Wadley

[CP87]

The same can be said (or not said) about the pro-potential of running backs coming to Iowa if the Iowa running back routinely runs the 40 in approximately 4.9 seconds and can't catch the ball. The same can be said (or not said) about the pro-potential of the Iowa cornerback that mostly uses zone. The same can be said (or not said) about the pro-potential of the Iowa QB that is always considered a game manager. The Iowa Defensive ends, can they even sack the QB?

To the specific bolded point: I will assume you are again implicating that Daniels is slow (in relation to other DI RBs). I assert that this is patently false. As I pointed out above, he has 6 runs of 30+ yards this season (2 more called back because of penalty), and 3 runs of 50+ yards this season (2 more called back because of penalty). He has broken off long runs at the same rate as Wadley (about once every 35 carries; at a higher rate of once every 25 carries if not for the penalty-nullified runs). That would just not be possible if he was the plodding, fullback-like, 4.9 40 back you are making him out to be.

I would be willing to make a gentleman's wager with you that he will run in the 4.5 range at the combine and finish in the top half of tested backs in all the relevant combine tests.

For what it's worth, Weisman ran a 4.61 at the combine and finished 12/31 of tested backs (all backs, not just FBs), and he finished in the top 15% of the 3-cone and broad jump, and roughly the top 1/3 of short-shuttle and vertical.

 

[HomerChampless]

To the specific bolded point: I will assume you are again implicating that Daniels is slow (in relation to other DI RBs). I assert that this is patently false. As I pointed out above, he has 6 runs of 30+ yards this season (2 more called back because of penalty), and 3 runs of 50+ yards this season (2 more called back because of penalty). He has broken off long runs at the same rate as Wadley (about once every 35 carries; at a higher rate of once every 25 carries if not for the penalty-nullified runs). That would just not be possible if he was the plodding, fullback-like, 4.9 40 back you are making him out to be.

I would be willing to make a gentleman's wager with you that he will run in the 4.5 range at the combine and finish in the top half of tested backs in all the relevant combine tests.

For what it's worth, Weisman ran a 4.61 at the combine and finished 12/31 of tested backs (all backs, not just FBs), and he finished in the top 15% of the 3-cone and broad jump, and roughly the top 1/3 of short-shuttle and vertical.

I'm not going to bet on the 40 time for Daniels but I've seen all the times Daniels made those long runs and looked over his shoulders to see who was gaining on him... and they do gain on him. My point is: who's faster, Daniels or Wadley? The answer, there, is Wadley. And Wadley can catch passes, too. Why is Daniels targeted about twice as much as Wadley in most games, then? I doubt that is a part of Davis' game plan (if it were, I imagine, you'd be harping at Davis). I mean, how many short yardage situations does Iowa have in a game, anyway?

I've overheard on the TV Daniels has the best 10 yard shuttle time of any Iowa player. That doesn't necessarily make him fast since a good bit of being an Iowa tailback is waiting and reading the results of the O-Line's zone blocking and adjusting accordingly.

Yes. I'm intimating Daniels is slow. Slower than Wadley. Wadley should be getting the ball more.

 

[CP87]

I'm not going to bet on the 40 time for Daniels but I've seen all the times Daniels made those long runs and looked around to see who was gaining on him... and they do gain on him. My point is: who's faster, Daniels or Wadley? The answer, there, is Wadley. And Wadley can catch passes, too. Why is Daniels targeted about twice as much as Wadley in most games, then? I doubt that is a part of Davis' game plan (if it were, I imagine, you'd be harping at Davis). I mean, how many short yardage situations does Iowa have in a game, anyway?

I've overheard on the TV Daniels has the best 10 yard shuttle time of any Iowa player.

Yes. I'm intimating Daniels is slow. Slower than Wadley.

Excluding NDSU in which Wadley was limited due to injury, Daniels has 191 touches, and Wadley 173 touches. So Daniels has 17.4 touches per game, vs. Wadley's 15.7. Hardly twice as many opportunities.

There is a big difference between stating that Daniels is less explosive than Wadley (which most would agree with), and insinuating that he is a deficient athlete not worthy of being a P5 runningback, which is what you have been implying.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Excluding NDSU in which Wadley was limited due to injury, Daniels has 191 touches, and Wadley 173 touches. So Daniels has 17.4 touches per game, vs. Wadley's 15.7. Hardly twice as many opportunities.

There is a big difference between stating that Daniels is less explosive than Wadley (which most would agree with), and insinuating that he is a deficient athlete not worthy of being a P5 runningback, which is what you have been implying.

