Motigerhawk
Well-Known Member
I hope you guys are right and the best is still ahead. I am really curious how we come out the other end after the Murrays are gone.
We had a budding NBA star on the roster last year and couldn’t win a tourney game
- Thread starter hawkinn3
- Start date
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
You don't think Murray's is as good asBates Diopp?
Fryowa
Administrator
Murray’s much better.
JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
I’ll believe in the Fran Experiment when he makes it out of the first week of the dance. It’s awesome that the team didn’t explode down the stretch for once, but they still put up a truly Iowa effort against Richmond. You can’t convince me that in six attempts of 12 seasons variance alone explains Iowa’s inability to not collapse in the tournament, just like Campbell getting clowned by Ferentz all five times they’ve met and counting isn’t simply luck.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
They remind me a lot of each other. Similar Stats. Similar college development. BD can take it harder to the hope but disappears a bit more than Murray.
dahlhawk
Well-Known Member
Bottom line, everyone shot poorly in that game. Fran loves to recruit shooters, some games are won on good defense and lost by a bad shooting night. Both happened to Iowa in that game.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
I remember reading Fran is 1 of only 4 coaches historically (or something like that) with as many years and as many NCAA appearances to never appear in the Sweet 16 and beyond.
The NCAA tournament features the best of the best teams that year. It is the only way you can with the National Championship that year. So, you have to be playing your best ball in March. You do need to play very well in the prior months to position yourself better for a run, but the NCAAs in March is the ultimate lie detector.
I agree with ingoodco that you want to keep getting there to give yourself a chance, but there is also a saying in sports that sometimes you are what your record says you are.
My concern is that Fran has not been able to put it all together when it truly counts. No where ever he has coached. He has had Garza and KM.....a 2 seed.....and they were bounced like they were a 10 seed playing a 2 seed. They had bad luck with the Covid/Oregon situation....but Fran just can't seem to get over the wall.
Fran deserves to be at Iowa and all things considered (the disasters of Bowlsby/Alford/Lick) getting to the NCAAs is an acceptable threshold for this program. So he is in no danger nor should he be.
Recruiting seems to be doing well, but I'm still not convinced that Fran can put a team out on the court that can consistently do it throughout the year......which makes me skeptical he can win the Big Ten Regular Season or have a deep run in March in the real tournament.
And I think it goes back to uneven recruiting (at the guards spots in particular and sometimes the post), individual and team defensive issues, and a lack of team mental fortitude when things aren't going their way.
If you are a Sweet 16 or better person, I'm not sure Fran is your guy. If you want to be a part of the selection show conversation on a frequent basis, he is.
The NCAA tournament features the best of the best teams that year. It is the only way you can with the National Championship that year. So, you have to be playing your best ball in March. You do need to play very well in the prior months to position yourself better for a run, but the NCAAs in March is the ultimate lie detector.
I agree with ingoodco that you want to keep getting there to give yourself a chance, but there is also a saying in sports that sometimes you are what your record says you are.
My concern is that Fran has not been able to put it all together when it truly counts. No where ever he has coached. He has had Garza and KM.....a 2 seed.....and they were bounced like they were a 10 seed playing a 2 seed. They had bad luck with the Covid/Oregon situation....but Fran just can't seem to get over the wall.
Fran deserves to be at Iowa and all things considered (the disasters of Bowlsby/Alford/Lick) getting to the NCAAs is an acceptable threshold for this program. So he is in no danger nor should he be.
Recruiting seems to be doing well, but I'm still not convinced that Fran can put a team out on the court that can consistently do it throughout the year......which makes me skeptical he can win the Big Ten Regular Season or have a deep run in March in the real tournament.
And I think it goes back to uneven recruiting (at the guards spots in particular and sometimes the post), individual and team defensive issues, and a lack of team mental fortitude when things aren't going their way.
If you are a Sweet 16 or better person, I'm not sure Fran is your guy. If you want to be a part of the selection show conversation on a frequent basis, he is.
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My issue is when someone says "coach can't get over the wall". The wall is right past the highest point that coach has made it. If and when he makes a sweet 16, the wall will just move to the elite 8.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, but a Sweet 16 starts to get Fran in the discussion of Iowa coaches making a deeper run in the tourney.....not just getting there but doing something with it. If anything it keeps the progression going.
BigD
Well-Known Member
As it should. Goals should be reset to achieve higher expectations.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
If Fran makes the sweet 16 over the next few seasons and continues to dance he'll quickly move from where he is to possibly the best coach of all time at Iowa. That's the thing with these walls and imaginary ceilings fans use to label people, they get blown off pretty regularly.
