When Did It All Go Wrong?

hawkeyefan4

hawkeyefan4

Well-Known Member
Okay. I've been spending a lot of my day reading the boards and the common theme that people are talking about is:
  • This team no longer "likes" each other
  • Team is fed up with RDM's selfish play

I honestly didn't see this but I'm willing to have an open mind. My question is when do you all think that this happened? The team was playing great at one point and they all talked about how nobody cares how much playing time they get, how much they score, etc. They only care about winning. Something happened...what do you think it was?
 
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After they lost to MSU at home even with MSU's injuries, we lost some confidence and swag. That was the beginning of the end.
 
Whenever AW lost his mojo so did the Hawks.

The team no longer has multiple threats*only Marble as a consistent scorer.

Fran never looked for different starting lineups. White should have shifted to the bench and Jok should have got a few starts to see if he could become a 10-13 points a game option.
 
It went all wrong because Fran failed to eventually whittle the rotation down to 8 and he for whatever reason decided not to shake up the starting line-up despite slow starts to the games, and absolutely horrific starts to the second half. In each of these last 8 games the Hawks had the lead or were tied at the break, and had to play tough to get there. It's not a toughness issues. It's a "wrong people getting the minutes" issue.

It's too late now, but I would like to have seen Fran go with Gesselle, Marble, Utoff, White (playing the 4) and Basabe or Oleseani, with Basabe or Oleseani getting big minutes off the bench. I would like to have seen him let Clemons play some extended minutes as the 7th man to see what he could do without constantly looking over his shoulder, particularly when Gesselle goes on a bad streak. McCabe, Oglesby and Woodbury should have been limited to spot minutes. If you get a rare day when Ogelsby is hot, you ride it out, otherwise, you go with the first seven for the majority of the game, subbing in for each other to get rest. You know, a rotation like every other team in the nation utilizes.

I'm not trying to dig on Woodbury. I really don't know how good he is or how good he could be, but he is a horrible fit for this system. If he isn't going to rebound and block shots (he does neither with any consistency) there is literally no role for him in this offense or defense. I'm not trying to dig on Oglesby either, but he is purely a streak shooter. In his three years here he has not once shot himself into a hot streak after missing his first couple of shots. He's either hot or not. I feel bad for McCabe. There is a role for him if he were committed to simply rebounding and shooting the occasional three.

Defensively I don't understand why Iowa hedges ball screens so aggressively, and why the guards insist on going over the top of ball screens even when they are being set 30 feet out. The over-aggressive hedging, coupled with going over the top creates all of these constant rotations that eventually lead to an open look. Watching games the last couple of days I don't see any other teams hedging that hard on ball screens.

I think the "toughness" excuse is a cliche. This team played a tough first half against Mich. State, and toughened up to overcome slow starts against Minnesota, Indiana and Illinois to get the leads at half. I think the problem is much easier to solve - the wrong guys are getting the wrong minutes, and playing the wrong roles. Regardless of the starting five, Fran should have started the second half of these games with the group that played most effectively together in the first half.
 
I think something happened during that long stretch of downtime in February. They were riding high after beating Michigan by 18 points, then had a week off and beat Penn St by 12. Then they went to Bloomington and the game got cancelled. That was the beginning of the end for the Hawks. They played the Badgers that weekend and it was the second game they played in 14 days. Something obviously happened during that long 14 day layoff, but what it is I have no idea. Chemistry issues? Did Fran start changing some things? Did the team get cocky? Overworked in practice? Fatigued?

No idea what happened, but seems pretty likely that something happened during that period.
 
LASBUR said:
You want Jok playing instead of White ??
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I think White should have moved to the bench, he has no confidence in his shot

Yes, I would have like to see Jok start. The Hawks need that second consistent scorer as a starter. Jok is a bit raw but has tools that could have allowed him to be that guy.
 
I agree he has the tools I just feel he has been brought along about as fast as he can handle . JMO
 
The Wisconsin game is a great example of guys getting the wrong minutes and playing the wrong roles. Before the game the article was written about Fran defending McCabe. Then the game comes along and it almost looked like Fran played McCabe 20 minutes out of spite because McCable was playing so poorly. Then McCabe ends up getting the last shot off and missed it horribly. Again, not trying to dig on McCabe, but just to point out that losing to Wisconsin at home wasn't a "toughness" issue - the team played plenty tough against Wisconsin. You can't be in a position to beat Wisconsin if you are not playing tough. The problem is wrong guys getting the wrong minutes, trying to play too many guys instead of settling in to a 7 man, with an occasional 8th man off the bench rotation.
 