You can't bring facts to an opinion party.....
I agree with you for Iowa's style of play this Daniels is the workhorse perfect back for them. He's a poor mans Shonn Greene. Wadley is also really good. He's a poor mans Barry Sanders. I've heard him compared to Ronnie Harman and Tavian Banks but I think with his quick stop and start ability not to mention his cutting ability and vision I think he's way closer to Sanders as far as style of runner than either of those others. Is he as good well no he's not as strong and he's fumbled more than Sanders did I think. But he's really good. At this point I'm not nit picking over who shoulda got more touches and when. The last three games we got to see what they both could do at their best and it's pretty darn impressive.

 

[PCHawk]

You can't bring facts to an opinion party.....
I agree with you for Iowa's style of play this Daniels is the workhorse perfect back for them. He's a poor mans Shonn Greene. Wadley is also really good. He's a poor mans Barry Sanders. I've heard him compared to Ronnie Harman and Tavian Banks but I think with his quick stop and start ability not to mention his cutting ability and vision I think he's way closer to Sanders as far as style of runner than either of those others. Is he as good well no he's not as strong and he's fumbled more than Sanders did I think. But he's really good. At this point I'm not nit picking over who shoulda got more touches and when. The last three games we got to see what they both could do at their best and it's pretty darn impressive.

Daniels would start over Barry Sanders I bet.

 

[HawkGold]

You can't bring facts to an opinion party.....
I agree with you for Iowa's style of play this Daniels is the workhorse perfect back for them. He's a poor mans Shonn Greene. Wadley is also really good. He's a poor mans Barry Sanders. I've heard him compared to Ronnie Harman and Tavian Banks but I think with his quick stop and start ability not to mention his cutting ability and vision I think he's way closer to Sanders as far as style of runner than either of those others. Is he as good well no he's not as strong and he's fumbled more than Sanders did I think. But he's really good. At this point I'm not nit picking over who shoulda got more touches and when. The last three games we got to see what they both could do at their best and it's pretty darn impressive.

I would say LD is more like Sanders and Wadley more like Banks and Harman. RH could just flat out cut. Banks played RB like the soccer player he was. Loved HF, but will never understand why he didn't play more.

LD seems to have really good mid range acceleration. Wadley is instantly at speed at the first/2nd steps. LD I think does fill a void that Wadley doesn't. Wadley one has to corral. A hesitation on Daniels to corral him and his intermediate acceleration seems to through teams off. He seems to have great vision of the defensive back field. Wadley makes a move and then tries and figure it out while still cutting....like a soccer player.

Sanders was at times like a cannon ball.

 

[Gibsonian]

Data says that Wadley is more productive. Last year and this year. No fumble issues. Hopefully we will see more touches next year from him. Data says we will then get more yards. More yards is a good thing.

 

[HomerChampless]

Data says that Wadley is more productive. Last year and this year. No fumble issues. Hopefully we will see more touches next year from him. Data says we will then get more yards. More yards is a good thing.

Will Wadley get more touches next season? Will Wadley weigh more? Will Wadley block the blitzer to the QB? Will Wadley not fumble the ball? Will Wadley be in KF's doghouse? IMO, KF will find some way to limit Wadley's touches next season. That's why we all consider KF the offensive genius. More so than Davis, right?

 

[CP87]

I am actually worried about Wadley getting too many touches next year. I don't have concerns about his durability, we have seen nothing from him to indicate he can't handle a big workload. But KF clearly trusts him at this point, and next year he might be the only back in whom KF has trust. When that happens, we have seen some enormous workloads occur. That would be exciting from the perspective of seeing what Wadley can do with 25+ touches per game, but I would worry about the impact of that workload on any back.

Hopefully either Mitchell will return to the lineup, or Toks will rapidly ascend.

 

[Joshbrown]

You can't bring facts to an opinion party.....
I agree with you for Iowa's style of play this Daniels is the workhorse perfect back for them. He's a poor mans Shonn Greene. Wadley is also really good. He's a poor mans Barry Sanders. I've heard him compared to Ronnie Harman and Tavian Banks but I think with his quick stop and start ability not to mention his cutting ability and vision I think he's way closer to Sanders as far as style of runner than either of those others. Is he as good well no he's not as strong and he's fumbled more than Sanders did I think. But he's really good. At this point I'm not nit picking over who shoulda got more touches and when. The last three games we got to see what they both could do at their best and it's pretty darn impressive.

Kirk should use him like Fry used Harmon. Those two RBs have a lot in common. Both can catch. Both are fast. Both are great in space. Both from NJ. Both of similar stature. Both know how to fumble.

