What is JVB's deal anyway?

[JHHawk]

The passer ratings are very puzzling. Robinson had 15 interceptions to Vandys 7, 20 tds to vandys 25, had 2100 yards to Vandys 3020 yards, 55% completion percentage to Vandys 59%.....Vandy was better in every category cept yardage per attempt (8.0 to 7.8) and yet DRob is a couple of points ahead of Vandys passer ratings....very confusing. Vandy is a much better passer,no doubt,but DRob had a few bigger plays due to scrambling around and finding receivers deep. Maybe they put running yards in the formula,somehow?

 

[Section136]

He was way down the list of problem areas for Iowa last year or next.

Actually he was pretty high on that list in games Iowa lost last year.

51.9% Completions with 202 YPG and TD/INT mark of 7/5 in our 6 losses last year. JVB needs to put up better numbers against good defenses.

 

[hogeye]

Yeah, they considered his rushing yards in passing efficiency...that's it. If anything it's just yet another demonstration as to why stats get too much attention. I would have to care about statistics enough to go into it too deeply, but if I had to make an educated guess I would guess that it's because the college passing efficiency rating takes those numbers and divides them by the numbers of attempts and, again just guessing, I assume JVB had maybe nearly double the passing attempts that Denard had.

 

[HomerChampless]

A missing puzzle piece required to make Iowa's passing game better is to get more athletic receivers than we've been accustomed to. Let's hope Davis' schemes lure 'em to Iowa.

It was too easy to guard our best receiver last season. No double teams were usually needed.

 

[JHHawk]

Vandy had 404 attempts to 258 for DRob. Again, DRob averaged 8.4 yards per attempt to 7.8 yards per attempt for Vandy....less than a yard difference. That is the only stat in which DRob was better than Vandy....DRob has 15 interceptions to 7 for Vandy? In almost 150 less pass attempts? Right there shows you how stats lie.

 

[Ronco]

This whole thing about passer ratings, dropped passes, and statistics confuse me. What doesn't confuse me is this- does JVB make plays to extend drives and win games? His record of 7-7 as a starter would suggest no.

Nobody knows if JVB had more dropped passes than anybody else in the Big. It's not an official or kept statistic. Just because you heard a P by P/Color guy spout it doesn't make it fact. Did he have some drops? You bet, but he also missed some throws. That's part of the game.

The time to have this discussion is AFTER next year.

 

[hawkforlife9]

I wonder how much McNutt did to make our QBs look good? He was such a stud.

 

[RocknRollface]

Incorrect. Though he was bad on the road, its more of being horrible against good defenses, and good against bad ones. As others have suggested, this is not uncommon of an average QB.

Also, enough with the "dropped passes" excuse. Though some of those were by McNutt, Vandy and his numbers were greatly enhanced by having arguably the best Iowa WR of all time to throw to.

How is it an excuse? Its a fact. Iowa had the most drops in the conference. Period. Its not up for debate.

The receivers killed drives all day against psu in particular.

McNutt had more drops than he did great catches this year. Also McNutt was not particularly great at getting open when he went up against good defenses. Some of that can be attributed to Iowas offensive design lacking.

 

[AreWeThereYet]

It seems that Vandenberg has two faults that some people think will doom him to everlasting mediocrity.

#1 He’s jumpy and he panics in the pocket. His pocket presence is poor. Against weaker defenses he did show solid improvement as the season went on. Against good defenses he continued to struggle and made no major headway at the end of the season.

#2 He doesn’t seem to really have a good idea what he wants to do behind the line of scrimmage. He’s definitely not a natural at escaping defenders. If he’s flushed from the pocket he will often throw awkwardly with poor mechanics. He’s not someone who will beat you with his feet, even though he does have some mobility and raw athleticism.

I don’t discount dramatic improvement. Banks and Tate both came into the program with a good knowledge of how to use their feet, each in a very different way. Aside from those two, Iowa quarterbacks have not been particularly good at moving with the ball behind the line of scrimage. I tend to think the problem was at least partly on the coaching staff. With coach Davis it may be a strong point. I really do expect Vandenberg to work extensively on that part of the game. Most college quarterbacks show the most improvement after their first season anyway. I wonder how much they can clean up those problems.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Which really supports the fact you were contesting originally...that he is an average QB.

I'm not sure you can pin games where we couldn't run the ball consistently on JVB. Our offense is predicated on play action...if you aren't concerned with our running game, guess what, our offense is going to struggle against good defenses.

We also had some breakdowns in the oline, especially against Penn State.

