HawkeyeMike23
Banned
The end is near for Uconn. That program began it's long downward slide this year.
What are the best basketball programs, job wise?
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
The end is near for Uconn. That program began it's long downward slide this year.
ColumbusHawk
Well-Known Member
When Lute left, Iowa was considered to be as good as or a better basketball program historically than Kansas.
Lute left after the '83 season. In '84 Larry Brown went to Kansas. He was followed by Roy Williams. Those two coaches took Kansas to the "next level." In contrast, Iowa has been in steady decline ever since, hitting rock bottom with Lickliter.
It is hard to believe now, but Iowa used to be considered a better job than Kansas. Unless, you are well over forty, it is hard to fathom.
Lute left after the '83 season. In '84 Larry Brown went to Kansas. He was followed by Roy Williams. Those two coaches took Kansas to the "next level." In contrast, Iowa has been in steady decline ever since, hitting rock bottom with Lickliter.
It is hard to believe now, but Iowa used to be considered a better job than Kansas. Unless, you are well over forty, it is hard to fathom.
sioux34
Well-Known Member
Really? Lexington Ky is worse than Lawrence KS? I don't think so.
goods10
Well-Known Member
Who cares who was right or wrong TrollRegardless you were wrong, and me and Jumper were right!
tailgater371
Well-Known Member
Which he edited at 1:11 after I showed him some bball knowledge!
My bad. I guess I will have to look deeper before I attempt to correct someone next time!
this is a hard set up because who the coach is when they move is important along with where they come from.
1) unc - i go with this because they got roy from kansas so they have to be ahead of kansas.
2) kentucky - calipari was a house hold name and a known winner even though it was at smaller schools.
3) kansas - self is the best coach in bball (imo) but since roy could have stayed but chose unc the best they can do is #2...ku and uk are more like 2a and 2b.
4) indiana - pulling big name coaches even when their stock is down.
5) duke - coach k stays with lots of nba offers yr after yr and there would be a line of big names wanting that job if he left despite the disadvantages.
1) unc - i go with this because they got roy from kansas so they have to be ahead of kansas.
2) kentucky - calipari was a house hold name and a known winner even though it was at smaller schools.
3) kansas - self is the best coach in bball (imo) but since roy could have stayed but chose unc the best they can do is #2...ku and uk are more like 2a and 2b.
4) indiana - pulling big name coaches even when their stock is down.
5) duke - coach k stays with lots of nba offers yr after yr and there would be a line of big names wanting that job if he left despite the disadvantages.
The usual suspects at the top:
UNC,KU,Duke,UCLA and IU...they have won the most titles.
Next tier:
Louisville- most profitable college bb program in the land last year by almost 10 million...Revenues 40 m. Profit- 25 million
MSU
OSU- having a strong football program is now a plus as it finances great facilities for all.
UCONN- could be an issue when Calhoun goes away,but I think this is the job Shaka wants.
Wisconsin - hugely profitable with net income of 12 million last year.
Florida- another bb program that profits from a strong football program.
Cuse
Maryland- strong tradition in ACC country where they do love hoops.
Michigan- coming back
Tennessee- very profitable program,huge fan support.
That is your top 15 programs.
Combination of tradition,fan support,facilities and revenues determine their status.
UNC,KU,Duke,UCLA and IU...they have won the most titles.
Next tier:
Louisville- most profitable college bb program in the land last year by almost 10 million...Revenues 40 m. Profit- 25 million
MSU
OSU- having a strong football program is now a plus as it finances great facilities for all.
UCONN- could be an issue when Calhoun goes away,but I think this is the job Shaka wants.
Wisconsin - hugely profitable with net income of 12 million last year.
Florida- another bb program that profits from a strong football program.
Cuse
Maryland- strong tradition in ACC country where they do love hoops.
Michigan- coming back
Tennessee- very profitable program,huge fan support.
That is your top 15 programs.
Combination of tradition,fan support,facilities and revenues determine their status.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
Oh, most definitely. Lexington blows, Lawrence is all right. End of story.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
Judging by the criteria of whether or not you could pull a big name coach is probably different than what actually defines an elite school.
I believe right now MSU or OSU could pull just about anyone if Izzo or Matta were to leave, they have both been fairly regular participants in the final four over the last 15 years, have proven to be a place top talent will come, they have huge passionate fan bases, excellent facilities and lots of money.
