Wait, What? did Colin Cowherd just say......

[HawkGold]

The decrease in sacks (based upon fewer negative rushing yards, I have not actually looked up the sack totals) points towards decreased risk taking. The dramatically greater yards per attempt and TDs/attempt does not support that.

I do remember the ends of the Arizona and Wisconsin games Stanzi taking sacks in situations where he really couldn't afford to take sacks. Would junior-year Stanzi have flung it out there and hoped for the best? Maybe, but it is tough to know exactly what was going on without being able to see the coaches' tape.

Maybe your eyes are being deceived by the confounding factor that the 2009 D gave up 15.4 pts/game (14.5 over their last 4 games) and the 2010 D gave up 17.0 pts/game (23.0 over their last 4 games as the LB group was decimated).

Or by the fact that Stanzi's performance took a dive over the last 5 games (rating over 170 prior, under 120 over the last 5 games) as he lost Adam Robinson and his starting guards?

Or the fact that the defense could not hold 4th quarter leads that Stanzi helped create vs. Wisc (6 pt lead), OSU (7 pt lead), NW (10 pt 4th Q lead), or Minnesota (4 pt lead). In those 4 games, Stanzi had 8 TDs and 1 int, and he passed for the go-ahead TD in the 2nd half of all but OSU (4th Q go-ahead TDs vs. Minn and Wisc).

It's hard to analyze I will grant that. One of my biggest memorize I think of his senior year was his passing what was a short over the middle (but short of the line of scrimmage or near the line) pass as the D was closing in on him to AR. AR was completely turned with his back to the line backers as if he was expecting the play to be dead, AR was totally clocked in the head as the ball arrived. AR was completely defenseless. It reminded me of seeing soldiers playing hot potato with a live grenade. Here you have it sort of a thing. AR was basically standing straight. Big Concussion out of it.

KF teams are always compounded. KF wants to have a conservative ship with everyone doing their prescribed protocols, but yet in the analysis there are always what the heck was that scenarios. Likely a lot more than most pretty decent programs.

At the time I had a hard time understanding why a decent QB with decent coaching would do that to AR.

It's another subject, but I felt AR got a lot of abuse in play calling and utilization.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Long had Hayden as his head coach and Bill Snyder as his OC. That was the extent of his better supporting cast. Wadley is about 90% of Ronnie Harmon. Noah Fant is better than Mike Flagg was. The bread and butter of our passing game was Bill Happel and Scott Helverson. There were crafty route runners who worked the sidelines well but it was long who frequently threw them open. Robert Smith could take the top off the defense from the slot but we have guys who could do that if Kirk and Brian turn them loose.

The point I'm making is that besides Harmon, Long didn't have all American talent around him, either. The difference was in the coaching staffs.

Long also had a young Quinn Early...

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I was there when NU beat Standford and I was there when Iowa destroyed Northwestern. I can't fathom how that Rose Bowl got so out of hand.

because, as much as the players were saying the right things ("Rose Bowl is granddaddy of the all", "We're excited to take the field in Pasadena", blah blah blah), the team didn't have their hearts in it. The MSU "letdown" took everything out of them.

 

[CP87]

It's hard to analyze I will grant that. One of my biggest memorize I think of his senior year was his passing what was a short over the middle (but short of the line of scrimmage or near the line) pass as the D was closing in on him to AR. AR was completely turned with his back to the line backers as if he was expecting the play to be dead, AR was totally clocked in the head as the ball arrived. AR was completely defenseless. It reminded me of seeing soldiers playing hot potato with a live grenade. Here you have it sort of a thing. AR was basically standing straight. Big Concussion out of it.

KF teams are always compounded. KF wants to have a conservative ship with everyone doing their prescribed protocols, but yet in the analysis there are always what the heck was that scenarios. Likely a lot more than most pretty decent programs.

At the time I had a hard time understanding why a decent QB with decent coaching would do that to AR.

It's another subject, but I felt AR got a lot of abuse in play calling and utilization.

I don't remember the play you are alluding to, but having Robinson in the MSU game late was a big mistake that definitely came back to haunt the Hawks.

This morning I was thinking about another way to evaluate Stanzi's 2010 season. Imagine everything played out exactly the same that season, except...

• Iowa did not give up the fake punt vs. Wisc OR stopped Wisc on the 4th and 5 they converted on that drive
• Iowa did not give up 2 long TD drives to NW in the 4th quarter
• Iowa did not allow a 4th and 10 conversion on a Terrell Pryor scramble vs. OSU
• Iowa did not allow a go-ahead TD drive vs. MN in the 4th

Stanzi has the exact same stats (3004 yards, 64.1% completion %, 25 TD/6 int), and did not do a thing differently. But the defense came through, and now Iowa is 11-1. People would call that one of the greatest QB seasons in Iowa history.