I simply don't think he is an average QB. Room for growth, yes, but average no. Others on here were saying we were spoiled with Stanzi. If JVB's numbers are that of an average QB, Stanzi was something like 17 TD's against 16 interceptions his JR year. Now that's average at best...or actually much less. But would others call Stanzi's JR year average...no he was clutch. He was freaking scarey because you never knew who was showing up that game. So Stanzi improved his SR year...I think JVB can do the same, and he's more accurate than Stanzi ever thought of being.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

so which is it poor play by Stanzi or poor play calling by KOK, or is it that some of the dropped passes by the wr were the fault OF Stanzi, for his poor play and yet defend JVB because of all the drops by the WR, and yeah the defense gave up to many last minute game winning drives that they didn't do the previous year.
its amazing how you twist things to suit your arguement, give credit to the D when the team wins by ignoreing the game winning scores by Stanzi, and blame stanzi for the losses when the D gave up game winning scores
sorry throwing for 3000+ yards 25 TD's and 6 and 7 INT'S are not #'s of a bad QB let alone a poor one.
in both season the D was not there like it has been in the past

Just to be clear, how many game winning drives did Ricky make in 2010...one...Indiana. He had chances at Arizona, Wisconsin, OSU, and NW. I'll give him a pass on his terrible play against Minnesota where he put up 17 points.

We had a top 10 defense in 2010 and our offense was something like 50th in the country. You can't suck on offense and give the other team the ball consistently after 3 and outs when the game is on the line, and then blame the defense for giving up points late after they have played the entire second half. The offense needs to continue to score. Look at all the games we lost in 2010, the defense got stops in the second half...then just didn't get stops in the last drive. We just couldn't score after they got stops.

 

[herbyhawk]

he put Iowa ahead in most of those losses only to see the defense give up the winning score, ussually with very litte time to score to none, again you deflect blame from the defense to Stanzi.
i get it you hated Stanzi and are always in the minority of always thinking the backup is and will be better

 

[MoseSchrute]

We had a top 10 defense in 2010 and our offense was something like 50th in the country. You can't suck on offense and give the other team the ball consistently after 3 and outs when the game is on the line, and then blame the defense for giving up points late after they have played the entire second half. The offense needs to continue to score. Look at all the games we lost in 2010, the defense got stops in the second half...then just didn't get stops in the last drive. We just couldn't score after they got stops.

It's crystal clear, but some people still refuse to see it. Often times they wouldn't even have needed to score, just get another first down or two.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

It's crystal clear, but some people still refuse to see it. Often times they wouldn't even have needed to score, just get another first down or two.

Thank you Mose. You are a reasonable and intelligent man. Damn, I hate beating my head against this wall of ignorance. A score would have been nice, but 3-4 first downs run the clock out or very close to it. I'm not a Stanzi hater...and I don't think JVB should have replaced him at any point. He earned his time and deserved to play without concern for being replaced, but to think he was clutch in 2010 or was an elite QB in the latter half of 2010 is seriously misguided.

 

[hogeye]

I'm not sure you can pin games where we couldn't run the ball consistently on JVB. Our offense is predicated on play action...if you aren't concerned with our running game, guess what, our offense is going to struggle against good defenses.

We also had some breakdowns in the oline, especially against Penn State.

First of all, I never said JVB is the only problem.

Secondly, it's not strictly about pinning losses on him, but to discount the fact that the QB takes the lion's share of credit and blame is simply being disingenuous to reality on your part.

Lastly, on this counterpoint, I can take the same point you've made and use it against JVB. Opening up the run requires you to be able to have a QB that can make plays with his arm.

JVB did a good, at times great, job against lesser to mediocre teams. However, an above average QB will play well against above average D's. He did not, consistently.

I simply don't think he is an average QB. Room for growth, yes, but average no. Others on here were saying we were spoiled with Stanzi. If JVB's numbers are that of an average QB, Stanzi was something like 17 TD's against 16 interceptions his JR year. Now that's average at best...or actually much less. But would others call Stanzi's JR year average...no he was clutch. He was freaking scarey because you never knew who was showing up that game. So Stanzi improved his SR year...I think JVB can do the same, and he's more accurate than Stanzi ever thought of being.

You'll have to define "average" for me. It's possible we don't agree on that. I would be willing to concede that he's maybe at the upper side of average, but if you want to gloat statistics it's not going to prove he's much better than average at best.

It's already been pointed out in this thread that he's statistically inferior to Denard Robinson in passing efficiency last season and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that Denard is, at best, an average passer.

I know it seems like I am being harsh on JVB because I am not in awe over what he did. Look, the kid has a nice arm. He has some definite play-making ability. He isn't totally inept, but to borrow a previously used line...you're being disingenuous by giving him too much credit based on last year.

He has to be reliable on the road. He has to be able to do a better job stringing drives together, especially in critical situations. He has to do a better job getting the team into the red zone and then into the end zone.

He's a good QB, but very good and great QB's do these things more consistently...and that's just a short list.

 

[Ronco]

First of all, I never said JVB is the only problem.

Secondly, it's not strictly about pinning losses on him, but to discount the fact that the QB takes the lion's share of credit and blame is simply being disingenuous to reality on your part.

Lastly, on this counterpoint, I can take the same point you've made and use it against JVB. Opening up the run requires you to be able to have a QB that can make plays with his arm.

