Weak Big 12

And from a guy who's conference hasn't had a winning bowl record in more than 5 years....I don't think I'd be talking

This from a guy who doesn't really know his facts.
Fact No 1. Bowls are only one indicator of conference strength.
Fact No 2. Sagarin Rankings of the Big 10 and Big 12 are pretty even. Big 12 ranked one ahead in one indicator, Big 10 one ahead in another.
Fact. No. 3. Since the BcS was created, the B10 has qualifed 19 times. The Big 12 16.
Fact No. 4. Since you talk bowl records, lets talk about the ones that actually count for something - the BCS. B12 is 7-9, for a winning percentage of .438. B10 is 8-11 for a winning percentage of .421. Of the BCS conferences, that ranks the B12 fourth and the B10 fifth.
Fact No. 5. The B12 is 2-4 in the title game. The B10 is 1-2.
Fact No. 6 This year the B12 is 35-24 against non-conference competition for a whopping .593 winning percentage. The Big 10 is 32-12, for a .727 winning percentage.
Fact No 7. In head to head competition, the Big 10 is 315-217-5 against the B12 all time.
Fact No. 8 In head to head competition, the Big 12 is 24-19 against the B10 since 2000. A winning percentage of .558. For the record, Oklahoma has not played a B10 team in that span. Only Missouri (6-2) and Texas (4-1) have a winning record (with multiple games played) against the B10.

All in all, the conferences appear fairly even. Neither can lay claim to dominating the other.

Now, can we put the ******* match to rest?
 
This from a guy who doesn't really know his facts.
Fact No 1. Bowls are only one indicator of conference strength. Agreed. That's why I did overall the past 5 years in my above post
Fact No 2. Sagarin Rankings of the Big 10 and Big 12 are pretty even. Big 12 ranked one ahead in one indicator, Big 10 one ahead in another.
Fact. No. 3. Since the BcS was created, the B10 has qualifed 19 times. The Big 12 16. Ok. I agree the Big 10 use to be a great conference. Last 5 years? Not very good. That's my argument
Fact No. 4. Since you talk bowl records, lets talk about the ones that actually count for something - the BCS. B12 is 7-9, for a winning percentage of .438. B10 is 8-11 for a winning percentage of .421. Of the BCS conferences, that ranks the B12 fourth and the B10 fifth.
Fact No. 5. The B12 is 2-4 in the title game. The B10 is 1-2.
Fact No. 6 This year the B12 is 35-24 against non-conference competition for a whopping .593 winning percentage. The Big 10 is 32-12, for a .727 winning percentage. How about showing a stat that matters. How about winning percentage against BCS schools?! Big 12 4-7...Big 10 5-9 (Iowa really did a good job going 0-2...everyone else stunk)...Both conferences, not very good
Fact No 7. In head to head competition, the Big 10 is 315-217-5 against the B12 all time. Won't argue. Big 10 is a tradition conference. Last 5 years they have struggled
Fact No. 8 In head to head competition, the Big 12 is 24-19 against the B10 since 2000. A winning percentage of .558. For the record, Oklahoma has not played a B10 team in that span. Only Missouri (6-2) and Texas (4-1) have a winning record (with multiple games played) against the B10.

All in all, the conferences appear fairly even. Neither can lay claim to dominating the other.

Now, can we put the ******* match to rest?
 
Check the schedule differences between PSU and Nebraska. Nebraska actually played a tough team in the non conference schedule. They played @ VT. Penn St's toughest game? Syracuse?

And before you go ripping on the Big 12 north understand that I agree it was down this year and not very good. But you also need to look at how the Big 12 north has done against the entire Big 10 the last 5 years. Who has the winning record?!?!

Big 12 North! 8-3 against the Big 10. The entire Big 10 has won 2 BCS bowl games in that time. Big 12 north has won 1 with 5 fewer teams!

So what does the last 5 years have to do with the Big 12 being down this year? No one is arguing that, it is about THIS YEAR.
 
Bottom line Cyclones17, I've lived in the heart of B12 country for a decade, and started off and on living here 20 years ago. I'm am really, really fed up with the Big 8 and-now-Big 12 superiority rhetoric.

The truth is the B10 and B12 are on even ground. You have Texas. We have OSU. You have Oklahoma. We have Penn State. You have Nebby, we have (until recently) Michigan. I really believe the Big 8 lost out by only taking four teams from the SWC. Having a 16-team super conference would have rocked. But, they didn't do that. Now it's Texas, Okie and Nebby gunning for a title with eight also-rans and Baylor in the basement.

Enough of the baloney. Both conferences need to stand up and say F-U to the coasts, this is Midwest Football. Come out here and play us, and quit looking down on us until you do.
 
So what does the last 5 years have to do with the Big 12 being down this year? No one is arguing that, it is about THIS YEAR.

Nothing. I stated the Big 12 is down this year. Younger teams and key injuries to OU and OSU really hurt the Big 12 this year.
 
Nothing. I stated the Big 12 is down this year. Younger teams and key injuries to OU and OSU really hurt the Big 12 this year.

