We have a lot of hypocrites on this board.

Thawki

Thawki

Well-Known Member
This might not be a really popular thing to say, but I am just going to say it because it has been bugging me for a while.

If Hayden Fry had been around as long and had taken our program to the same heights Paterno has taken PSU, our fan base would probably be just like what we perceive Penn State's and Nebraska's to be. And make no mistake, if a school hires the wrong leadership to surround their athletic department, what happened there could have happened at a lot of places. Maybe even Iowa.

But no one here wants to admit that. Those are probably the same fans that would whine about having Mary Sue Coleman as the leader of our school and they might complain now about our current president. The perception being they aren't sports-minded enough or that they are pushing too strongly for a place for women's athletics at Iowa, given they can't support themselves financially.

The truth is, though, that this type of diverse leadership is a check against the sort of problems that came up at PSU. You can't have it both ways. There probably isn't a way to make it the exact perfect mix to make everyone happy while still keeping the culture and priorities in line.

But from my perspective, there are a lot of hypocritical, holier-than-thou types around right now that find it easy to take shots at PSU's fan base when they don't really recognize that they are probably the same fans, just at a different school, minus the success and scandal that are both now associated with Penn State.

I get the feeling sometimes that a lot of you think Iowa is better than other schools and places. Maybe the truth is we're just a little luckier. We have had legal problems surrounding our sports teams. They don't need to be revisited now, but they weren't always handled perfectly. But we had leadership in place that eventually tried to do the right things before things got too far out of hand.

If we had somehow hired PSU's leadership, that might not have been the case. Maybe we should count ourselves lucky in this regard.

I will probably post this and then let everyone comment as they will on it. I am not really interested in debating my points so much as I really just wanted to get them off my chest. I'll get off my soap box now.
 
hypotheticals are fun aren't they? The problem here isn't the fans, it's the fact that the NCAA thinks somehow punishing the players and fans by putting these sanctions in place destroys the "football is king" culture that is college football. But guess what football is still king at most SEC, B1G, and Big 12 schools, and it still is at PSU as well! Look how they're circling the wagons! So if these sanctions aren't going to help solve the problem why do them? Maybe the NCAA just wanted to show how strong they are. To adress the problem in the situation(not solve it) putting the team on probation and then fining them and focusing most of PSU football profits to aid in the education of child abuse in the U.S. would have actually done something to adress the issue. The sanctions on the football program were not necessary, I'm sorry. And for those who will attack me and say that the NCAA has a moral obligatioin to sanction PSU, ask youself, who are these sanctions hurting those responsible for the covering up of vicious crimes or those who would have recieved a good education because of football? Does this hurt sandusky? Nope he's in prison and can't show his face in public again. Curley or Spanier? Nope they have also been dealt with by the legal system. Joe Pa? Nope he's dead.


Think people, who are these sanctions hurting? Regular college students at a Big Ten university.
 
franstheman said:
hypotheticals are fun aren't they? The problem here isn't the fans, it's the fact that the NCAA thinks somehow punishing the players and fans by putting these sanctions in place destroys the "football is king" culture that is college football. But guess what football is still king at most SEC, B1G, and Big 12 schools, and it still is at PSU as well! Look how they're circling the wagons! So if these sanctions aren't going to help solve the problem why do them? Maybe the NCAA just wanted to show how strong they are. To adress the problem in the situation(not solve it) putting the team on probation and then fining them and focusing most of PSU football profits to aid in the education of child abuse in the U.S. would have actually done something to adress the issue. The sanctions on the football program were not necessary, I'm sorry. And for those who will attack me and say that the NCAA has a moral obligatioin to sanction PSU, ask youself, who are these sanctions hurting those responsible for the covering up of vicious crimes or those who would have recieved a good education because of football? Does this hurt sandusky? Nope he's in prison and can't show his face in public again. Curley or Spanier? Nope they have also been dealt with by the legal system. Joe Pa? Nope he's dead.


Think people, who are these sanctions hurting? Regular college students at a Big Ten university.
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There's a difference between trying to totally debunk the fact that football shoulders a big load financially, and trying to deter programs from placing football ahead of victimized children in the future. Most schools are not on THAT level, but Penn State was.

That's not to say that many schools wouldn't be, if they were in Penn State's shoes in 1998. But most schools don't place THAT much importance on football.
 
tm3308 said:
There's a difference between trying to totally debunk the fact that football shoulders a big load financially, and trying to deter programs from placing football ahead of victimized children in the future. Most schools are not on THAT level, but Penn State was.

That's not to say that many schools wouldn't be, if they were in Penn State's shoes in 1998. But most schools don't place THAT much importance on football.
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So tell me how this fixes that? Seems like those involved have already gotten their due punishments from something much bigger than the NCAA. The United States Penal system.
 
franstheman said:
hypotheticals are fun aren't they? The problem here isn't the fans, it's the fact that the NCAA thinks somehow punishing the players and fans by putting these sanctions in place destroys the "football is king" culture that is college football. But guess what football is still king at most SEC, B1G, and Big 12 schools, and it still is at PSU as well! Look how they're circling the wagons! So if these sanctions aren't going to help solve the problem why do them? Maybe the NCAA just wanted to show how strong they are. To adress the problem in the situation(not solve it) putting the team on probation and then fining them and focusing most of PSU football profits to aid in the education of child abuse in the U.S. would have actually done something to adress the issue. The sanctions on the football program were not necessary, I'm sorry. And for those who will attack me and say that the NCAA has a moral obligatioin to sanction PSU, ask youself, who are these sanctions hurting those responsible for the covering up of vicious crimes or those who would have recieved a good education because of football? Does this hurt sandusky? Nope he's in prison and can't show his face in public again. Curley or Spanier? Nope they have also been dealt with by the legal system. Joe Pa? Nope he's dead.