JVB did a good, at times great, job against lesser to mediocre teams. However, an above average QB will play well against above average D's. He did not, consistently.



You'll have to define "average" for me. It's possible we don't agree on that. I would be willing to concede that he's maybe at the upper side of average, but if you want to gloat statistics it's not going to prove he's much better than average at best.

It's already been pointed out in this thread that he's statistically inferior to Denard Robinson in passing efficiency last season and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that Denard is, at best, an average passer.

I know it seems like I am being harsh on JVB because I am not in awe over what he did. Look, the kid has a nice arm. He has some definite play-making ability. He isn't totally inept, but to borrow a previously used line...you're being disingenuous by giving him too much credit based on last year.

He has to be reliable on the road. He has to be able to do a better job stringing drives together, especially in critical situations. He has to do a better job getting the team into the red zone and then into the end zone.

He's a good QB, but very good and great QB's do these things more consistently...and that's just a short list.

Other then that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

 

[FUISU]

The way you guys are using JVB statistics are like a lamppost to a drunk being used more for support than illumination.

Look at the body of work Stanzi did. Him and two freshmen RB's brought that offense to the Orange Bowl.

You can also say that JVB with 3 NFL Olinemen and a all purpose back brought us 0 trophy game wins and 1 road win.

I don't care about stats. Stanzi had some awesome senior stats but anybody with half a brain would've taken the Junior version gun slinging americstanzi over the I don't wanna make a mistake senior version. But to compare JVB's body of work to any modern QB: Drew Tate, Chandler, Banks, Jake C, Stanzi I'd say JVB finishes ahead of Jake C but behind everyone else mentioned above

 

[DarthKinnick]

The way you guys are using JVB statistics are like a lamppost to a drunk being used more for support than illumination.

Look at the body of work Stanzi did. Him and two freshmen RB's brought that offense to the Orange Bowl.

You can also say that JVB with 3 NFL Olinemen and a all purpose back brought us 0 trophy game wins and 1 road win.

I don't care about stats. Stanzi had some awesome senior stats but anybody with half a brain would've taken the Junior version gun slinging americstanzi over the I don't wanna make a mistake senior version. But to compare JVB's body of work to any modern QB: Drew Tate, Chandler, Banks, Jake C, Stanzi I'd say JVB finishes ahead of Jake C but behind everyone else mentioned above

There is a lot of sense in this post. JVB being the best QB at Iowa right now may not say a whole lot. Or it might speak volumes.

 

[bitmap]

It seems that Vandenberg has two faults that some people think will doom him to everlasting mediocrity.

#1 He’s jumpy and he panics in the pocket. His pocket presence is poor. Against weaker defenses he did show solid improvement as the season went on. Against good defenses he continued to struggle and made no major headway at the end of the season.

I have always felt it was an environmental noise issue w/ JVB. I imagined that he probably studied at home in a very quiet environment. I thought he had trouble in away situations because of the crowd noise.

I'm now coming around to the idea that good defenses may be the real problem. The schedule was such that we saw all of the good defenses away for the most part. Thinking it through the one loss at home, to Sparty-a solid defense, was similar to the debacle at Happy Valley.

Crowd noise certainly enters into the equation and that can be corrected with coaching and training. GD has a track record of shaping offenses around the strengths of the QB. I'm hoping that whatever changes GD implements will play up JVB's assets and mitigate his issues.

As for the receiving corps, KD and KMM have some proven ability. I see Bullock and Staggs playing roles this year as well. Completing 60% or more of the passes is attainable.

 

[JHHawk]

Vandy had a very solid game on the road in the win over Purdue. Then he went to Nebraska and struggled, and struggled against Oklahoma in Arizona. The team struggled vs MSU,NEB and OK down the stretch, no doubt. But those were some pretty good defenses...better than good actually, 3 of the best defenses in the country.
Vandy was off-target vs Neb,uncharacteristically,but otherwise he is pretty accurate,generally. He has a gun. He runs well. His pocket presence was not great,but that is a learned trait,usually. His field vision needs work.

Who in the Big Ten would you rather have starting at QB for Iowa next year? Passer?

DRob- ok,maybe,altho he would not fit our system at all.
T-Mart- uh...no,he is a horrible passer,period.
Braxton Miller- work in progress, still not accurate thrower yet,but great runner.
Jon Budmayer-Wis....surgery on elbow last year,and was not good before that.
Marques Gray- Minny...not a good thrower,good runner...not a fit at Iowa.
Kane Colter- NW... another good runner, ok passer...not a fit.
Purdue's cast of thousands....not a great passer in the bunch,imo.
PSU's ginger walkon...sub-par arm.
MSU's rookie- who?
IU's 2nd year guy...better runner than thrower.
Scheelhasse- ok, Nate is decent,and might be one that I could see as better than Vandy overall package wise.

Who is the best passer in that group? Vandy. If he matures in the pocket and field vision wise and gets protection,with help from the receivers....he will put up the best numbers...just watch.