NO ONE would be saying, "I know his stats are good, but my eyes are telling me he just was not as good as 2009 when he threw for 2417 yards with 56.3% completion and 17/15 TD/Int." All it would have taken is for the defense to come through a few times for your eyes to completely change the story they were telling you.

Another crazy counterfactual: what if the guards and Robinson stayed healthy, and Stanzi continued his pace up through MSU? Through MSU, here is what Stanzi did:
135/199, 67.8% completion, 1922 yards, 9.7 yds/att, 19/2 TD/Int, average rating well over 170

After MSU, here is what he did:
86/150, 57.3% completion, 1082 yards, 7.2 yds/att, 6/4 TD/Int, average rating somewhere in the 120s.

With the exception of OSU, The defenses he faced over those last 5 games were not great (Indiana, NW, Minnesota, Missouri). Had he maintained his pace from early in the season he would have ended up with something like: 3120 yards, 31 TDs, 3 Int.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I don't remember the play you are alluding to, but having Robinson in the MSU game late was a big mistake that definitely came back to haunt the Hawks.

This morning I was thinking about another way to evaluate Stanzi's 2010 season. Imagine everything played out exactly the same that season, except...

• Iowa did not give up the fake punt vs. Wisc OR stopped Wisc on the 4th and 5 they converted on that drive
• Iowa did not give up 2 long TD drives to NW in the 4th quarter
• Iowa did not allow a 4th and 10 conversion on a Terrell Pryor scramble vs. OSU
• Iowa did not allow a go-ahead TD drive vs. MN in the 4th

Stanzi has the exact same stats (3004 yards, 64.1% completion %, 25 TD/6 int), and did not do a thing differently. But the defense came through, and now Iowa is 11-1. People would call that one of the greatest QB seasons in Iowa history.

NO ONE would be saying, "I know his stats are good, but my eyes are telling me he just was not as good as 2009 when he threw for 2417 yards with 56.3% completion and 17/15 TD/Int." All it would have taken is for the defense to come through a few times for your eyes to completely change the story they were telling you.

Another crazy counterfactual: what if the guards and Robinson stayed healthy, and Stanzi continued his pace up through MSU? Through MSU, here is what Stanzi did:
135/199, 67.8% completion, 1922 yards, 9.7 yds/att, 19/2 TD/Int, average rating well over 170

After MSU, here is what he did:
86/150, 57.3% completion, 1082 yards, 7.2 yds/att, 6/4 TD/Int, average rating somewhere in the 120s.

With the exception of OSU, The defenses he faced over those last 5 games were not great (Indiana, NW, Minnesota, Missouri). Had he maintained his pace from early in the season he would have ended up with something like: 3120 yards, 31 TDs, 3 Int.

Let's not forget the Arizona game, with a bounce-off-the-hands-Rick-6, and the D giving up that bomb after tying the score...which should have been a lead, but a missed PAT after Binns's pick-6...

 

[HawkGold]

I don't remember the play you are alluding to, but having Robinson in the MSU game late was a big mistake that definitely came back to haunt the Hawks.

This morning I was thinking about another way to evaluate Stanzi's 2010 season. Imagine everything played out exactly the same that season, except...

• Iowa did not give up the fake punt vs. Wisc OR stopped Wisc on the 4th and 5 they converted on that drive
• Iowa did not give up 2 long TD drives to NW in the 4th quarter
• Iowa did not allow a 4th and 10 conversion on a Terrell Pryor scramble vs. OSU
• Iowa did not allow a go-ahead TD drive vs. MN in the 4th

Stanzi has the exact same stats (3004 yards, 64.1% completion %, 25 TD/6 int), and did not do a thing differently. But the defense came through, and now Iowa is 11-1. People would call that one of the greatest QB seasons in Iowa history.

NO ONE would be saying, "I know his stats are good, but my eyes are telling me he just was not as good as 2009 when he threw for 2417 yards with 56.3% completion and 17/15 TD/Int." All it would have taken is for the defense to come through a few times for your eyes to completely change the story they were telling you.

Another crazy counterfactual: what if the guards and Robinson stayed healthy, and Stanzi continued his pace up through MSU? Through MSU, here is what Stanzi did:
135/199, 67.8% completion, 1922 yards, 9.7 yds/att, 19/2 TD/Int, average rating well over 170

After MSU, here is what he did:
86/150, 57.3% completion, 1082 yards, 7.2 yds/att, 6/4 TD/Int, average rating somewhere in the 120s.

