We had a budding NBA star on the roster last year and couldn’t win a tourney game

Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
So happy for Murray but this reopens the wound.
Heck, we had three the year before and couldn't get past the second round.....

I knew these posts were coming. Even though it happens to at least one blueblood every year. The reason it reopens the would is that unlike said bluebloods we haven't gotten out of the first weekend in over three decades.

There's only one way to fix it and we all know what it is. BTW don't get too excited about Keegan based on summer league play. Bobby Hansen used to knock down 25-30 a night in those games as well. Keegan still has a long road ahead of him.
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
Might have been another NBA guy with Kris but seriously lol with this type of take. Kentucky, MSU, Virginia, and Kansas have all lost a lot more first round games with a lot more NBA guys than Iowa. Anything can happen in a one off. You can't tell me that Fran isn't a good tourney coach cause that's been disproven when he won the B1G tournament and also he made a run with his team in the NIT back in the day. You can't say that he fades every year because he's bucked that trend as well. All you can say is he hasn't been past the first weekend. That's not up for debate, but personally. I feel like that's not systemic, I feel like that it's not a trait of the coach. I feel like that's and Iowa thing at this point with it being since 1999. I can't put all that on Fran.

I personally think Fran's best Iowa years are in front of him and IMO, this gradual climb is to be expected at a developmental program like Iowa. As a fan of the Iowa program for 40 years, all I've ever asked is that you get there (the dance). Keep getting there, keep giving yourself chances to advance and you will.

I personally love the style of play. I love the players he gets. I love the program and how they carry themselves. Fran is 10th highest paid coach in the B1G. Iowa is getting Fran for a song and he performs considerably above his pay. Keep getting to the dance and they are going to advance.
 

Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
Might have been another NBA guy with Kris but seriously lol with this type of take. Kentucky, MSU, Virginia, and Kansas have all lost a lot more first round games with a lot more NBA guys than Iowa. Anything can happen in a one off. You can't tell me that Fran isn't a good tourney coach cause that's been disproven when he won the B1G tournament and also he made a run with his team in the NIT back in the day. You can't say that he fades every year because he's bucked that trend as well. All you can say is he hasn't been past the first weekend. That's not up for debate, but personally. I feel like that's not systemic, I feel like that it's not a trait of the coach. I feel like that's and Iowa thing at this point with it being since 1999. I can't put all that on Fran.

I personally think Fran's best Iowa years are in front of him and IMO, this gradual climb is to be expected at a developmental program like Iowa. As a fan of the Iowa program for 40 years, all I've ever asked is that you get there (the dance). Keep getting there, keep giving yourself chances to advance and you will.

I personally love the style of play. I love the players he gets. I love the program and how they carry themselves. Fran is 10th highest paid coach in the B1G. Iowa is getting Fran for a song and he performs considerably above his pay. Keep getting to the dance and they are going to advance.
Fran has exorcized a lot of demons since the 2018 disaster with strong February play and strong BTT play. We all know what he needs to do to exorcize another one. It just has to happen.
 

BigD

Well-Known Member
It helps to get a feel for teams and their style of play. So familiarity helps considerably. In the tourney you don’t have that advantage so a lot of that is just plain talent, quickness and skill. In Iowa’s case a lack of it at the guard position is the culprit.

Football???? “2004”. That’s a long time, eighteen years.
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
Fran - 10th highest paid coach in B1G, he's never been near the top. IMO, quit frankly, Iowa is lucky to have Fran. Iowa has not invested as much into their program as at least 9 other schools have and are still getting results that indicate he's in the top half of the conference in regards to finishing.