 

[tksirius]

Kirk should use him like Fry used Harmon. Those two RBs have a lot in common. Both can catch. Both are fast. Both are great in space. Both from NJ. Both of similar stature. Both know how to fumble.

$

 

[HomerChampless]

Excluding NDSU in which Wadley was limited due to injury, Daniels has 191 touches, and Wadley 173 touches. So Daniels has 17.4 touches per game, vs. Wadley's 15.7. Hardly twice as many opportunities.

There is a big difference between stating that Daniels is less explosive than Wadley (which most would agree with), and insinuating that he is a deficient athlete not worthy of being a P5 runningback, which is what you have been implying.

OK, why is Daniels getting almost as many touches as Wadley? Twice as many touches as ibnin the Nd

 

[uihawk82]

This is spot on. There are runs where LD gets 8, 10 or 12 yards that AW may have taken to the house, BUT there are runs where LD gets 5-7 yards where AW gets 1 or 2. Those 6 or 7 yard first down runs are huge for what Iowa does. It changes everything on 2nd and 3rd downs. They get more offensive plays and wear down the D, and then, BAM, a fresh AW takes one to the house. They are complimentary backs that both add significant value to what Iowa is trying to do.

This above is probably one of the best descriptions of why LD had 29 carries against Nebby and maybe more against Illinois and how AW gets his carries and busts some big ones. Remember LD had two very big runs called back, one against NDSU and one against Rutgers or Minny.

 

[CP87]

Because he is really good, he broke big plays at the same rate as Wadley this year, and most good teams these days split their carries amongst a stable of backs.

Let's compare their touches within Iowa's close games (excluding NDSU because Wadley was less than 100%):

• Rutgers: Daniels 14, Wadley 14
• NW: Daniels 18, Wadley 15
• Min: Daniels 17, Wadley 15
• Wisc: Daniels 11, Wadley 17
• Mich: Daniels 14, Wadley 28

So in the 5 close games, Daniels had 74 touches, and Wadley had 89 touches. Daniels greater # of touches overall in the season come primarily from the NDSU game (+10 touches vs. Wadley) and the "grind the clock" time at the end of games in which Iowa led by more than 2 scores (Purdue, Illinois, Nebraska, etc.). Do you think Iowa would have been better served giving Wadley those pounding carries at the end of games to eat clock, or to save him from more high-leverage situations (like the 28 carries in the Michigan game)?

 

[HomerChampless]

Excluding NDSU in which Wadley was limited due to injury, Daniels has 191 touches, and Wadley 173 touches. So Daniels has 17.4 touches per game, vs. Wadley's 15.7. Hardly twice as many opportunities.

There is a big difference between stating that Daniels is less explosive than Wadley (which most would agree with), and insinuating that he is a deficient athlete not worthy of being a P5 runningback, which is what you have been implying.

Daniels had twice as many touches as Wadley in the Illinois game. Daniels had 29 touches to Wadley's 18 in the Nebraska game.

Why should Daniels get about the same number of touches as Wadley? Wadley is more explosive. Wadley is more durable. Which running back seeks contact and which running back eludes contact? Which running back has been on the DL for a longer amount of time in his career? Daniels.

Isn't it an irony that you want the same number of touches for Daniels and Wadley and you also want to dispose of Davis because his pass offense isn't offensive enough? Yeah, you're an offensive genius.

 

[CP87]

Daniels had twice as many touches as Wadley in the Illinois game. Daniels had 29 touches to Wadley's 18 in the Nebraska game.

Why should Daniels get about the same number of touches as Wadley? Wadley is more explosive. Wadley is more durable. Which running back seeks contact and which running back eludes contact? Which running back has been on the DL for a longer amount of time in his career? Daniels.

Isn't it an irony that you want the same number of touches for Daniels and Wadley and you also want to dispose of Davis because his pass offense isn't offensive enough? Yeah, you're an offensive genius.

So you are saying we should have given our most important offensive skill player, our leader in yards from scrimmage and TDs, our only skill player to make any of the top-3 all-conference teams, more carries in the 3rd and 4th quarters of double-digit blowouts?

From the start of this thread, your argument has NEVER been that Wadley should receive a few more of Daniels' carries because he is more explosive. Others have made that claim, and I have not argued against because it is a reasonable assertion. Your argument, to paraphrase, has been that Wadley is criminally underutilized in favor of a slow, unathletic fullback masquerading as a runningback, whom the head coach is favoring due to pettiness or gross incompetence. You have made false claim after false claim to try to prove your point. All I have done is refute these with data. Your claims...