That doesn't make them elite though because if they were to drop off for ten years things would be different.
UNC, Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana are permanent elites because of their place in history. They are like Alabama in football. Not even Todd Licklieter could kill their programs.
UCONN and Duke are probably next in line and they would certainly get just about whoever they want but they are not guaranteed to maintain their status if they were to go down hill for an extended period of time.
I believe right now MSU or OSU could pull just about anyone if Izzo or Matta were to leave, they have both been fairly regular participants in the final four over the last 15 years, have proven to be a place top talent will come, they have huge passionate fan bases, excellent facilities and lots of money.
That doesn't make them elite though because if they were to drop off for ten years things would be different.
UNC, Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana are permanent elites because of their place in history. They are like Alabama in football. Not even Todd Licklieter could kill their programs.
UCONN and Duke are probably next in line and they would certainly get just about whoever they want but they are not guaranteed to maintain their status if they were to go down hill for an extended period of time.
BILLBUCKNER
Well-Known Member
The only truly elite jobs would be Kansas, UNC,UCLA,Kentucky,Indiana..Most of the other schools that are up there were built by their current coaches. Let's see if Duke,UCONN,syracues are still elite when their long long time coaches retire.
BSpringsteen
Well-Known Member
Lexington > Lawrence?
Ha!
Lawrence is pretty cool, and only 45 minutes from downtown KC.
Ha!
Lawrence is pretty cool, and only 45 minutes from downtown KC.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
Lexington is ******* awsome. The weather is nice, the Kentucky derby is the biggest ******* party you've ever seen. Lexington itself is a cool town, and its only an hour away from Louisville which is outstanding also. People have this image of Kentucky being a bunch of tootheless inbred hicks, and depending on where you are you get some of that, but Lexington and Louisville are both awsome awsome towns. Ohh you are also smack dab in the middle of a dozen bourbon distillerys.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Add to that the probation you will serve out, or the turmoil you deal with, after Calipari leaves (see "Every other coach that has followed Calipari" for clarification).
What DOES make Kentucky #1, if anything, is the program's apparent blindness to "one-and-done" coupled with graduation rates/standards PLUS the willingness to throw out player GPAs on the TV airwaves (which Calipari did over the weekend).
sioux34
Well-Known Member
Duff, while I agree the Derby is great, it is in Louisville, not Lexington. Otherwise, I agree with your post, and Lexington is much better than Lawrence.
I grew up in Iowa (went to college in Cedar Rapids), have lived in Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, and now Ohio. I'll always consider myself an Iowan, and I always feel like I'm going home when I go back to visit, but if I could move back to anywhere that I've lived, I'd go back to Lexington in a heartbeat. Beautiful area, great city, friendly people, and less than a three hour drive from Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Indianapolis, and Nashville. IMHO living in Lexington would be great part the UK job, not a negative.
eyekwah
Well-Known Member
Best basketball program job-wise? I would not list UNC, Ky, IU, Duke, Ks. The pressures to win are enormous. The reputation helps in recruiting, but that does not guarantee enough wins to appease the fans. The expectation is not the final four, but being the national champion. I would say it is even more difficult for the coach at UNC, Duke and IU. They have some academic hurdles that Ky or Ks don't.
I would say that Michigan State is an example of a good job. IZZO can recruit good players within 150 miles of E Lansing and while the expectations are high they are not unrealistic. If he wants to recruit a Chicago player he can, but he generally recruits close to home. He has created a safe place for himself. They have excellent facilities and good fan support.
I would put Purdue as another good job. I believe they are the only B1G team to have a winning record against all conference opponents. They have a long history good coaches and basketball success. I would say it is a better job than the Illinois job.
I would say that Michigan State is an example of a good job. IZZO can recruit good players within 150 miles of E Lansing and while the expectations are high they are not unrealistic. If he wants to recruit a Chicago player he can, but he generally recruits close to home. He has created a safe place for himself. They have excellent facilities and good fan support.
I would put Purdue as another good job. I believe they are the only B1G team to have a winning record against all conference opponents. They have a long history good coaches and basketball success. I would say it is a better job than the Illinois job.
Indiana is the top choice when you take everything into consideration. Looking at the top tier teams, who would have the easiest rise if the school was recovering from a bad hire?
