Tyler Goodson
- Thread starter HawkFanMN
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okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Agreed. In a standard running formation, Sargent looks much better between the tackles than Goodson. Goodson looks good out of the wildcat and if he has perfectly clean blocking, but Sargent seems to bust through a couple of guys on his runs between the tackles. My guess is it is just O'Keefe and Brian being the masterful tacticians they are and getting a bunch of tendency tape that will give us a huge play when we need it against Ohio State for the de facto conference title in a few weeks.
No you are not. I see it and don't like it. Sometimes he preps to go down when it looks bad for a gain. Really can see it in the first half of the Nebraska game. He did better in the 2nd half, I am guessing a coach spoke to him about it. I really like to see Sargent running the ball myself. He never does that crap. His avg per carry is better because of it imo. They are really close in talent, just different styles. If you saw the first game against Purdue was a tale of two halves. In first half, he ran with extreme effort and looked hard to tackle. 2nd half, went down much easier. That's when I began watching him and observing the same thing you are seeing.
Sargent is tough. He plays tough. He doesn't have much wiggle to him but he turns 2 yard gains into 4 & 5 yard ones. Goodson turns 2 yard gains into no gain if I were to kinda compare how they run. Neither is the perfect back but Goodson is kinda like LeShawn McCoy was in his hay day. Not physical would rather dance around ya can catch the ball well. But has limited effectiveness if you're going to try pounding him between the tackles much
Fryowa
Administrator
Extremely short sighted take.
Goodson isn't as physical a runner, I'll give you that, but he offers more options when he's in the game, and he opens up defenses. Goodson is a threat out of the slot as well and he has 124 yards on 13 receptions. Sargent is a non-issue in that regard.
If you watch most of LaPorta and Beyer's receptions, Goodson helps open their coverage up and either the TE or Goodson forces his own guy into de facto man coverage (doesn't matter which one). As long as Petras sees it in time it's almost impossible to defend. That's exactly what Belichick did with Gronk/Hernandez and Welker/Edelman. It's not a coincidence that Brian does it here too.
Goodson's value isn't just in his running...when teams know he can break out of the slot just as quick as say, a reverse to the other side, they have no choice but to send a guy at him. If that nets a 10 yard throw to a TE or someone else, then Goodson had a hand in those yards too.
Similar to how well Wadley/Daniels and Wadley/Butler offset each other, there's zero reason to go with one or the other.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Sargent does seem to be locked in and running great. He's trusting his o-line and that the holes will open up and not hesitating.
Perhaps Goodson should line up 1-2 yards back more so the holes are open when he's encountering them.
Perhaps Goodson should line up 1-2 yards back more so the holes are open when he's encountering them.
Fryowa
Administrator
Now compare their all purpose yards.
Sure, Goodson has many more yards in pass catching and with the Wildcat. I appreciate what he does but sometimes I struggle to like it sometimes in the way he does it. If Sargent was given the number of opportunities that Goodson has I think all purpose would be in Mekhi's favor as well. I see a senior who has given alot to the team and runs harder/smarter/better vision that imo should be getting 1/2 the carries, not 1/3. And I think we'd see more scoring and more yards overall if they went this route. We won't ever know so not much use in debating it.
GesterHawk
Well-Known Member
I have been telling the guys I watch the games with, I think Goodson is banged up in some fashion and he is not playing at 100%.
He usually does run tougher through the middle than he is now. Now he tries to break it outside by at least an extra gap or two. Definitely not running like himself.
He usually does run tougher through the middle than he is now. Now he tries to break it outside by at least an extra gap or two. Definitely not running like himself.
I agree with you and @Hawkfnntn that he has been a touch off lately (by his standards), but I don't think it has anything to do with how hard he is running. I just think he is struggling to see things right now, and a lot of that starts with trying to make too much happen, which leads to not trusting your blocks, which leads to not maximizing your runs. Wadley went through this his senior year when he was trying so hard to carry the offense. He just couldn't get on track in a few games, and then Butler would come in and rip a few off.
But just like Wadley, Goodson is too darn good to stay down for long. He powered for 111 yards vs. Nebbie on 30 carries (and another 21 yards receiving), he is still getting the job done to say the least. But he is due for a few highlight runs soon, hopefully this weekend.
Yeah by no means was I knocking him by analyzing him the way I was either he's a damn good RB and his versatility makes it tough to take him off the field frankly. Another thing is I think teams are playing us tougher too. It was noticeable how NE and IL both played really hard early on and schematically were going to make running the ball traditionally tough to do. Now as the games went on into the 2nd half we wore them down some as we'd hope and broke open a few runs. I mean if we are calling a spade a spade NE and IL played us pretty dang tough early on defensively. They made us earn it. We are fortunate to have 2 guys capable of 20 plus touches a game and we can go with the hot hand or situationally more prudent player to use.
Chickenlounge
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see the stats on YAC. I think Goodson is more valuable overall, but Sargent seems to always get positive yards, especially after first contact.
kameltoez102
Well-Known Member
I’ve noticed since day one that he stops moving his feet as he is close to getting hit which causes him to usually go backwards. There have been a few times he will lower his shoulder and deliver a blow but it has typically been in the open field and doesn’t do a lot to the defender. He also tends to get his body turned so he is not square to the line especially on runs that he gets hit behind the line.
Sargent does a better job at keeping square and keeps his feet moving. Not ragging on Goodson that is just what I see and something I think he can work on. We also really underutilize him in the passing game.
It’s my belief he should replace 5 carries a game with receptions and replace his carries with IKM or Sargent. I think you can see how his lack of physicality is working on his body the last few weeks, he seems like the hits are starting to wear on him. With the stable of backs we have I don’t know why he is getting over 20 carries a game. Save him for wildcat and spread out to receive. Let’s the others pound inside
Sargent does a better job at keeping square and keeps his feet moving. Not ragging on Goodson that is just what I see and something I think he can work on. We also really underutilize him in the passing game.
It’s my belief he should replace 5 carries a game with receptions and replace his carries with IKM or Sargent. I think you can see how his lack of physicality is working on his body the last few weeks, he seems like the hits are starting to wear on him. With the stable of backs we have I don’t know why he is getting over 20 carries a game. Save him for wildcat and spread out to receive. Let’s the others pound inside
iloveyoularrystation
Well-Known Member
I really only noticed that the last two weeks and only when 330 pound dtackles had a free shot at him. i don't think that's the norm for him but i'd have to deep dive tape or something. it just has looked glaring on tv the last two weeks cause the blocking has either been super good or super bad and not much in between the last two weeks. they've had free rusher dtackles in our last two games and that's been a big part of it i think.
proudhawkfan21
Well-Known Member
I dont think comparing one good rb with another is insulting. More of a compliment to both. I think Goodson with the eye test looks a tish slower than last year. Compared to Mekhi's running style, easy to wonder if they aren't on the same level. I think the line is doing well collectively, but the right side tackle spot is in consistent. Tends to make Sergeant's style look more effective
MattinColumbus
Well-Known Member
Tyler also brings the ability to house it from about anywhere on the field. Sargent’s got 35-40 yards in him tops. Add in the pass receptions and at least IMO you want to get him 25 touches or so a game. That said, I agree he’s seemed a bit slow or maybe just tentative. But there’s part of me wondering why we’re complaining about 203 yards in the past 2 games.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Why wasn't it 204? We have to get better.
