I wanted CJB to be given a shot early in the year. That didn't happen. But this whole thread about AW is stupid. Not one of you know how banged up he was early in the year and none of you know how much he improved and learned the system as the year went on. I love his potential. But all this thread does is fuel people coaching dreams
Wadley: More Proof That Ferentz Doesn't Put the Best Players On the Field
- Thread starter iowalaw
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tm3308
Well-Known Member
This is the key part of the statement. Yes, I'm sure Ferentz BELIEVES he's playing the players who give him the best chance to win. That doesn't mean he can't be wrong in his assessment or that his criteria for making those assessments are obsolete. Whether he's consciously thinking that he should keep more talented players on the bench or if he just can no longer accurately identify the best players, the result is the same.
CJHawkeye
Well-Known Member
This is pretty astute. Being accurate in our statements does make the debate more relevant. Kirk isn't refusing to play the best players except maybe in edge cases of attitude problems and even there the evidence is marginal that Kirk really banishes players to the doghouse. No, more likely he thinks he is playing the best players either because 1) he is, we don't see practice... 2) he isn't because he isn't really assessing talent well, or 3) as you say, his criteria for best is different from ours. Best for us might be play makers, dynamic athletes etc. and best for him might be best understanding of the playbook and system, most consistent (even if consistent at a lower ceiling than others) etc.
If #3 is true, I think that is the strongest argument that Ferentz needs to consider moving on. That mentality doesn't jive with what is going on in college football these days. The flavor of football is higher risk for higher reward and the past several years have proven via our record compared to others that that beats conservative ball control. The pendulum in college football may swing back the other way some day, but its not there right now.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
While I'm certain that Coach McMartin would welcome him, he was also recruited by Minnesota and Wisconsin.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
I'm reminded of the Pat Dye (former Auburn FB coach) quote: “Nothing has changed about what makes a winner. A winner works his butt off and is dependable. He’s not always the most talented, but he gives everything on every play.â€
tm3308
Well-Known Member
And none of that is exclusive to upperclassmen. There's no good reason to not get young guys (like Wadley this year, but he's hardly the first) a chance to get in and get a real taste for what it's like to play on this level as a freshman. Like Jon talked about in the podcast, Wisconsin grooms the next great back and they start that process right away. We wait for the starter to either get hurt or graduate.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
And none of that is exclusive to upperclassmen. There's no good reason to not get young guys (like Wadley this year, but he's hardly the first) a chance to get in and get a real taste for what it's like to play on this level as a freshman. Like Jon talked about in the podcast, Wisconsin grooms the next great back and they start that process right away. We wait for the starter to either get hurt or graduate.
Eda
Well-Known Member
Scott and Mark brought up an interesting point in OnIowa podcast a about a month ago. They pointed to at least six positions that a current player was starting over the "incumbent". I know a lot of people in here like to point to upperclassman always getting the nod over "more talented" underclassmen; but it's simply not always true. If you go position to position, you'll find several examples to the contrary.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why more aren't complaining about the REAL problem here. WTF can't we get a kid to sign with Iowa who can beat out a converted FB playing RB????
There are many reason's to bash KF, not playing a young kid with a fumbling problem isn't one of them. While I'm not a fan of Weisman at RB, nobody has beaten him out. KF had given everyone, and I mean everyone a chance to do so. Daniels and his 2.2 YPC didn't do it, Canzeri isn't healthy, Bullock is Bullock, and Wadley fumbled his way out of it.
Complain all you want about not playing those other guys, Weisman is flat out outproducing them on the field. Avg. over 4.0 YPC, Weisman check. Need 2 yards on a given play, Weisman check. Ball security, Weisman check. If you can't do those 3 simple freaking things (all of them, not one of them) then you can't beat out a converted FB and you don't deserve the bulk of the carries.
There are many reason's to bash KF, not playing a young kid with a fumbling problem isn't one of them. While I'm not a fan of Weisman at RB, nobody has beaten him out. KF had given everyone, and I mean everyone a chance to do so. Daniels and his 2.2 YPC didn't do it, Canzeri isn't healthy, Bullock is Bullock, and Wadley fumbled his way out of it.
Complain all you want about not playing those other guys, Weisman is flat out outproducing them on the field. Avg. over 4.0 YPC, Weisman check. Need 2 yards on a given play, Weisman check. Ball security, Weisman check. If you can't do those 3 simple freaking things (all of them, not one of them) then you can't beat out a converted FB and you don't deserve the bulk of the carries.