It all went wrong the day we decided not to renew Mr. Davis's contract. We then lost Collison to Kansas and it's been one nutshot after another since then!
 
My two cents ... (and I have no coaching experience on my resume) ... but I have not been a fan of playing 11 guys. I felt like the guys could not get in a rhythm because they kept coming off and going to ... the bench. Just seemed like our rotations varied so much. We heard talk all season about how "deep" this team is. In my opinion, I think we have the talent level to play about 8 people ...

This team just lost its mental focus... And it was all downhill. You can see it in their faces ... The emotion has left this team. And the team focused too much on Marble to make a play.
 
A. The defense has had huge drop off after Mel was out, but still is suffering why?

Mel Avg +22mn since return, only 16, despite scoring at an elite eFG 13-20, and his elite O-Reb and ability to turn those into scores at the rim, Fran only plays him 14 gm and vs IL 3-4 in 14mn. Remember the team on the floor wjen ia down 20-6? Mcacbre, ogles, gesell, marble, oly. (only 1 rebounder and 1 inside defender) Got to get him back up to +22mn as Sr and is elite defender and o-rebounder and transition finisher.

Oglesby. Avg +24 mins/gm, but can't rebound or play interior defense. Ogles HAS been on the court for most of this awful run of defensive games.

Uthoff. Played +16mins in 14 of 1st 19 GMs with double digit scoring in 14. But has less than 16mins in 8 of last 13. Including 4 of last 5, when the defense has collapsed, (or the entire 2nd half when he and Mel sat next to each unable to do what they did early in the BIG season.) he was 6th man of the yr candidate whe he was playing, now, can't even get into the game.

Gesell. Is now a shooter. Double digit shooter 3x in 1st 12 BIG games, but now, 5 of last 6, with terrible results. 22-67 and 5-23 from 3. Mike is taking shots Mel and Jarrod used to take.

Confidence. macabre, uthoff, and Mel get benched and their confidence is showing, these guys are all playing less, and playing worse than earlier in the yr.

Since Mel's illness; guys like mike, and Josh have stepped up the shots taken, their eFG% isn't like others, ogles defense isnt nearly what uthoff or Mel bring to the overall game. Get ball to Whitey, uthoff, and Mel. Thaws are the 3 elite eFG % guys on the team. Ogles and Mike, shoot less, get ball to these 3.

Fran. Please decide to go with a rotation that makes sense.


kctom said:
So I agree with Windsor and laid out this case right after the Illinois game.

Mel got sick, Gesell and Oglesby started shooting (last few games poorly, Gesell 22-77, Oglesby 8-27), 0-16 last night. Now add 'The Shooting Subs' mccabres 3-7 11 mins and Joks 0-2 in 5 mins ( 3-9 in 16 mins). These are the teams poorest eFG% shooters and they are taking the most shots. 3-25.

Uthoff, whitey,and Mel go 7-10, and are IOWAs best eFG% but they can't get shots. Several of these FGA were the result of O-Rebs, (2nd chance points, not assisted, and drew fouls and FT).

Rebounding. During IOWAs dominant run to #10, rebound margin hovered in the top 10 nationally and #1 in BIG. Since Mels Sickness, IOWA has been out rebounded in each game. Fran has responded by 'downsizing' or reducing Basabe and Uthoff's mins, in favor of 3 guard configurations resultingin more mins for Oglesby, Jok, and small line ups. You can run when you get ALl the rebounds and get easy transition boards, but DRM gets 0, Olgesby, Jok, and Gesell combine for 2-3, and NW pounds for many o-boards.

FTs. The outside perimeter team shoots 3s but, outside of marble, doesn't get to the FT line. Iowa used to make more than others would attempt. Well that has leveled off now too.

In summary, there may or may nit be 'chemistry' issues, but there is clear quantitative differences in who is Now playing, who is now shooting, team rebounding and transition offense and fewer FT attempted. Those are not 'chemistry' those are player rotation dependent and specific player combination packages, and those are on Fran.
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This is attempt to answer your question from a qualitative perspective
(and is re-posted from another thread, apologies)
 
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NickM said:
It went all wrong because Fran failed to eventually whittle the rotation down to 8 and he for whatever reason decided not to shake up the starting line-up despite slow starts to the games, and absolutely horrific starts to the second half. In each of these last 8 games the Hawks had the lead or were tied at the break, and had to play tough to get there. It's not a toughness issues. It's a "wrong people getting the minutes" issue.