Think people, who are these sanctions hurting? Regular college students at a Big Ten university.
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Really? No where in life is there any thing that is fair. The Athletic Department and the football program at PSU allowed little boys to be raped.. repeatedly! Now the guys on PSU can leave that hell hole, no questions asked, and go play somewhere else. Why would you not want to get away?
Ask yourself... who is hurt more... the poor kids in the shower, or the "men" on the team that can pick up and go wherever they want to now?
 
franstheman said:
So tell me how this fixes that? Seems like those involved have already gotten their due punishments from something much bigger than the NCAA. The United States Penal system.
Click to expand...

And the football program has four years with nothing to play for coming up. They're circling the wagons now, but I'd wait and see where they are in a couple years before totally dismissing this punishment. I'm not saying it's on the same level as the death penalty, but it's no slap on the wrist, either.

Penn State, the university, wanted to take back control from football. Whether all this will accomplish that remains to be seen; but again, this penalty isn't something to sneeze at, and could certainly help serve as a deterrent for other schools.

And, as already mentioned by twinlaker, these players can go wherever they want without penalty. If they don't want to be unfairly punished, they can go to another school. If they choose to stay, they know what they're getting into.
 
franstheman said:
hypotheticals are fun aren't they? The problem here isn't the fans, it's the fact that the NCAA thinks somehow punishing the players and fans by putting these sanctions in place destroys the "football is king" culture that is college football. But guess what football is still king at most SEC, B1G, and Big 12 schools, and it still is at PSU as well! Look how they're circling the wagons! So if these sanctions aren't going to help solve the problem why do them? Maybe the NCAA just wanted to show how strong they are. To adress the problem in the situation(not solve it) putting the team on probation and then fining them and focusing most of PSU football profits to aid in the education of child abuse in the U.S. would have actually done something to adress the issue. The sanctions on the football program were not necessary, I'm sorry. And for those who will attack me and say that the NCAA has a moral obligatioin to sanction PSU, ask youself, who are these sanctions hurting those responsible for the covering up of vicious crimes or those who would have recieved a good education because of football? Does this hurt sandusky? Nope he's in prison and can't show his face in public again. Curley or Spanier? Nope they have also been dealt with by the legal system. Joe Pa? Nope he's dead.


Think people, who are these sanctions hurting? Regular college students at a Big Ten university.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of instances where innocent people get hurt by the actions of a few. But PSU football is a business, and it's leaders we're corrupt. The money it made was dirty. Punishment is necessary.
 
the only sanction that i have a problem with is the scholarships. when 85 schollies are given to a team it is likely that maybe 20 of those are going to players that will use football as a career. but those arent the 20 guys that will lose a scholly by reducing the number. the guys that use football to get a free education are the guys that will end up not getting one. the other 3 sanctions would have effectively hurt the school, the scholarships really hurt the student-athletes in this case and those kids did nothing wrong.

1) money - helps to hopefully prevent things in the future
2) wins vacated - wipes paterno from the records
3) bowl ban - shows football shouldnt be king
4) scholly loss - keeps 20 kids a yr from a free education and better our country.

which of those four doesnt seem right here?
 
If we had an asst coach raping kids in the shower, I gotta believe KF would not turn a blind eye. I pray we never have to find out.
 
I agree that Emmert and the NCAA was absolutely full of crap when they talked of changing the ''football is king culture'' in college football.
On one hand they endorse a huge leap in the ''football is king'' mentality by allowing the playoff,and then they act like naive virgins about the culture where money rules? Get the hell outta here.
Emmert was chancellor at LSU...king of the football is king culture,and he fired Dinardo because he was losing games. He hired Saban, the crown prince of football is king mentality....what a joke Emmert is.
If he was serious he would immediately start reining in football by eliminating he playoff. Not serious....just grandstanding.

Now, sources on the Freeh commission are saying that the NCAA completely mis-construed and mis-used their report to draw their conclusions and penalize PSU.
Emmerts knee jerk action was a big mistake,and will be proven so...just watch.
 
"Now, sources on the Freeh commission are saying that the NCAA completely mis-construed and mis-used their report to draw their conclusions and penalize PSU."

Probably just more PSU delusions and this one got printed. According to the Freeh Report no one spoke to the writers of that article.
"The Freeh Group emphatically stated that no member of its investigative
team spoke to The Chronicle of Higher Education for its story," the
spokesperson said. "The Freeh Group has no comment on the NCAA's use of
the report."

Though the article's title says Freeh member, in the text of it they just quote someone close to the Freeh investigation, who could even have been a PSU official.
 
theboat said:
Foval21 said:
4) scholly loss - keeps 20 kids a yr from a free education at PSU only
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Sorry, but those kids will get a free education somewhere else, which is the intent of the punishment, and perfectly fine with me.
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no actually they wont because the guys that lose their schollies arent the stars they are the guys that practice for 3 yrs and never play and maybe get some time as a senior on specialties and a few snaps in blowouts. it isnt like the missing scholarships at psu go to another school so there are the same amount of schollies in cfb. if psu loses schollies so does all of college football.
 
Foval21 said:
no actually they wont because the guys that lose their schollies arent the stars they are the guys that practice for 3 yrs and never play and maybe get some time as a senior on specialties and a few snaps in blowouts. it isnt like the missing scholarships at psu go to another school so there are the same amount of schollies in cfb. if psu loses schollies so does all of college football.
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Somehow I think the world will survive. :rolleyes:

PSU is the top of the food chain. Those scholarships will trickle down to lesser teams and then lesser divisions. I guess you are right, this may eventually cause some kid to have to walk on to Iowa Wesleyan that otherwise might have gotten a scholarship.
 
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