Trust me folks, it can get a lot worse

[tm3308]

No, actually the decision to keep Ferentz will be based on pure economics. The football program feeds the entire athletic program. When donations go down and season ticket sales trend the other way, Ferentz will be in trouble. That is a simple fact. You know that is true. Until that happens, he will be the head coach.

Yes, of course it may get worse the next two years. We may having a losing season this year and there may be more losing seasons. I still believe in this coaching staff. They know how to develop players and they know how to win. There are a number of quality young players on this team. The coaching staff follows the rules. A very high percentage of our players graduate. Our coaches and our players give back to the community. There is a lot to be proud of.

If you are going to be negative, I certainly have an equal right to point out the positives.

I sat behind several sets of parents at the Michigan State game (parents of several prominent players). We discussed the coaching staff and how those parents perceived the coaches. Here is what they said:

1. The coaches are excellent people who care about the players. They stress the right values and they are fair.
2. Their kids are happy they play for Iowa. They are learning values that carry over into life after football.
3. The coaches care about academics and are doing everything they can to help their kids get degrees.
4. The team believes in these coaches and believes that they can win. There is a winning attitude on this team.
5. The coaches teach the kids to give back; to give back to their teammates; their community; and to their parents. There is character and integrity on this team.

I have 100% confidence in Kirk and this staff. Iowa football is in very capable hands.

You make the statement that nothing positive has happened since the 2010 MSU game. I respectfully disagree:

1. We defeated #12 Missouri in the Insight Bowl.
2. We defeated Pitt after being down 24-3.
3. We defeated the Sugar Bowl Champions (Michigan)
4. We defeated Michigan State this year on the road at their homecoming. Michigan State was the pre-season favorite to win the Big 10.


Is anyone satisfied with 4-4? Of course not. But if you are only going to talk about the negatives, I have every right to discuss the positives.

I should have been clearer. As an outsider who's opinion doesn't matter one way or another, the decision as to whether you want Ferentz to stay or not should be based on whether things are going to get better. Barta's guidelines are much more simple, and we all know it: If the money's still there, Ferentz isn't going anywhere. That's a fact.

But we aren't the businessmen in that equation, and our jobs don't depend on the monetary success of the athletic department.

Like I said, I'm fine with someone supporting Ferentz (I'm on the fence). But the things you're telling me now are much different then the "I was there in '73" anecdote. Those types of anecdotes are absolute crap when it comes to a discussion like this. What you laid out here is much better.

I see positives in the program, too. I like a lot of what Ferentz has done and still does. But I also place value in on-field success, because Iowa sports are a form of entertainment. It's not entertaining to see the team play this way, no more than it was to see Lick's basketball teams. And that change to Fran has worked out pretty brilliantly.

Do I expect a win at all costs attitude? No. But you act as though that's the only way to have more success than what Ferentz has over the past 8 years. That's simply not the case. Bill Snyder isn't Nick Saban, but sometimes you wouldn't know it if you only looked at what's on the field.

 

[tm3308]

Ferentz can coach, but you have a short memory.

Bill Snyder coached at Iowa. He would have taken the Iowa job at one time, but when he took the KSU job, Hayden Fry was our coach.

I don't think he was suggesting that we should have made Snyder the coach and bumped out Fry earlier. But KSU has almost the exact same situation as Iowa does in terms of location, recruiting, etc. And KSU was quite possibly the WORST program in college football for decades. Snyder turned them into national contenders, then left. The program sunk back to mediocrity, at best, and now he's come back and they are national contenders again.

 

[HawkfaninWA]

Wow. You sound like a Nebraska fan. I guess it all boils down to your definition of a good year. Here is my definition:

2002 11-2 Big Ten co-champs
2003 10-3 Outback Bowl champs
2004 10-2 Big Ten co-champs
2008 9-4; defeated then #2 Penn State; Outback Bowl champs.
2009 11-2; defeated #5 Penn State; Big Ten runnerup; Orange Bowl champs
2010 8-5; beat then #6 MSU; defeated then ranked Michigan on the road; defeated a ranked Penn State at home; defeated #12 Missouri

My expectations are lower than yours, to be sure. I sat through 20 consecutive losing seasons of Iowa football. We were the worst college football program in the country. A bowl game, any bowl game, is my definition of a good season. I'm as frustrated as anyone about this season, but this staff has recruited well the past 2 years and I believe the future is bright.