But that's how small the line is - without that 2nd weekend he's a bum that will never get there, he gets it and he's likely on one of the best 5 to 10 year runs in school history. Frankly I think he'll get there and I am ok if others think he won't....but based off performance, the program continues to show growth and get better and better so I am fine with being patient. It's not like we aren't having success, just need a wee bit more and suddenly things change drastically.
But that's how small the line is - without that 2nd weekend he's a bum that will never get there, he gets it and he's likely on one of the best 5 to 10 year runs in school history. Frankly I think he'll get there and I am ok if others think he won't....but based off performance, the program continues to show growth and get better and better so I am fine with being patient. It's not like we aren't having success, just need a wee bit more and suddenly things change drastically.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
I wonder how Iowa turns out after Fran lucked out and kept Marble Jr. here.
I wonder how Iowa turns out after Fran lucked out and found Aaron White
I wonder how Iowa turns out after Uthoff saved his job by transferring back to his home state
I wonder how Iowa turns out after Tyler Cook - man Tyler saved his ass
I wonder how Iowa turns out after losing Wieskamp - a kid who only was coming to Iowa no matter what. Man he saved Fran
I wonder how Iowa will do after Luka Garza. Man, did Luka save Fran's job? Probably a big drop off after that BEST player in school history is gone. Man Luka saved Fran's bacon. Pretty much give all credit to his dad
I wonder how Iowa will do after Keegan Murray, obviously losing a top 5 pick.... he got REALLY lucky landing a Murray. Those kids obviously were coming to Iowa no matter what, just fell in his lap.
I wonder how Iowa will do after Kris Murray, obviously, landing a legacy player that was coming to Iowa no matter what really saved Fran's ass.
I wonder how Iowa turns out after Fran lucked out and found Aaron White
I wonder how Iowa turns out after Uthoff saved his job by transferring back to his home state
I wonder how Iowa turns out after Tyler Cook - man Tyler saved his ass
I wonder how Iowa turns out after losing Wieskamp - a kid who only was coming to Iowa no matter what. Man he saved Fran
I wonder how Iowa will do after Luka Garza. Man, did Luka save Fran's job? Probably a big drop off after that BEST player in school history is gone. Man Luka saved Fran's bacon. Pretty much give all credit to his dad
I wonder how Iowa will do after Keegan Murray, obviously losing a top 5 pick.... he got REALLY lucky landing a Murray. Those kids obviously were coming to Iowa no matter what, just fell in his lap.
I wonder how Iowa will do after Kris Murray, obviously, landing a legacy player that was coming to Iowa no matter what really saved Fran's ass.
Depends on your motives for setting the goals. If you always set the bar just out of reach just so you can rag on the coach, it gets a little annoying.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
It's similar to the people who say Kirk settles for that patented 7-5 season.
It's a tired narrative. That's a .583 winning percentage. The last time Kirk finished a season with less than a .583 winning percentage was 2014. His .618 career winning percentage (at Iowa) is better than Barry Alvarez (.609, though Barry started with a barer cupboard, has three Rose Bowl victories, and a better bowl record)
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
That's a lot of wondering and luck. After a while does blind luck become reality if repeated enough?
Some people just seem to have the knack for luck.
BigD
Well-Known Member
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
When analyzing Barry you also have to look at the post coaching years where he was sort of the Football program hands on CEO. Do you honestly think Brett was that good and the Badgers didn't really skip a beat after Barry's retirement? Barry was incredible. About the narrative though, at face value you are right. Then I saw on another thread the 02 win over Purdue. KF had a script and rarely went back to it and when he did it was begrudgingly. Not taking the success for granted, but what is tired is the stubbornness. My opinion. Compare Banks video to Petras or other qbs. Stanzi, Tate.... had nimble feet. CJ could move. Yet he keeps going back to Earl Morral after Roger Staubach wins the NFC East..
BigD
Well-Known Member
Huh???? I don’t set goals for the team. That’s for AD’s and coaches to do.
On another point some fans set the bar so low that the coaches and AD’s never fail to meet their expectations.
Case in point; what University is going to pay a coach a top ten salary collectively over their 23 year reign and yet that coach hasn’t won a conference title over the last eighteen years??
There are 131 college football programs in the FBS. It would be simply outrageous and unrealistic to expect a top ten paid coach out of 131 college programs to win a conference title at least once in the last eighteen years. To expect such is just unreasonable.
NorthKCHawk
Well-Known Member
Regarding this well-worn topic: Yawn.
I would find a meme of a donkey being flogged, but its not even worth that.
I would find a meme of a donkey being flogged, but its not even worth that.
Fryowa
Administrator
Let's be honest here. 95% of your posts are bagging on Kirk Ferentz for not winning a conference title.
po-TAY-to/po-TAH-to