Last 10 years

21/22 - finished 4th
20/21 - finished 3rd
19/20 - finished 5th
18/19 - finished 6th
17/18 - finished 12th
16/17 - finished 7th
15/16 - finished 4th
14/15 - finished 3rd
13/14 - finished 7th
12/13 - finished 4th
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
I guess my point in all of this is, I want the guy who can do it over and over and over. That can continue to put our program in the best spot to advance in a tournament where it's a one and done scenario. Getting rid of Fran doesn't guarantee Iowa is suddenly going to start going to Sweet 16's. Quite the opposite is possible and we've seen it right? Not just any coach works here and it appears that Iowa only cares enough about the sport to pay 10th best in a 14 team league. I would personally hold the brakes on wishing for a change but that's just me
 
Last edited:

kicker22

Well-Known Member
Might have been another NBA guy with Kris but seriously lol with this type of take. Kentucky, MSU, Virginia, and Kansas have all lost a lot more first round games with a lot more NBA guys than Iowa. Anything can happen in a one off. You can't tell me that Fran isn't a good tourney coach cause that's been disproven when he won the B1G tournament and also he made a run with his team in the NIT back in the day. You can't say that he fades every year because he's bucked that trend as well. All you can say is he hasn't been past the first weekend. That's not up for debate, but personally. I feel like that's not systemic, I feel like that it's not a trait of the coach. I feel like that's and Iowa thing at this point with it being since 1999. I can't put all that on Fran.

I personally think Fran's best Iowa years are in front of him and IMO, this gradual climb is to be expected at a developmental program like Iowa. As a fan of the Iowa program for 40 years, all I've ever asked is that you get there (the dance). Keep getting there, keep giving yourself chances to advance and you will.

I personally love the style of play. I love the players he gets. I love the program and how they carry themselves. Fran is 10th highest paid coach in the B1G. Iowa is getting Fran for a song and he performs considerably above his pay. Keep getting to the dance and they are going to advance.
I absolutely hope your right about Frans best years being in front of him as I'd love to see it and will admit that he's starting to grow on me. However, I'd argue about Fran disproving that he isn't a good tourney coach simply because he won the B1G tourney. While that is an accomplishment, as is his run in the NIT years ago, as you stated, the fact remains that he's yet to advance to the 2nd weekend of the only tourney that really matters since he's been here. I'm not trying to take anything away from him, or the teams that have beat us in the tournament, but for the most part they've been far from world beaters.

Unfortunately until he gets past the round of 32, while I may not totally agree with it, I think it's more than fair that he's criticized for not being a good tournament coach. And while I understand that it may be an "Iowa thing" I do think it's fair to hold him accountable as it's been his program for almost half of that drought. He's been here 10+years despite the rebuild he's had the time and the teams to get to that second weekend. So while I agree with you and think your post has a great deal of merit I'm not sure how it can be an "Iowa thing" and not systemic when it's his system that's been in place.
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
I guess my point in all of this is, I want the guy who can do it over and over and over. That can continue to put our program in the best spot to advance in a tournament where it's a one and done scenario. Getting rid of Fran doesn't guarantee Iowa is suddenly going to start going to Sweet 16's. Quite the opposite is possible and we've seen it right? Not just any coach works here and it appears that Iowa only cares enough about the sport to pay 10th best in a 14 team league. I would personally hold the brakes on wishing for a change but that's just me
I'm with you 100% here about pumping the brakes on wishing for a change at the top, but think it's more than appropriate for for their to be a camp that acknowledges fact that while he's done well in a number of areas, and has the program gaining momentum, he's also come up short in one of the areas that matters most.
 

InGoodCo

Well-Known Member
I'm with you 100% here about pumping the brakes on wishing for a change at the top, but think it's more than appropriate for for their to be a camp that acknowledges fact that while he's done well in a number of areas, and has the program gaining momentum, he's also come up short in one of the areas that matters most.
What matters to me most is we're in the dance. I want a coach that is getting us there regularly, that's what it takes to advance. To me anyways. That's all that matters. He has done well in that area but I agree that it is ABSOLUTELY fine to be a harsh critic of Fran's post season play.

I only care about March but I know that it's a one and done situation and good programs and coaches get upset all the time. Fran has been getting better seeds, better talent and having more success as his tenure goes on. Not the opposite. We lose our best player and the team takes a step forward, that's been a trend for a while. To me that's progress and I feel like the program is very healthy. That's all I can ask for in a one and done situation. That is why I think his best days are in front of him. I think this years team is better than last. I think the team after that could be too. Not wishful thinking, but I've been noticing the uptick in overall quality of program he's running for the last several years.