Also, for what it is worth, Iowa still has a lot to play for this year. I wouldn't give up on this season just yet.....

Good luck with this.

 

[BigD]

I actually expect to see improvement next year and even more significant improvement the year "2014" after that. If for some reason I am wrong and we bottom out the rest of this year and don't see much improvement in 2013 and 2014 then KF will be, and justifiably so, let go. There will be a coaching change by 2015 if this continues on into the next two seasons. I however don't think that will be the case as recruiting has picked up and the players will get better or at least I hope they will.

 

[kmurp]

I know this has been a tough season. A gut-wrenching loss to the Clowns, and then the inexplicable disaster against CMU. The crappy performance against Penn State. But, there have been highlights: 4th quarter rallies and wins against a good NIU team and a tough MSU team at their homecoming. The blowout of the hated Gophers. 4-4 isn't great, but........

Remember 1973? I do. Frank Lauterbur was the coach and expectations were high. Fans thought he had recruited well. We were competitive in 1972. 1973? 0 wins, 11 losses. A complete disaster. In the last game, against MSU at home, there weren't 20,000 people in the stands (I was there). Trust me, we are light years better now than we were then. That was the absolute bottom of the barrel for Iowa football. The worst team ever.

I thought the bottom was when the students cheered when Bob Commings Jr got hurt. Cheering when your own QB gets hurt is low.

 

[shettler]

Trust me, folks, it can get a lot BETTER! Forest Evashevski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia We were national champs before. Why can't we be again?

 

[BILLBUCKNER]

Wow ,some of you guys here seem to be just happy that Kirk stays at lil ol IOWA to grace us with his presence on the sidelines chewing gum. There is no reason given the resources we have to not be a consistent top 25 team with a run once in the while for bigger things like top 10 finishes. Seems your expectations are just to field a team so you can go tailgate at Kinnick.

 

[PJHawk]

I think Old Man Miller should delete any and all of these time honored football threads referring to the "bad old days" of Iowa football. That era is ancient history and NO ONE CARES anymore. BTW I also personally hated this thread before I even read it just based on the fact it had "Folks" in the title. After being on JD's sites for 12 or so years you can be assured that any "Folks" thread will include some condescending lecture instructing the rest of us how we should think about the current state of the program.

 

[Scorpio79]

I think Old Man Miller should delete any and all of these time honored football threads referring to the "bad old days" of Iowa football. That era is ancient history and NO ONE CARES anymore. BTW I also personally hated this thread before I even read it just based on the fact it had "Folks" in the title. After being on JD's sites for 12 or so years you can be assured that any "Folks" thread will include some condescending lecture instructing the rest of us how we should think about the current state of the program.

Folks, listen to PJ. He has been on Le Diesel's webernetz since moar than a decade ago.

 

[TChawk]

Ferentz is not a loser. Not in his personal life; not in his profession; not on the field. As far as I'm concerned, I'll take a 6-6 or 7-5 season doing it the right way over the Ohio States and Penn States of the world, where only winning matters. Frankly, we have been far from crap the past 3 years. No one is happy with 7-5 or 6-6 seasons, or worse. But I think Iowa football fans are a bunch of spoiled brats now. Heck, the season isn't even over yet and everyone has thrown in the towel. I don't get it.

Then you would be a great ISU fan, they are always happy with those 6-6 and 7-5 seasons.

 

[oroko]

I don't think he was suggesting that we should have made Snyder the coach and bumped out Fry earlier. But KSU has almost the exact same situation as Iowa does in terms of location, recruiting, etc. And KSU was the WORST program in college football for decades. Snyder turned them into national contenders, then left. The program sunk back to mediocrity, at best, and now he's come back and they are national contenders again.

FIFY

 

[whammer33024]

I think Old Man Miller should delete any and all of these time honored football threads referring to the "bad old days" of Iowa football. That era is ancient history and NO ONE CARES anymore. BTW I also personally hated this thread before I even read it just based on the fact it had "Folks" in the title. After being on JD's sites for 12 or so years you can be assured that any "Folks" thread will include some condescending lecture instructing the rest of us how we should think about the current state of the program.

yeah because the threads that don't include "folks" in the title don't include some condescending lecture instructing the rest of us how we should think about the current state of the program. but you don't complain about those...just the ones that don't agree with your viewpoint

 

[SpiderRico]

I am so sick and freaking tired of hearing how much worse things could be. If someone isn't bringing up Alford/Lickliter to back up their point they're bringing up the 20 non-winning seasons that happened 35 ******* years ago. Do you old timers not have any sense about how much things have changed over the last 35 years?