I just don't think it has anything to do with unper classmen and under classmen. It's all about playing experience. If someone graduates and the 2 people in line to take his place are a sophomore and a senior, the sophomore might win the job if he's better. The problem is when the senior was the starter the year before and the sophomore improved enough to be better. In that instance the sophomore is probably riding pine for the year.
I think runningback is about the easiest position for the average fan to spot talent. I could see plain as day that Wadely was our most talented back after about 5 carries. What he did in 1 half of football is so much better than we have seen at iowa since at least '09. You can't blame it on the compition either. Weisman, Canzeri, Bullock, and Coker have played plenty of terrible teams to know that they simply don't have the ability to do what Wadley did. I'm not talking about stats either. I'm talking about making the most yards possible on every play.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
There's also a difference between a guy like Meier taking over a starting spot from an older player, and a guy like Wadley or Willies doing so. Meier is a junior, while the other two are freshmen.
I'm looking at the depth chart and these are the guys who unseated an incumbent, either before the year or since.
Tommy Gaul (technically unseated Walsh in the reshuffling of the line) - Sr. unseating a Jr.
Macon Plewa over Adam Cox (injury) - Jr. over a Jr.
Nate Meier over Mike Hardy - Jr. over a Sr.
Josey Jewell and Bo Bower over Travis Perry and Reggie Spearman - Freshmen over a sophomore and junior
Greg Mabin over Sean Draper and Reece Flemming - Sophomore over a sophomore and junior
Dillon Kidd over Connor Kornbrath- Junior over Junior
Matt Vandeberg over KMM - Sophomore over Senior (punt returns)
One thing that stands out here is that the majority of the guys "stealing" a starting spot are juniors or seniors. Of the three positions that have seen an underclassmen emerge, two were considered wide open competitions from the get go, as there was no returning starter. The third doesn't really count, since Vandeberg was put at PR either to help prevent KMM from getting injured on special teams or because he's better at ball security than KMM. He's not a dynamic punt returner, not even more so than KMM.
I could be missing one or two positions, but I think this pretty much covers all of them that have seen challengers take a starting spot.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
You basically stated the point I outlined with my last post.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Weisman is good at certain things. But he's not a bell cow, and even with the potential for fumbles, a guy like Wadley can bring more to the offense. Our ground game's complete lack of big play ability has absolutely had a role in our run of mediocrity since 2010. Even Adam Robinson, who didn't have elite speed, managed to hit the occasional big play. Weisman has and always will struggle to do so. What he turns into 4 yard gains, other backs can turn into 50.
Wadley has 30 carries this year and fumbled twice. Weisman had 1 fumble in his first 30 carries. But we stuck with Weisman largely out of necessity, and it worked out just fine in terms of ball security. And at the end of the day, Ferentz doesn't have to name Wadley the starter. The issue isn't necessarily that he refuses to start a guy like Wadley. It's that he doesn't use those guys at all. It's basically all on Weisman and Canzeri at this point.
I understand Dean's logic but I'm big time with you on this one. We needed more out of our running game too badly to let a higher risk of fumbles get in the way. We know exactly what we are getting with Weisman and it's not enough. We've seen enough from Wadley to know that he has what we've been missing.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Fumbling 1 time in your first 30 carries this year after a track record of never fumbling is one thing.....If Weismans first 30 carries as a RB he fumbled twice he would have had a hard time getting more carries. Certainly you understand the difference.
Listen I wish Wadley would have played more, but the first lesson for a RB is ball security. If you listened to Wadley after the jNW game when he fumbled he thought he wasn't going to play anymore (I'm sure cause the coaches stress every day ball security). Instead they all patted him on the back and said it happens, now get back out there. Then he gets out there against Minny and fumbles again, yet he was given another chance, and even though it wasn't a fumble he put the ball on the deck against Ill. and that was it.
Like I said I think that I probably still give him carries, especially at the end of the Ill. game, as he changes the game and brings a dimension to the team we don't see without him. Wadley was given a chance, he just literally let it slip away. I think the more obvious bone to pick about the whole thing is how in the world we can't recruit over a Weisman at all.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Weisman fumbled once in his first 30 carries as the starting tailback in 2012. Not his first 30 carries this year. He kept the job back then out of necessity, and it's worked out okay. So there's no good reason to completely shut Wadley out of the offense over a couple fumbles. He can still be a very valuable part of the offense, even if you don't choose to make him your feature back.
I believe Sean WELSH was the odd man out on the line. He is a RS Freshman
