Trust me folks, it can get a lot worse

ChosenChildren

ChosenChildren

Well-Known Member
I know this has been a tough season. A gut-wrenching loss to the Clowns, and then the inexplicable disaster against CMU. The crappy performance against Penn State. But, there have been highlights: 4th quarter rallies and wins against a good NIU team and a tough MSU team at their homecoming. The blowout of the hated Gophers. 4-4 isn't great, but........

Remember 1973? I do. Frank Lauterbur was the coach and expectations were high. Fans thought he had recruited well. We were competitive in 1972. 1973? 0 wins, 11 losses. A complete disaster. In the last game, against MSU at home, there weren't 20,000 people in the stands (I was there). Trust me, we are light years better now than we were then. That was the absolute bottom of the barrel for Iowa football. The worst team ever.
 
yeah it could be alot worse... could be better.. could be the same

could be this could be that...

could be a lot of things.
 
tm3308 said:
I'll never understand this logic.
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I know you don't. I've heard you make the same point over and over again.

Let me ask you a simple question: Are you in sales? Have you ever had a great year, followed by a so-so year? Have you ever had a profitable year in your business, followed by a year in which you took a loss? Lawyers lose cases. Doctors lose patients.Does anyone have "winning" seasons every year in their personal lives?

I'm not really trying to defend Ferentz, but he has had some awfully good years at Iowa, followed by "average" years. Why are you so convinced that he can't have a big season again? Did he get stupid overnight? Did the game pass him by?

It doesn't make sense
 
I made the same point about how brutal the 70's were to be an Iowa football fan in another thread. We would have been elated to be 4 and 4 at this point in the season. I know there will be better days ahead and sometimes you have to learn a little humility. Michigan, Nebraska, and Notre Dame have all experienced some humbling seasons of late. Auburn learning it this year.

Tom Davis era was far better than the Alford and Lickliter eras, but he was forced out and proved at Drake he was still a solid coach. The grass isn't always greener with new sod.
 
eyekwah said:
I made the same point about how brutal the 70's were to be an Iowa football fan in another thread. We would have been elated to be 4 and 4 at this point in the season. I know there will be better days ahead and sometimes you have to learn a little humility. Michigan, Nebraska, and Notre Dame have all experienced some humbling seasons of late. Auburn learning it this year.

Tom Davis era was far better than the Alford and Lickliter eras, but he was forced out and proved at Drake he was still a solid coach. The grass isn't always greener with new sod.
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Thank you sir. A reasonable voice in this sea of negativity. Ferentz hasn't lost his will to win; we were at the MSU game and I never saw a happier coach. Iowa will rise again under Kirk. It won't happen this year, but it will happen.
 
ChosenChildren said:
I know you don't. I've heard you make the same point over and over again.

Let me ask you a simple question: Are you in sales? Have you ever had a great year, followed by a so-so year? Have you ever had a profitable year in your business, followed by a year in which you took a loss? Lawyers lose cases. Doctors lose patients.Does anyone have "winning" seasons every year in their personal lives?

I'm not really trying to defend Ferentz, but he has had some awfully good years at Iowa, followed by "average" years. Why are you so convinced that he can't have a big season again? Did he get stupid overnight? Did the game pass him by?

It doesn't make sense
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Kurt has had probably 3 "Awfully good years" at Iowa. He's had a lot of average years, and he's had three bad years out of the last three. The overall trend is downward. I'm still behind him and the team, but my tolerance for the 7-5 seasons (and we're not going to get there this year) is getting lower.
 
ChosenChildren said:
I know you don't. I've heard you make the same point over and over again.

Let me ask you a simple question: Are you in sales? Have you ever had a great year, followed by a so-so year? Have you ever had a profitable year in your business, followed by a year in which you took a loss? Lawyers lose cases. Doctors lose patients.Does anyone have "winning" seasons every year in their personal lives?

I'm not really trying to defend Ferentz, but he has had some awfully good years at Iowa, followed by "average" years. Why are you so convinced that he can't have a big season again? Did he get stupid overnight? Did the game pass him by?

It doesn't make sense
Click to expand...

Show me a good loser and I will show you a loser.


Everyone understands that crap happens, but accepting it is not a good way to try to prevent it in the future.
 
"I'll never understand this logic."

Here, I'll help you:

Consistency, validity, soundness, and completeness

Among the important properties that logical systems can have:


  • Consistency, which means that no theorem of the system contradicts another.
  • Validity, which means that the system's rules of proof will never allow a false inference from true premises. A logical system has the property of soundness when the logical system has the property of validity and uses only premises that prove true (or, in the case of axioms, are true by definition).
  • Completeness, of a logical system, which means that if a formula is true, it can be proven (if it is true, it is a theorem of the system).
  • Soundness, the term soundness has multiple separate meanings, which creates a bit of confusion throughout the literature. Most commonly, soundness refers to logical systems, which means that if some formula can be proven in a system, then it is true in the relevant model/structure (if A is a theorem, it is true). This is the converse of completeness. A distinct, peripheral use of soundness refers to arguments, which means that the premises of a valid argument are true in the actual world.
Some logical systems do not have all four properties. As an example, Kurt Gödel's incompleteness theorems show that sufficiently complex formal systems of arithmetic cannot be consistent and complete;however, first-order predicate logics not extended by specific axioms to be arithmetic formal systems with equality can be complete and consistent.
 
