorite of Frans I can't see him just being grandfathered in if he's not playing as well...

Remember Baer also seems to get gassed quickly at times. Always had. I think early on in his career he was effective secondary to the lack or inexperience of some talent around him. He had a good overall game so was quite valuable at the time and seemed to be ahead of others at that young age so got many minutes. I think others and the talent added caught up to him and may have contributed to the decrease in minutes. This is kind of why last year was such an anomaly. Having Weiskamp coming in with his 3 shot is not going to help Baer's minutes unless Baer can find his shot again.

Will see what happens with Dailey's minutes not that Connor is back. Dailey was playing some at point and was pretty effective but not the ideal spot for him. Will see if he can still ascend or if his minutes will decrease again.

 

[CP87]

Very well said. I've always been the guy who loves the underdog role. It wouldn't interest me one bit to go to Alabama as a football recruit or Kentucky as a basketball recruit. Everyone has different priorities. I at least get why winning is some people's highest priority. It's funny that a lot of people on here don't understand at all that the stuff you listed can be important to some kids.

Things are different now as these kids are immersed in the "RINGZZZ" culture (an NBA reference, but easily applies here). There was a time when a star on a less-talented team could fight and scratch and take his team to heights few could achieve, and even though his team may have come up short of the championship, he would be admired for the fight.

Now, it is championship or bust. If a player does not win a championship, the media paints him as flawed and second-tier, with no thought at all given to the contributing factors. For much of the media, teams/players don't win championships any more, only lose them. That is, when the championship is over, the focus is on who is to blame for the loss, not what the winner did to achieve victory. I suppose it is more sensational/compelling, and there are always things that a losing team could have done different, so there is plenty of fuel for this fire.

It wasn't always this way, but with a proliferation of 24-hour sports coverage lots of content is needed, and this is easy fodder. So for the kids who have grown up in this culture, it is better to be a 4th option on a team that cruises to a championship without having to break a sweat than to work your tail off to try to elevate a flawed team, only to come up short and get crucified for your failings. Kids gang up on the most talented AAU programs, good high school athletes switch schools just to team up with the other best players, 5 of the top 10 kids in the country go to Kentucky, and All-NBA talents join teams that are already champions.

Joe Wieskamp or DJ Carton toiling away on their lower-rung MAC teams is a real rarity these days. I admired them the more for choosing that path.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Things are different now as these kids are immersed in the "RINGZZZ" culture (an NBA reference, but easily applies here). There was a time when a star on a less-talented team could fight and scratch and take his team to heights few could achieve, and even though his team may have come up short of the championship, he would be admired for the fight.

Now, it is championship or bust. If a player does not win a championship, the media paints him as flawed and second-tier, with no thought at all given to the contributing factors. For much of the media, teams/players don't win championships any more, only lose them. That is, when the championship is over, the focus is on who is to blame for the loss, not what the winner did to achieve victory. I suppose it is more sensational/compelling, and there are always things that a losing team could have done different, so there is plenty of fuel for this fire.

It wasn't always this way, but with a proliferation of 24-hour sports coverage lots of content is needed, and this is easy fodder. So for the kids who have grown up in this culture, it is better to be a 4th option on a team that cruises to a championship without having to break a sweat than to work your tail off to try to elevate a flawed team, only to come up short and get crucified for your failings. Kids gang up on the most talented AAU programs, good high school athletes switch schools just to team up with the other best players, 5 of the top 10 kids in the country go to Kentucky, and All-NBA talents join teams that are already champions.

Joe Wieskamp or DJ Carton toiling away on their lower-rung MAC teams is a real rarity these days. I admired them the more for choosing that path.

One thing is for sure. We are in an era where most of the top kids are all trying to be on a 'super team' The country is smaller now than it used to be with all these national AAU teams and whatnot. Social media has these kids constantly in touch with each other. The NBA players are all trying to do their version of it. So it's easy to see the monkey see monkey do part of it. By DJ possibly have coming to Iowa and starting the domino effect of maybe having Patrick, Brooks and Foster we'd have been doing pretty much that... But was no to be.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

I was responding to your comment that you're not convinced he will be a starter.

i don't think you pencil him in to start the season as a starter. you do the same as you did with Garza. give him minutes, let him prove himself. by mid B1G season, Garza was a staple. we don't need JW to start, that's a lot of pressure. but let him figure it out, then if he does, you swap JW and Baer.

 

[NikeHawk21]

i don't think you pencil him in to start the season as a starter. you do the same as you did with Garza. give him minutes, let him prove himself. by mid B1G season, Garza was a staple. we don't need JW to start, that's a lot of pressure. but let him figure it out, then if he does, you swap JW and Baer.

Garza did start from the beginning. He got moved to the bench for a few games in non conference but then got his starting spot back.

 

[BigD]

They tied for 3rd 2 years in a row. That's pretty darn pessimistic to not acknowledge that. It's funny that someone so negative doesn't even know that. I'm not just talking about you either. I see posts a lot that say we finish at the bottom half of the conference all the time, yet last year was the first time it happened since Marble was a sophomore. I guess some people are just so negative it warps their memory.