It's such a defeatist attitude to have and as far as I'm concerned, only losers think this way.

How about instead of saying "It can get a lot worse", start saying "It can get a lot better". You know how I know it can get better? Because it HAS been better. During the majority of Fry's tenure we were the 3rd best team in the conference behind the perenial top dogs of Mich and OSU. Who do you think broke those two schools' stranglehold on the conference title and Rose Bowls? That's right, it was Iowa. Before Ferentz, we went to Rose Bowls. Before Ferentz we were ranked #1. Before Ferentz we were a team that few wanted to play. And you know what, it'll be that way after Ferentz, too. When you have Top 15 revenue and pay your coach Top 10 money and have the facilities and fan following we do, you don't just go into the fetal position with your thumb in your mouth just because you lose a coach.

If we want to try to get to the big boy table, you can't assume the worst......you have to expect the BEST!

 

[FreedComanche]

I am so sick and freaking tired of hearing how much worse things could be. If someone isn't bringing up Alford/Lickliter to back up their point they're bringing up the 20 non-winning seasons that happened 35 ******* years ago. Do you old timers not have any sense about how much things have changed over the last 35 years?

It's such a defeatist attitude to have and as far as I'm concerned, only losers think this way.

How about instead of saying "It can get a lot worse", start saying "It can get a lot better". You know how I know it can get better? Because it HAS been better. During the majority of Fry's tenure we were the 3rd best team in the conference behind the perenial top dogs of Mich and OSU. Who do you think broke those two schools' stranglehold on the conference title and Rose Bowls? That's right, it was Iowa. Before Ferentz, we went to Rose Bowls. Before Ferentz we were ranked #1. Before Ferentz we were a team that few wanted to play. And you know what, it'll be that way after Ferentz, too. When you have Top 15 revenue and pay your coach Top 10 money and have the facilities and fan following we do, you don't just go into the fetal position with your thumb in your mouth just because you lose a coach.

If we want to try to get to the big boy table, you can't assume the worst......you have to expect the BEST!

Spider, if you were a girl I'd give you a kiss for writing this post.

FreedComanche

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Ferentz is not a loser. Not in his personal life; not in his profession; not on the field. As far as I'm concerned, I'll take a 6-6 or 7-5 season doing it the right way over the Ohio States and Penn States of the world, where only winning matters. Frankly, we have been far from crap the past 3 years. No one is happy with 7-5 or 6-6 seasons, or worse. But I think Iowa football fans are a bunch of spoiled brats now. Heck, the season isn't even over yet and everyone has thrown in the towel. I don't get it.

It's up to you to feel however you want, if that's your perspective. Personally, I'd be more than willing to be "like Ohio State" and win 10+ games every year at the expense of the occasional slap on the wrist. I'm a football fan first and foremost - I watch the Hawks to see them win, not because we have good "kids", our players all graduate, our coach is a nice guy, etc. To take a bit of Kirk's advice - "It's just a game" and I don't take things that seriously. But I guess I don't fit the mold..

6-6 and 7-5.. Ugh. Completely irrelevant, and frustrating to watch crap like that when you are losing to the likes of Central Michigan, Minnesota, etc.

Don't misunderstand that to mean that I'm asking for the Hawks to go 10-2 or 11-1 every year, but 7-5 isn't cutting it. That's only 1 win removed from not even having a winning record! I don't get how some people are content with that.

For the record, I was perfectly happy with the 9-3 and 9-2 regular seasons in 2003 & 2004.. I don't expect perfection. I'd just like Iowa to be a Top 25 program. Most of the time since 2004, it has NOT been (unless you count preseason polls, but most years have seen a final result of an unranked team).