DwayneTwill said:
Kurt has had probably 3 "Awfully good years" at Iowa. He's had a lot of average years, and he's had three bad years out of the last three. The overall trend is downward. I'm still behind him and the team, but my tolerance for the 7-5 seasons (and we're not going to get there this year) is getting lower.
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Wow. You sound like a Nebraska fan. I guess it all boils down to your definition of a good year. Here is my definition:

2002 11-2 Big Ten co-champs
2003 10-3 Outback Bowl champs
2004 10-2 Big Ten co-champs
2008 9-4; defeated then #2 Penn State; Outback Bowl champs.
2009 11-2; defeated #5 Penn State; Big Ten runnerup; Orange Bowl champs
2010 8-5; beat then #6 MSU; defeated then ranked Michigan on the road; defeated a ranked Penn State at home; defeated #12 Missouri

My expectations are lower than yours, to be sure. I sat through 20 consecutive losing seasons of Iowa football. We were the worst college football program in the country. A bowl game, any bowl game, is my definition of a good season. I'm as frustrated as anyone about this season, but this staff has recruited well the past 2 years and I believe the future is bright.

Also, for what it is worth, Iowa still has a lot to play for this year. I wouldn't give up on this season just yet.....
 
The fact that the OP compares this season to '73 is a powerful testament to the current state of the program.
 
theboat said:
Show me a good loser and I will show you a loser.


Everyone understands that crap happens, but accepting it is not a good way to try to prevent it in the future.
Click to expand...

Ferentz is not a loser. Not in his personal life; not in his profession; not on the field. As far as I'm concerned, I'll take a 6-6 or 7-5 season doing it the right way over the Ohio States and Penn States of the world, where only winning matters. Frankly, we have been far from crap the past 3 years. No one is happy with 7-5 or 6-6 seasons, or worse. But I think Iowa football fans are a bunch of spoiled brats now. Heck, the season isn't even over yet and everyone has thrown in the towel. I don't get it.
 
I knew for a fact that this would be someone talking about how old they are and I knew that I wouldn't care.
 
eyekwah said:
"I'll never understand this logic."

Here, I'll help you:

Consistency, validity, soundness, and completeness

Among the important properties that logical systems can have:


  • Consistency, which means that no theorem of the system contradicts another.
  • Validity, which means that the system's rules of proof will never allow a false inference from true premises. A logical system has the property of soundness when the logical system has the property of validity and uses only premises that prove true (or, in the case of axioms, are true by definition).
  • Completeness, of a logical system, which means that if a formula is true, it can be proven (if it is true, it is a theorem of the system).
  • Soundness, the term soundness has multiple separate meanings, which creates a bit of confusion throughout the literature. Most commonly, soundness refers to logical systems, which means that if some formula can be proven in a system, then it is true in the relevant model/structure (if A is a theorem, it is true). This is the converse of completeness. A distinct, peripheral use of soundness refers to arguments, which means that the premises of a valid argument are true in the actual world.
Some logical systems do not have all four properties. As an example, Kurt Gödel's incompleteness theorems show that sufficiently complex formal systems of arithmetic cannot be consistent and complete;however, first-order predicate logics not extended by specific axioms to be arithmetic formal systems with equality can be complete and consistent.
Click to expand...

I'm impressed. I'm guessing you teach for a living.
 
ChosenChildren said:
Ferentz is not a loser. Not in his personal life; not in his profession; not on the field. As far as I'm concerned, I'll take a 6-6 or 7-5 season doing it the right way over the Ohio States and Penn States of the world, where only winning matters. Frankly, we have been far from crap the past 3 years. No one is happy with 7-5 or 6-6 seasons, or worse. But I think Iowa football fans are a bunch of spoiled brats now. Heck, the season isn't even over yet and everyone has thrown in the towel. I don't get it.
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I think you may be generalizing a little bit (a lot) here. I'll never give up on the Hawks, and as a matter of fact, I still have vivid positive memories of the Hawks' last drive against Minnesota in 1999, trying to pull a big upset for their first Big Ten win. They lost to go to 1-10, but showed more innovation and signs of life in doing so than we've seen out of the program since that 2010 Michigan State game. Something happened after that week. It's not about the wins and losses for me, but how much fight the Hawks are showing. Hasn't been much lately.
 
The coach of our team is getting paid TOP 5 money in the country. KF has succeeded in lowering expectations to the point that we are an underdog to one of the worst teams in the league..just deal with it..that's football. That is not getting the job done. And don't give me the crap his salary has nothing to do with anything. If it wasn't ,then why the hell are we paying him this kind of money.
 
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