2005 Big 10 was better, 2006 Big 10 was better, 2007, 2008 Big 12 was better, 2009 Big 10 is better.

3 of the last 5 years the Big 10 was stronger. I'm sure you will say 2005 the Big 12 was stronger...either way it isn't like the Big12 has been hands down better the last 5 years by any stretch.

Last and most important point, who the F cares? I mean conference strength changes from year to year really. I don't see either as being dominate over the other the last 5 years. The only thing that is for certain is that the Big 12's strength over the last 5 years come MAINLY (not exclusively) from the South.
 
TT will beat MSU (well, until I heard their coach was suspended), Stanford will beat Oklahoma (easily), Arizona will edge past Nebraska, Alabama will roll Texas, Iowa State will beat Minnesota (well...you never know, it's ISU)

I agree with these picks, and would also add I think Navy will beat Mizzou and OSU will beat Ole Miss. That would leave the Big 12 at 3-5, which is what I predicted. I have also predicted that the Big 10 will go 3-4, with Iowa, Wisconsin, and NW winning.
 
Uhh... what? Teams often jump others in the Big 10 based on a number of reasons. Iowa has benefitted from it multiple times. I don't get that statement at all.

It's not a concrete system, but they DO have bowl tie ins dependent upon conference outcome....Yes a 7-5 team can jump an 8-4 team, but you can pretty much count on the 1st place B10 team playing in the Rose, 2nd BCS or Cap One, 3rd Outback, 4th Champs....etc.

This is NOT the case in the big 12. It's all about what bowl wants what team....that's it. I know it's because of money, but it is a joke because of that.
 
It's not a concrete system, but they DO have bowl tie ins dependent upon conference outcome....Yes a 7-5 team can jump an 8-4 team, but you can pretty much count on the 1st place B10 team playing in the Rose, 2nd BCS or Cap One, 3rd Outback, 4th Champs....etc.

This is NOT the case in the big 12. It's all about what bowl wants what team....that's it. I know it's because of money, but it is a joke because of that.

The entire bowl system is a joke. It's all because of money.
 
And, Wisconsin goes out and proves the little sister Cyclone17 their worth. Is that a big enough win for you? This was a Miami team that BEAT Oklahoma.
 
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I agree the Wisconsin win was good tonight. However, Miami was the team who was blown out by VT. It was 31-7 VT and I don't think it was that close.
 
Quick who was the best team that Penn St beat all year?! They only beat one team (northwestern) that had over a .500 record. Wisconsin?!

Those two teams are garbage!
And they would still win the Big 12 north. FACE IT the big 12 north is the worse division in college football this year.. And just about every other year.
 
Fact check - Penn State defeated the following teams with a .500 or better record:

Temple - finished regular season 9-4, lost to UCLA in bowl action yesterday.
Northwestern - 8-4

Other bowl teams:
Minnesota, 6-6 entering bowl action
Mich. State, 6-6 entering bowl action.

FCS:
Eastern Illinois, 8-4.

Cyclones17, would you please do your friggin homework before stirring the pot on this board? This is at least the second time you have forgotten about Temple on their slate. Not a strong team traditionally, however, did miss their conference championship game by one game - a loss to Ohio.

Does this make the PSU schedule any better than advertised? NO.

But get your facts straight!
 
Why is everyone so worried about the Big XII north? They aren't as good as Texas and Oklahoma, who are usually tops in the conference every year. So what. The Big Ten doesn't need to have divisions and for the past 50 years who has been on top more often than not... Michigan and Ohio State. Since the 80s throw in Iowa and Penn State since the 90s. No team in the Big XII north was ever a football power except for Nebraska. Well, neither have the traditional 6-11 teams of the Big Ten, and if the Big Ten expands to 12 teams we could very see the same thing here, where football powers are in one division, and the have nots are in the other.

You are justifying arguments by using the Big XII north as an example. They suck and they don't win the conference. Last time I checked Texas is undefeated and playing for a national title. 7 of the past 10 seasons a team from the Big XII has been there. History isn't going to care what division they played in.
 
Fact check - Penn State defeated the following teams with a .500 or better record:

Temple - finished regular season 9-4, lost to UCLA in bowl action yesterday.
Northwestern - 8-4

Other bowl teams:
Minnesota, 6-6 entering bowl action
Mich. State, 6-6 entering bowl action.

FCS:
Eastern Illinois, 8-4.

Cyclones17, would you please do your friggin homework before stirring the pot on this board? This is at least the second time you have forgotten about Temple on their slate. Not a strong team traditionally, however, did miss their conference championship game by one game - a loss to Ohio.

Does this make the PSU schedule any better than advertised? NO.

But get your facts straight!

I forgot Temple! Other than that my facts were straight. I said OVER .500 record. Go back and look at my post. Eastern Illinois doesn't count as they are a FCS school and would have gone winless in D1A

It was a nice win by Wisconsin last night. Not surprised they won but surprised with the manner in which they dominated. This could be the year that the Big 10 has a winning record during the bowl season....but I doubt it
 
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