I can honesty say that I always wish the best for the coaches and players. I just want the games to be enjoyable and fun to watch. Winning our own division and playing against the East division champ just once every three years I think is doable and it would be a lot of fun to watch and cheer for. Our defense is sufficient and if Brian can get the offense going like he did against Ohio State then things are going to be heading in the right direction.

 

[BigD]

Well their are reasons a kid in Cartons shoes could have picked Iowa. He'd have had the keys to the offense pretty much day 1. He would have been really close to home. By coming other top recruits could follow (Brooks, Foster paired with Patrick Mcaffery and Wieskamp Garza and Nunge would still be here) Iowa could have improved a ton really quickly. It's a domino effect that Carton could have started and it'd have been easy to look ahead and project that. To some the idea of building up a program that isn't already established would be a fun and rewarding challenge. Especially if it's one that's close to home. He could have been a really revered local hero. Now he'll just be another run of the mill player in 5 or 6 yrs forgotten about at a place like Michigan. Iowa had more going for it to try and get him then people seemed to have thought. But he just didn't look at it that way or want to prioritize things that way. Totally his right to do so. Doesn't make him wrong it just makes him similar to most other kids that have been rated that highly..

Totally agree with every thing you just said. Sometimes when a person is young they have trouble seeing the big picture. Maybe with Fran’s son being fully healthy and a top fifty recruit coming in it will be enough to push us up over the top. Maybe these kids will surprise everyone.

 

[BigD]

Eighth place program? According to the standings, Iowa is currently tied for 1st in the B1G. Now if they can just keep that up once the games start, this could be a special season!

I was just refering to Deace’s comments in the podcast. He said he didn’t understand how Iowa fans can just seem so indifferent to seeded so low in the B1G tournament on a regular basis.

 

[Northside Hawk]

They tied for 3rd 2 years in a row. That's pretty darn pessimistic to not acknowledge that. It's funny that someone so negative doesn't even know that. I'm not just talking about you either. I see posts a lot that say we finish at the bottom half of the conference all the time, yet last year was the first time it happened since Marble was a sophomore. I guess some people are just so negative it warps their memory.

They did tie for third two years in a row. The won some road games in some tough environments. Fran and the Hawks deserve credit for that.

But they also deserve a lot of blame for four consecutive opening round losses to double digits seeds in the conference tournament. And whatever negative effects it may have brought about.

Seriously, the odds of losing opening round games to double digits seeds four years in a row have got to be close to preposterous. But we made it happen.

Of course the odds of finishing in the bottom 10% of the country in Ken Pom's "luck" four out of eght years probably don't exist. But we made that happen, too.

 

[PCHawk]

They did tie for third two years in a row. The won some road games in some tough environments. Fran and the Hawks deserve credit for that.

But they also deserve a lot of blame for four consecutive opening round losses to double digits seeds in the conference tournament. And whatever negative effects it may have brought about.

Seriously, the odds of losing opening round games to double digits seeds four years in a row have got to be close to preposterous. But we made it happen.

Of course the odds of finishing in the bottom 10% of the country in Ken Pom's "luck" four out of eght years probably don't exist. But we made that happen, too.

He deserves plenty of blame for sure. But he isn't the terrible coach everyone says he is. He's got good and bad qualities that make him an average to slightly above average coach. Last year the team fell apart bad. That happens all the time all over the country even to great coaches. The question is, is that a random bad luck season where everything snowballed? Or is that something that Fran caused with coaching? If it's the former, the rest of Fran's "body of work" show that he's above average to good. If it's the latter, he's average at best. We just really don't know yet what happened last year. If it never happens again, Fran will prove to be Davis like. Even tho his resume won't be as good since the programs they inherited were night and day different.

 

[Northside Hawk]

He deserves plenty of blame for sure. But he isn't the terrible coach everyone says he is. He's got good and bad qualities that make him an average to slightly above average coach. Last year the team fell apart bad. That happens all the time all over the country even to great coaches. The question is, is that a random bad luck season where everything snowballed? Or is that something that Fran caused with coaching? If it's the former, the rest of Fran's "body of work" show that he's above average to good. If it's the latter, he's average at best. We just really don't know yet what happened last year. If it never happens again, Fran will prove to be Davis like. Even tho his resume won't be as good since the programs they inherited were night and day different.

Fran's got a long way to go to prove to be even Davis like. We are far enough removed from the Lickliter stench at this stage that what Fran inherited shouldn't be in the discussion anymore. He progressed nicely for five years. Now he is sliding the other direction. You're right, and others have mentioned it too, this is a positively critical year for him on so many fronts. Even if he has Gary's benjamins to fall back on he won't be fooling recruits.

He could start by reversing his .309 winning percentage in games decided by six points or fewer. Watch those games sometime as I'm sure you do. When we try to execute with the game on the line it's like the other team's coach is in our huddle.
Bo Ryan was .604 in those games during his long career at Wisconsin. I'd be happy with .500. It would increase our NCAA chances as well as a higher seed.

I don't know about Davis like. His overall body of work at Iowa has been more similar to Wisconsin's Steve Yoder from the early eighties to early nineties than to Davis.