 

[okeefe4prez]

Wow. You sound like a Nebraska fan. I guess it all boils down to your definition of a good year. Here is my definition:

2002 11-2 Big Ten co-champs
2003 10-3 Outback Bowl champs
2004 10-2 Big Ten co-champs
2008 9-4; defeated then #2 Penn State; Outback Bowl champs.
2009 11-2; defeated #5 Penn State; Big Ten runnerup; Orange Bowl champs
2010 8-5; beat then #6 MSU; defeated then ranked Michigan on the road; defeated a ranked Penn State at home; defeated #12 Missouri

My expectations are lower than yours, to be sure. I sat through 20 consecutive losing seasons of Iowa football. We were the worst college football program in the country. A bowl game, any bowl game, is my definition of a good season. I'm as frustrated as anyone about this season, but this staff has recruited well the past 2 years and I believe the future is bright.

Also, for what it is worth, Iowa still has a lot to play for this year. I wouldn't give up on this season just yet.....

When you have a 4 or 5 loss season and you start listing the rankings of the team you beat, your program is already on its way to becoming Northwestern or Iowa State. The absolute high point in those respective programs in prolly the last 10 years was NU beating that 2009 Iowa team and ISU beating the 2011 Okie State team.

We will be the Colorado Buffs in 5 years - their program tanked the minute they started playing Nebraska on Black Friday because God intended college football to be played on Saturday.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I am so sick and freaking tired of hearing how much worse things could be. If someone isn't bringing up Alford/Lickliter to back up their point they're bringing up the 20 non-winning seasons that happened 35 ******* years ago. Do you old timers not have any sense about how much things have changed over the last 35 years?

It's such a defeatist attitude to have and as far as I'm concerned, only losers think this way.

How about instead of saying "It can get a lot worse", start saying "It can get a lot better". You know how I know it can get better? Because it HAS been better. During the majority of Fry's tenure we were the 3rd best team in the conference behind the perenial top dogs of Mich and OSU. Who do you think broke those two schools' stranglehold on the conference title and Rose Bowls? That's right, it was Iowa. Before Ferentz, we went to Rose Bowls. Before Ferentz we were ranked #1. Before Ferentz we were a team that few wanted to play. And you know what, it'll be that way after Ferentz, too. When you have Top 15 revenue and pay your coach Top 10 money and have the facilities and fan following we do, you don't just go into the fetal position with your thumb in your mouth just because you lose a coach.

If we want to try to get to the big boy table, you can't assume the worst......you have to expect the BEST!

Expecting the best is precisely what leads our delusional fanbase to melt down after the annual loss to Northwestern and/or Iowa State. Anyone who has actually watched Iowa football for at least 25 years knows that we will NEVER win 3 or 4 big games in the same season. Teams like Iowa, Wisconsin and Michigan State get their one to three times a decade of flirting with greatness, but at the end of the day, those programs are all second tier programs and they always will be.

 

[hawkforlife9]

So it's OK we suck?

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Expecting the best is precisely what leads our delusional fanbase to melt down after the annual loss to Northwestern and/or Iowa State. Anyone who has actually watched Iowa football for at least 25 years knows that we will NEVER win 3 or 4 big games in the same season. Teams like Iowa, Wisconsin and Michigan State get their one to three times a decade of flirting with greatness, but at the end of the day, those programs are all second tier programs and they always will be.

I don't know what your definition of "2nd tier is", but I would say Iowa is not even at that point right now.

To me, 2nd tier means a Top 25 program but not one of the powerhouses that are in the running for the BCS title game every year - that is the FIRST tier. Iowa is certainly at least a couple tiers below that, considering our teams are almost always unranked at the end of every season.

 

[ssckelley]

Wow. You sound like a Nebraska fan. I guess it all boils down to your definition of a good year. Here is my definition:

2002 11-2 Big Ten co-champs
2003 10-3 Outback Bowl champs
2004 10-2 Big Ten co-champs
2008 9-4; defeated then #2 Penn State; Outback Bowl champs.
2009 11-2; defeated #5 Penn State; Big Ten runnerup; Orange Bowl champs
2010 8-5; beat then #6 MSU; defeated then ranked Michigan on the road; defeated a ranked Penn State at home; defeated #12 Missouri

My expectations are lower than yours, to be sure. I sat through 20 consecutive losing seasons of Iowa football. We were the worst college football program in the country. A bowl game, any bowl game, is my definition of a good season. I'm as frustrated as anyone about this season, but this staff has recruited well the past 2 years and I believe the future is bright.

Also, for what it is worth, Iowa still has a lot to play for this year. I wouldn't give up on this season just yet.....

I agree with most of this, but 2010 was a major disappointment with all the talent they had on that team. That team should have been in the Rose Bowl but the coaches screwed it up.