With the exception of OSU, The defenses he faced over those last 5 games were not great (Indiana, NW, Minnesota, Missouri). Had he maintained his pace from early in the season he would have ended up with something like: 3120 yards, 31 TDs, 3 Int.

I don't know. That is a lot of what if's. Two happens and it's a pretty good year.

For sure we can agree about the MSU game. I was thinking it was Robinson, but whoever it was they were a back and they left the game.

 

[CP87]

I don't know. That is a lot of what if's. Two happens and it's a pretty good year.

For sure we can agree about the MSU game. I was thinking it was Robinson, but whoever it was they were a back and they left the game.

True, a lot of what ifs?, but not a single one of them having anything to do with Stanzi's performance. That is my point is that we are evaluating his season based upon a whole bunch of things that he had no control over.

 

[HawkGold]

True, a lot of what ifs?, but not a single one of them having anything to do with Stanzi's performance. That is my point is that we are evaluating his season based upon a whole bunch of things that he had no control over.

We can go on about stats and I can get and respect what you are saying. Iowa's O average 329 yards per game last year and stomped OSU. They also go curb stomped by Wisky in one of the worst stompings ever on O. Stats don't tell all. Wish we had Stanzi last year....

 

[CP87]

We can go on about stats and I can get and respect what you are saying. Iowa's O average 329 yards per game last year and stomped OSU. They also go curb stomped by Wisky in one of the worst stompings ever on O. Stats don't tell all. Wish we had Stanzi last year....

Good discussions, I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Ree4]

It's hard to analyze I will grant that. One of my biggest memorize I think of his senior year was his passing what was a short over the middle (but short of the line of scrimmage or near the line) pass as the D was closing in on him to AR. AR was completely turned with his back to the line backers as if he was expecting the play to be dead, AR was totally clocked in the head as the ball arrived. AR was completely defenseless. It reminded me of seeing soldiers playing hot potato with a live grenade. Here you have it sort of a thing. AR was basically standing straight. Big Concussion out of it.

I remember that game, was vs OSU - I was there and it was my bday. There should have been a PI call since the player got there early but nothing was called, still pissed about that - it was a long walk back to DT IC

 

[CP87]

I remember that game, was vs OSU - I was there and it was my bday. There should have been a PI call since the player got there early but nothing was called, still pissed about that - it was a long walk back to DT IC

Was it behind the LOS? There is no PI behind the LOS.

 

[Ree4]

Was it behind the LOS? There is no PI behind the LOS.

No it was a check down to about 2 yards downfield

 

[HawkGold]

No it was a check down to about 2 yards downfield

But that he delivered that ball.... AR to Stanzi, "No thx".

Should have been flagged. I was wrong about standing and waiting for it.

Still, a bad play.

A Rob was one of my fav Hawks ever and thought he got a raw deal.

2 things. Pot does help with concussions. Concussions lower impulse control. Obviously we don't have inside info, but that was never vetted out publicly.

Nice find btw.

Not sure it was PI but today would be targeting.

the old Stanzi would have either been picked later in the drive or made something happen... I think.

 

[Ree4]

But that he delivered that ball.... AR to Stanzi, "No thx".

Yeah it was a dumb throw 70 yards from the endzone with 90 sec to go ND.
God I'm still pissed after watching one of our players getting jobbed with no call, even though he left the program

 

[Northside Hawk]

Long also had a young Quinn Early...

Early in 1985 caught 16 passes for 281 yards and one TD. Hardly a difference maker in the Long era. The Hartlieb era was a different story and he ended up being one of my all time favorite Hawks.

In 1986 he caught 22 for 490 and three scores despite missing over half the year with a separated shoulder.

In 1986 he caught 61 for 978 and ten scores, his audition for a long NFL career.

He was also a triple jumper on the track and field team.

 

[pootspot]

because, as much as the players were saying the right things ("Rose Bowl is granddaddy of the all", "We're excited to take the field in Pasadena", blah blah blah), the team didn't have their hearts in it. The MSU "letdown" took everything out of them.

I was at the game and it looked like Iowa had the wrong cleat spikes on and couldn’t get any grip. By he time they changed it up game over. Players were sliding all over the place and couldn’t get any footing. IMO

 

[pootspot]

Let's not forget the Arizona game, with a bounce-off-the-hands-Rick-6, and the D giving up that bomb after tying the score...which should have been a lead, but a missed PAT after Binns's pick-6...

At this game as well. Heartbreak and so many ups and downs. What could’ve been