• Daniels is a fullback-like ballcarrier who doesn't deserve to be getting carries
  • Refuting information: Daniels has been objectively very successful this season, and he has produced big runs at the same rate as Wadley.
• Daniels is unathletic (you specifically throw out an estimate of 4.9 in the 40)
  • I have personally witnessed Daniels run a 40 in 4.5, and you can take a peak at the Iowa running back testing record boards if you doubt his athleticism
• Daniels receives twice as many opportunities as Wadley
  • Refuting information: overall (excluding NDSU in which Wadley was hampered), Daniels has average 1.7 more touches per game. In the highest leverage games, Wadley has averaged 3 more touches per game than Daniels

Now in this last post you are talking about me wanting Davis fired and criticizing the passing offense, 2 things that have nothing to do with this thread, and two things I don't think I have ever mentioned at all on this board. And to top it all off, the thing that really cuts deep, you question my unassailable status as an offensive genius, which was really just beyond the pale.

I know you hate Coach Ferentz. You have made that abundantly clear, and there are plenty of rational reasons why you might want Iowa to move on from him. But you let your hatred of him lead you to irrational criticisms of all aspects of the Iowa program, in this case disparaging a young man who all acknowledge as a wonderful leader who has bled, sweat, and performed admirably for the team you claim to support.

If you really are an Iowa fan capable of rational thought, your only response at this point is basically to admit you were too harsh and that you have not made a single truthful, valid post in this whole discussion. Or maybe you are a troll, and you will just continue along in the same vein.

 

[PCHawk]

Remind me to never get into a debate with CP87.

 

[HomerChampless]

So you are saying we should have given our most important offensive skill player, our leader in yards from scrimmage and TDs, our only skill player to make any of the top-3 all-conference teams, more carries in the 3rd and 4th quarters of...

Blowouts? Yes, I'm well aware of KF's philosophy. Take as much time off the clock as possible for the entirely of the game offensively and defensively. Is it yours as well? Is there no doubt why Iowa always has so many close games against the good teams and the bad teams when Iowa's/KF's philosophy is to take as much time off the clock as possible?

See, I think bleeding the game clock for the entirety of the game makes anyone the opposite of an offensive expert (and defensive expert). KF, for sure..

How well does Iowa do in hurry up no-huddle offenses, for example? I remember the Iowa game against Wisconsin in 2010. Wisconsin had just gone ahead 31-30 and there was less than a minute for Iowa to get into field goal range from approximately their own 25 yard line and Iowa attempted 4 straight passing plays that ended up in sacks. Stanzi looked lost on the field trying to find an open receiver against the Wisconsin blitz. His head was up but, as soon as the blitz came, his head went down and he started to scramble. Then in 2011, KF allowed the offense to become no-huddle in the Pittsburgh game and Iowa came from behind for the win. Lots of my Iowa buddies were hoping, expecting Iowa to employ no-huddle offense more often in games following the Pittsburgh game but that never materialized. KF in one of his pressers, responded to a no-huddle question by flatly stating no-huddle would never be used for the remainder of that 2010 season. (That's one of the reasons why KF is known and loved as Kurt Ferentz).

How is Iowa's no-huddle offense, now? I mean, is it used more often and more successfully than 2010? I'd say the answer to that is yes and you can thank Greg Davis for that. Iowa having a dynamic running and pass catching threat out of the backfield like Wadley, like Canzeri?. You can thank Davis for that. Opening up Iowa's passing game to more than just crossing routes and posts? You can thank Davis for that. Davis has opened up Iowa's offense. Too many who know so little about offense want to tear him down. As an Iowa fan, that offends me... Now, someone needs to begin work on the defense..

 

[HomerChampless]

...From the start of this thread, your argument has NEVER been that Wadley should receive a few more of Daniels' carries because he is more explosive. Others have made that claim, and I have not argued against because it is a reasonable assertion. Your argument, to paraphrase, has been that Wadley is criminally underutilized in favor of a slow, unathletic fullback... <homerchampless says, Daniels is an athletic fullback, a non-athletic tailback> ...

Daniels had twice as many touches as Wadley in the Illinois game. Daniels had 29 touches to Wadley's 18 in the Nebraska game.

Why should Daniels get about the same number of touches as Wadley? Wadley is more explosive. Wadley is more durable. Which running back seeks contact and which running back eludes contact? Which running back <of the two> has been on the DL for a longer amount of time in his career? Daniels.

Isn't it an irony that you want the same number of touches for Daniels and Wadley and you also want to dispose of Davis because his pass offense isn't offensive enough? Yeah, you're an offensive genius.

Here's a previous post of mine on this thread.