It's too late now, but I would like to have seen Fran go with Gesselle, Marble, Utoff, White (playing the 4) and Basabe or Oleseani, with Basabe or Oleseani getting big minutes off the bench. I would like to have seen him let Clemons play some extended minutes as the 7th man to see what he could do without constantly looking over his shoulder, particularly when Gesselle goes on a bad streak. McCabe, Oglesby and Woodbury should have been limited to spot minutes. If you get a rare day when Ogelsby is hot, you ride it out, otherwise, you go with the first seven for the majority of the game, subbing in for each other to get rest. You know, a rotation like every other team in the nation utilizes.

I'm not trying to dig on Woodbury. I really don't know how good he is or how good he could be, but he is a horrible fit for this system. If he isn't going to rebound and block shots (he does neither with any consistency) there is literally no role for him in this offense or defense. I'm not trying to dig on Oglesby either, but he is purely a streak shooter. In his three years here he has not once shot himself into a hot streak after missing his first couple of shots. He's either hot or not. I feel bad for McCabe. There is a role for him if he were committed to simply rebounding and shooting the occasional three.

Defensively I don't understand why Iowa hedges ball screens so aggressively, and why the guards insist on going over the top of ball screens even when they are being set 30 feet out. The over-aggressive hedging, coupled with going over the top creates all of these constant rotations that eventually lead to an open look. Watching games the last couple of days I don't see any other teams hedging that hard on ball screens.

I think the "toughness" excuse is a cliche. This team played a tough first half against Mich. State, and toughened up to overcome slow starts against Minnesota, Indiana and Illinois to get the leads at half. I think the problem is much easier to solve - the wrong guys are getting the wrong minutes, and playing the wrong roles. Regardless of the starting five, Fran should have started the second half of these games with the group that played most effectively together in the first half.
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NickM, this is very well said. You and I are on the same page. This is really about the coaching strategy and decisions. Please tell me what Fran's record is the past couple years in games decided by 5 points or less.

I love what Fran has done for the program, but have to questions his game management. So much of this would be forgotten if somehow Hawks surprise people and win a game or 2 in NCAA. They are capable, but it would be a small shock at this point.

I can't imagine how brutal the second guessing will be if they lose 1st round game in tourney.
Go Hawks!
 
Is it possible when you don't have high enough quality skilled players or coaching abilities to play in a league like the B1G you play gimic strategies (Butler Way or playing eleven guys). This isn't an accusation but a sincere question. I bet you Lute Olsen could flat out win the B1G with these same exact players. He had a knack for taking a player and discovering their best abilities and then giving them a role to play on the team that utilized those skills and by designing an offence that would get the most out of each player individually and on a team concept. Get his DNA and clone him.

I will agree with the comments about the extreme difficulty of getting a team chemistry when constantly mixing up the players on the court at any given time. This makes it very difficult for roles to be defined. Another thing that is difficult to understand is how can a team that has so much height find it so hard to get the ball low into the post and at the same time allow other teams to do it to us over and over and over again???
 
The more I think about it the more I think its all about substitution patterns. It usually takes a few minutes to get into the flow of the game but 4 starters come out at the first tv timeout. Now we have 4 New guys coming in with Marble and they spend the next few minutes trying to get into the flow. Now you're 8 minutes into the game before anyone is in the flow. That's a lot of time for an inferior team to hang around and build confidence.

Even after that you get your starters back in but they are playing without their best player because now Marble is on the bench. It just makes it to difficult for anyone to get into the flow. If Fran would sprinkle some reserves in with the starters instead of the hockey substitutions we would be better off.
 
PCHawk said:
The more I think about it the more I think its all about substitution patterns. It usually takes a few minutes to get into the flow of the game but 4 starters come out at the first tv timeout. Now we have 4 New guys coming in with Marble and they spend the next few minutes trying to get into the flow. Now you're 8 minutes into the game before anyone is in the flow. That's a lot of time for an inferior team to hang around and build confidence.

Even after that you get your starters back in but they are playing without their best player because now Marble is on the bench. It just makes it to difficult for anyone to get into the flow. If Fran would sprinkle some reserves in with the starters instead of the hockey substitutions we would be better off.
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This seems like a reasonable assumption. Chemistry takes time to develop and every opponents requires a different chemistry which in turn requires players to play together long enough to find that in game chemistry.
 
BigD said:
This seems like a reasonable assumption. Chemistry takes time to develop and every opponents requires a different chemistry which in turn requires players to play together long enough to find that in game chemistry.
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I think NickM has it right but if Fran is going to insist on going with 10 players I think we are better off with the hockey style subs that we had earlier in the year versus random configurations.

When Clemons stopped getting minutes and basabe went out we started playing combinations we hadn't seen all year. The result break after bream down defensive assignments; **** poor spacing in half court; looking over their shoulder.

Consistent rotations lead to chemistry, defensive communications and morale as you know what to expect.
 
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