I also like to point out that Iowa in general does not seem interested in paying top dollar or investing in their basketball program like the rest of the league. It shows in the pay, it shows in the barn and it shows on the court. Iowa is getting a huge ROI on Fran. Crush him for post season success all you want, I just hope he stays at Iowa as long as he can because he's very good for our program over all. It doesn't appear that we want to compete with the Jones's or we wouldn't be paying Fran what they are or they would go out and pay someone else more. That's not Fran's deal, he's doing pretty well with the ingredients he's been given.

B1G Play
In seasons 1 - 4, Iowa was 30 - 42.
In seasons 5 - 8, Iowa was 38 - 34
In seasons 9 - 12, Iowa was 47 - 32.
 
Last edited:

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
Is there such a thing as a good tournament coach? Good coaches put together good teams, and good teams win tournament games. But there is also a lot of randomness in one and done tournaments. If Fran was a better coach he would have had better teams and had a lot better chance at doing good in tournaments. But then again, a lot worse teams have won games and a lot better teams have lost games in tournaments. That's where the randomness comes in.

I also hate the take that only March matters. I get a lot of joy from watching Iowa basketball November, December, January, and February.
 

trj

Well-Known Member
Heck, we had three the year before and couldn't get past the second round.....

I knew these posts were coming. Even though it happens to at least one blueblood every year. The reason it reopens the would is that unlike said bluebloods we haven't gotten out of the first weekend in over three decades.

There's only one way to fix it and we all know what it is. BTW don't get too excited about Keegan based on summer league play. Bobby Hansen used to knock down 25-30 a night in those games as well. Keegan still has a long road ahead of him.

I was going to post something similar in another thread. These Summer league games are equivalent to NFL pre-season games, where you have to keep things in perspective. 70-75% of these guys Keegan is going up against won't be on a NBA roster at the start of the regular season.

All that being said, like many, I struggle with where Keegan's ceiling is. You see these Summer league games and it forces you to reassess some things, like his ceiling being higher than you originally thought.
 
Last edited:

trj

Well-Known Member
Agree to Disagree. Keegan at 65% should have been enough to beat a bad Richmond team. Other than Pmac, no one else showed up and that is why they lost. Iowa had a pretty good set up for this year's tournament and they whiffed, it happens to everyone at some point.

Was it a missed opportunity? Yes. But the reason I'm not dwelling on it, is that everything InGoodCo. is getting at is 1000% correct. Where Fran has this program at, there are going to be so many more opportunities in the future.
 
Last edited:

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
Agree to Disagree. Keegan at 65% should have been enough to beat a bad Richmond team. Other than Pmac, no one else showed up and that is why they lost. Iowa had a pretty good set up for this year's tournament and they whiffed, it happens to everyone at some point.

Was it a missed opportunity? Yes. But the reason I'm not dwelling on it, is that everything InGoodCo. is getting at is 1000% correct. Where Fran has this program at, there are going to be so many more opportunities in the future.
A 65% Keegan is probably enough to beat Richmond 8 or 9 out of 10 times. If our budding NBA star was 100% we can probabky beat them 10 out of 10. Keegan almost never disappeared in games and he completely disappeared in that one.

We agree that we should have still won with an unhealthy Keegan. My only point is having a budding NBA star doesn't do a whole lot of good when an injury clearly affected his game.
 

trj

Well-Known Member
A 65% Keegan is probably enough to beat Richmond 8 or 9 out of 10 times. If our budding NBA star was 100% we can probabky beat them 10 out of 10. Keegan almost never disappeared in games and he completely disappeared in that one.

We agree that we should have still won with an unhealthy Keegan. My only point is having a budding NBA star doesn't do a whole lot of good when an injury clearly affected his game.

That's fair. The box score doesn't tell you everything, but if you could have gotten 10 points from one other person besides Pmac, they could/would/should have won with Keegan's bad ankle.

Screenshot 2022-07-16 1.09.28 PM.png
 
Top