North Carolina/Duke- the biggest thing for me is being able to dip into a deep in-state talent pool when a program has been down. NC has decent HS talent, but not enough to keep them afloat if they fail for a few years. Throw in the fact that the ACC seems to play by the rules as far as admissions standards are concerned, if you make a bad hire, it would hurt these teams. We haven't seen it from Duke, but Carolina experienced it with the Matt Doherty experiment. Luckily an in the family hire saved them.
UCLA- lots of talent to choose from, and tons of tradition. The only problem is that kids in Cali don't seem to grow up wanting to be Bruins.
Kentucky- loads of tradition and the ability to "bend the rules" in the SEC will keep this school relevant even without the in-state talent pool.
Kansas- this school really dismisses everything I've just said, but I still think they would struggle after a bad hire if they let it go for too long. No area talent to draw from and they're in the middle of nowhere.
Very unlikely these schools will ever flounder for very long, but it can happen.
Fail proof teams:
Indiana- great in-state talent, huge fan support. Has a Chicago pipeline with Crean as coach, and seems to be keeping the top guys in state now. Throw in minor competition from a down Purdue and a rarely relevant Notre Dame. Sanctions is what kept them down.
Ohio State- yes, they are second fiddle to football, but Ohio is turning out players right now and they are the only game in town.
MSU/Michigan- I put them both up because the state has a lot of talent to always draw from. They do tend to cancel each other out though, as it seems as one is great, the other is not.
Maryland/Georgetown- D.C. area has a ton of HS talent, the only problem is Maryland is down. Either way, it seems that one of the D.C. school is top notch.
Texas- loads of HS talent, huge fan base with the not so high expectations as with football.
Syracuse- NY talent with the fact that St Johns has decided not to challenge anymore. They should be alright after Boheim as long as the school doesn't get sanctioned.
The WTH schools:
Depaul/Illinois- they have arguably the best talent pool to chose from. They are respectable academic schools, but come on.
USC/UCLA- why do they always go thru stretches of irrelevance?
North Carolina/Duke- the biggest thing for me is being able to dip into a deep in-state talent pool when a program has been down. NC has decent HS talent, but not enough to keep them afloat if they fail for a few years. Throw in the fact that the ACC seems to play by the rules as far as admissions standards are concerned, if you make a bad hire, it would hurt these teams. We haven't seen it from Duke, but Carolina experienced it with the Matt Doherty experiment. Luckily an in the family hire saved them.
UCLA- lots of talent to choose from, and tons of tradition. The only problem is that kids in Cali don't seem to grow up wanting to be Bruins.
Kentucky- loads of tradition and the ability to "bend the rules" in the SEC will keep this school relevant even without the in-state talent pool.
Kansas- this school really dismisses everything I've just said, but I still think they would struggle after a bad hire if they let it go for too long. No area talent to draw from and they're in the middle of nowhere.
Very unlikely these schools will ever flounder for very long, but it can happen.
Fail proof teams:
Indiana- great in-state talent, huge fan support. Has a Chicago pipeline with Crean as coach, and seems to be keeping the top guys in state now. Throw in minor competition from a down Purdue and a rarely relevant Notre Dame. Sanctions is what kept them down.
Ohio State- yes, they are second fiddle to football, but Ohio is turning out players right now and they are the only game in town.
MSU/Michigan- I put them both up because the state has a lot of talent to always draw from. They do tend to cancel each other out though, as it seems as one is great, the other is not.
Maryland/Georgetown- D.C. area has a ton of HS talent, the only problem is Maryland is down. Either way, it seems that one of the D.C. school is top notch.
Texas- loads of HS talent, huge fan base with the not so high expectations as with football.
Syracuse- NY talent with the fact that St Johns has decided not to challenge anymore. They should be alright after Boheim as long as the school doesn't get sanctioned.
The WTH schools:
Depaul/Illinois- they have arguably the best talent pool to chose from. They are respectable academic schools, but come on.
USC/UCLA- why do they always go thru stretches of irrelevance?
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
I live 2 1/2 hours away from Lexington and have been there often. Lexington is not awesome. Lexington sucks. You're right about the state of Kentucky, though. Underrated place.
P.S. The Derby takes place in Louisville, not Lexington.
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If I could take any job in the country it'd be Texas. Unbelievable facilities, great location to recruit to, tons of talent instate, and almost zero pressure to win at a high level. It's unreal.
I've been following this Illinois thing pretty closely. Apparently there is a big turnoff in recruiting Chicago. The fans expect any coach to recruit Chicago, but getting talent out of that snakepit is brutal.