Trying to hide QB caught up to us

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
Now granted QB isn't the only reason we lost or even the largest reason to Purdue so I'm prefacing my takes on this with that. Oline playcalling and Defense overall all were equally as bad. However we've been able to hide a mediocre QB up to this point because our D had been just so so good. Not just with holding opponents down with points but with field position due to TOs and special teams.

Once a team doesn't turn it over against us and forces us to go the length of the field more often we were going to be in trouble. That's a part of what played out here. The last couple picks I'm not going to blast Petras for too much cause game was already long over and that was pretty much desperation mode. But his overall play and lack of getting rid of the ball to avoid sacks just kills an offense. Since he has little pocket mobility/awareness (Stanley was significantly better at it and I don't think anyone woulda called him great at it) it just puts us in a box. He has to have a clean pocket with 1st or 2nd read be open on time for him to even have much of a chance at making a positive play happen. We all know football doesn't work that way a lot of the time. I know the Oline sucks. They hardly even slowed down their Dline some of the time. But that's where BF comes in. He's got to be smarter with how he calls a game knowing that. It's on him to help hide a limited upside QB and get the most out of him.

I imagine there's going to be a lot of tinkering goin on during this bye week. At least I hope so. I know we aren't changing Qbs. For those wishing for that I really hope you're wrong. Because our backups from what little we've seen aren't remotely ready. (which is unfortunate and another topic all together) You'd think with 2 other QBs that have been in the program for multiple seasons now that wouldn't be the case. But it is. So it's ride or die with Petras and BF. Hopefully they can find a way to get us on track. Wisky for as bad as they've looked we sure as hell can't look at them (or most games we have left) as a gimmie.
 

Casualfan

Well-Known Member
Would have been nice to see Padilla get some action. The game was over with Petrus in there late.
 

uihawk82

Well-Known Member
Petras is plenty good enough given the time to throw. How easily we forget him leading us back from a 17-3 deficit with some really good throws against PSU. He played really well at ISU and at Maryland for his road tests.

Petras starts slow and I have noted that and others have posted his passing stats by qtr. The coaches need to do some things to get him going because that is their job and Petras needs to think about how to overcome the slow starts. Although that was a great slant pass he through to Keegan to start the Purdue game. And I do not even remember Brian F calling that play again.
 

hawkfan2679

Well-Known Member
Petras is plenty good enough given the time to throw. How easily we forget him leading us back from a 17-3 deficit with some really good throws against PSU. He played really well at ISU and at Maryland for his road tests.

Petras starts slow and I have noted that and others have posted his passing stats by qtr. The coaches need to do some things to get him going because that is their job and Petras needs to think about how to overcome the slow starts. Although that was a great slant pass he through to Keegan to start the Purdue game. And I do not even remember Brian F calling that play again.
Our quick game is severely lacking and I'm not really sure why. If we're not doing a 3 step drop to hit the TE on the stick from under center, the quick game stuff seems few and far between. From under center it seems like we are 5 or 7 step (although we do try to protect Petras quite a bit with play-action) and from the gun (which counts for 2 steps) we're usually 3-5 step. With a line that is porous as ours, I would think the quick game stuff could be successful when used more frequently.

Sidebar: I might be completely wrong here, and it seems counter-intuitive, but I think we either need to stop helping our tackles with our backs OR just don't release them. I have mentioned that I haven't come to watch the entire Purdue game, but I feel like there were 2 instances in the first half where we were pressured because the tackle's pass-set appeared to be expecting "help/chip" from the back and the chip wasn't as physical as it needed to be. So the tackle is out of place, the back didn't help the route concept anyway, and Petras had to throw it away.

Did do a quick charting, because I was interested based on your first paragraph above, of our offensive plays after we got down 17-3 to Penn State. I excluded the knees that we took but based on the PBP, I'm guessing that god awful 3rd down play where Petras just fell down because Tracy wasn't wide open is in Petras' rushing stats.

Rushing attempts: 29
Rushing yards: 91
Jones: 2/14
IKM: 4/11
Goodson: 17/50
Petras: 4/5
Tracy: 1/3
Pottebaum: 1/8


Passing Plays Called: 23
Pass attempts: 22 (1 sack)
Pass completions: 16
TDs: 2
INTs: 0

In the passing game we targeted 9 different receivers, 8 of whom caught passes. But other than the Ragaini TD, nary a single pass was completed with more than 11 air yards (i.e. nothing further downfield than 11 yards from LOS). Here's the breakdown on the yards gained per completion:

8
0
3
42 (Keagan Johnson catch and run)
5
4
8
4
0
8
11 (high water mark for air yards)
11
44 (Ragaini TD)
9
22
2

Pass attempt dispersion:
WRs: 12/14, 146 yards, 2 TD's
TEs: 2/3, 19 yards, 0 TD's
RBs: 2/3, 16 yards, 0 TD's
Throwaways: 0/2
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
Petras is plenty good enough given the time to throw. How easily we forget him leading us back from a 17-3 deficit with some really good throws against PSU. He played really well at ISU and at Maryland for his road tests.

Petras starts slow and I have noted that and others have posted his passing stats by qtr. The coaches need to do some things to get him going because that is their job and Petras needs to think about how to overcome the slow starts. Although that was a great slant pass he through to Keegan to start the Purdue game. And I do not even remember Brian F calling that play again.
We aren't able to do that consistently. And he's not mobile enough to buy even that split second more time to set his feet and throw. He can't hardly throw on the move at all. He's a tough SOB. I'll give him that he's going to have to be to try and improve because I stand by my critiques of him.

BFs play calling as you alluded to is probably the fastest way to improve things. Calling a more diverse game in which either gets him more time to throw and or gets receivers open is the name of the game. Easier said then done but man trying to do what we did against Purdue most of the day won't work.
 

1980HAWKFAN

Well-Known Member
Whatever changes or improvements are made by BF, it couldn't come at a worse time. Facing Wisconsin in there house against their defense is going to be brutal. I look for Wisconsin to send the house at Petras and he will be lucky to come out of that game with his head attached to his body. I won't be shocked if we don't score a touchdown.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
Petras is the worst QB as a starter in the Ferentz years.
Jake C I think gets that trophy. He was so bad that he got benched for Stanzi who wasn't really ready yet. But Petras is on that short list so far. He's got a few weeks to try and flip some minds but I think he pretty much is who he is.
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
We've got another year and a half of it. People better get used to the idea.
Yup it could certainly shape up that way. If Iowa were to start losing games and he plays poorly (like this last week) I could see going into next off season their being a real competition. His saving grace has been winning pretty much. I don't think his play should entitle him to anything. Hell Jake Rudock wasn't playing anywhere near this poorly when he was pushed out. Problem is we don't seem to have a CJB behind him.

Losing is what'll force a change. Especially if we should be winning and he's the main reason they don't. You don't see many situations like what's going on at OU very often. Where you're trying to decide between a good qb and a great one. It's usually between a mediocre one and another that's probably just not ready yet.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
I don’t dispute that. If the OL is struggling, why play an inaccurate QB with no ability to scramble?
Because the alternative is even worse?

Because we don't need to have happen to the Hawkeyes what happened to PSU when Clifford went down?

Because a QB controversy is WAY more than just subbing a backup in?

Doing that mid-season is sending a clear message to your players and locker room that you as a coach have reached the point that you have no idea what is wrong or how to fix it. Changing QBs halfway through the season is an absolute last resort and you don't do something fucking stupid like that unless the season is already lost. I don't know if you've played team sports, but even at the high school level those things cause rifts in your team. It's not good.

What do you do then if it doesn't work? What if Padilla stinks the joint up worse than Petras? At that point you've completely lost control of the situation. You think you're just gonna put Petras back in and everything will be hunky dory like you never benched him in the first place?

The Hawks are still in first place right now, and Purdue isn't going to beat OSU and MSU. We already can't run the ball, what would subbing Padilla in prove? That he can get back to the LOS instead of lose 5 yds every time he gets pressured because of our terrible OL? Yeaaaaahhhh. That'll fix the problem. I don't know if you watched Padilla in the spring game, but he's not exactly John Elway and he's definitely not a better passer than Petras.
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
Yup it could certainly shape up that way. If Iowa were to start losing games and he plays poorly (like this last week) I could see going into next off season their being a real competition. His saving grace has been winning pretty much. I don't think his play should entitle him to anything. Hell Jake Rudock wasn't playing anywhere near this poorly when he was pushed out. Problem is we don't seem to have a CJB behind him.

Losing is what'll force a change. Especially if we should be winning and he's the main reason they don't. You don't see many situations like what's going on at OU very often. Where you're trying to decide between a good qb and a great one. It's usually between a mediocre one and another that's probably just not ready yet.
Not being that guy, but I'm not sure an open QB competition in the spring is the answer when there's little to no time provided by the line. I think regardless of who takes the snaps it's as much as the Oline not being ready as it is the QB.
 

Knight78

Well-Known Member
Now granted QB isn't the only reason we lost or even the largest reason to Purdue so I'm prefacing my takes on this with that. Oline playcalling and Defense overall all were equally as bad. However we've been able to hide a mediocre QB up to this point because our D had been just so so good. Not just with holding opponents down with points but with field position due to TOs and special teams.

Once a team doesn't turn it over against us and forces us to go the length of the field more often we were going to be in trouble. That's a part of what played out here. The last couple picks I'm not going to blast Petras for too much cause game was already long over and that was pretty much desperation mode. But his overall play and lack of getting rid of the ball to avoid sacks just kills an offense. Since he has little pocket mobility/awareness (Stanley was significantly better at it and I don't think anyone woulda called him great at it) it just puts us in a box. He has to have a clean pocket with 1st or 2nd read be open on time for him to even have much of a chance at making a positive play happen. We all know football doesn't work that way a lot of the time. I know the Oline sucks. They hardly even slowed down their Dline some of the time. But that's where BF comes in. He's got to be smarter with how he calls a game knowing that. It's on him to help hide a limited upside QB and get the most out of him.

I imagine there's going to be a lot of tinkering goin on during this bye week. At least I hope so. I know we aren't changing Qbs. For those wishing for that I really hope you're wrong. Because our backups from what little we've seen aren't remotely ready. (which is unfortunate and another topic all together) You'd think with 2 other QBs that have been in the program for multiple seasons now that wouldn't be the case. But it is. So it's ride or die with Petras and BF. Hopefully they can find a way to get us on track. Wisky for as bad as they've looked we sure as hell can't look at them (or most games we have left) as a gimmie.

Dude, Tom Brady would suck with this offensive line. When a QB gets time, they usually perform quite well. If you watch any game, when Petras has the time he can drop dimes. The problem is he is not getting necessary time about 75% of the time
 

Knight78

Well-Known Member
I don’t dispute that. If the OL is struggling, why play an inaccurate QB with no ability to scramble?

Apparently you believe that the inaccuracy is not due to the OLine struggling. I point to the times where he DOES get the time and he is very good at hitting the receiver. And I also point to what appears to be an anemic running game that is directly affected by the OLine struggling (and the ineffective passing game).
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
It is beyond silly that we are trying to “hide” our QB. Our coaches ask more from our QB’s than most teams. The biggest “hide” is our O line for right now. I hope for improvement along with all Hawk fans.
 
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