Trump supporters, how do you square this?

Vance was such a strong man attacking Zelensky while he was surrounded by tRUMP's minions in
the Oval Office

Ran away like a little girl when confronted by protesters in Vermont

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Photos from the New York Post show what the Sissy Man faced on the streets of the Ski Resort

The New York Post is a maga rag that folk use for toilet paper
 
I just pray we continue to allow Putin to kill civilians and take whatever land he wants, then negotiate "peace" by letting him keep his stolen land and pay nothing for his murders. That's the proper way to do things right??
 
Right now, this is some significant activity that US media is completely ignoring: Reuters reports on numerous options, including a cease fire, to get Russia to the table with Zelensky. Close as I could tell, it’s all of NATO minus the US running the show. You can read it for free on Reuters.
 
Between 2014 and 2022, Ukraine held 200 talks with Russia, reaching 20 cease-fire agreements.

Russia violated all of these, leading to Putin's invasion on 2/25/2022.

Those advocating for negotiations are either uninformed, misled or aligned with Russia.
 
Gibsonian said:
I just pray we continue to allow Putin to kill civilians and take whatever land he wants, then negotiate "peace" by letting him keep his stolen land and pay nothing for his murders. That's the proper way to do things right??
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Most people with a brain see this as a sarcastic comment to poke fun at the other side . But Fry will be here shortly to waste a lot of time making an overly long weird post that isn't even relevant to the post he quoted, saying how he doesn't care about your opinion and won't waste his time. Just an insufferable tool.
 
Hay Man said:
Between 2014 and 2022, Ukraine held 200 talks with Russia, reaching 20 cease-fire agreements.

Russia violated all of these, leading to Putin's invasion on 2/25/2022.

Those advocating for negotiations are either uninformed, misled or aligned with Russia.
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Those advocating for negotiations are trying to avoid WW3. And just so you know, Obama was saying in 2014 what the people are saying today and being accused of falling for Russian disinformation.
 
Anyone want to make a list of all of US wars after WW2 that weren't pointless in hindsight? Obviously there will be some differing opinions on that. My opinion is American and the countries involved would have been better off or the same had we not gotten involved in every war since WW2. I'm not hard set on that opinion. But for the most part, it seems like we go places, spend a bunch of money, kill a bunch of people, and then leave with nothing changing. It's the same plan over and over. The only thing that has changed is which political party is pro war and which one is pro peace.
 
PCHawk said:
Anyone want to make a list of all of US wars after WW2 that weren't pointless in hindsight? Obviously there will be some differing opinions on that. My opinion is American and the countries involved would have been better off or the same had we not gotten involved in every war since WW2. I'm not hard set on that opinion. But for the most part, it seems like we go places, spend a bunch of money, kill a bunch of people, and then leave with nothing changing. It's the same plan over and over. The only thing that has changed is which political party is pro war and which one is pro peace.
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I think that is mostly correct (I am far from an expert on geopolitics). This feels a bit different because it is not just USSR trying to set up a puppet government in some global outpost (and us reacting by trying to set up our own puppet government). Rather, this is Russia violating the sovereign territory of a young democracy. Admittedly, it has been a troubled democracy in its relatively short history (self-governing is messy), but that still seems like the sort of thing the democratic west needs to respond to. And like it or not, the US is (was) the leader of the democratic west.

I don't think this is a situation where Trump just doesn't think involvement in the conflict is worth our time. He pretty clearly feels more aligned with powerful autocrats than with typical liberal democracy. There are many who believe that liberal democracy, and our willingness to fight for that ideal, is truly central to who we are as a country (right along with personal liberty and capitalism). Trump does not think that.

@Fryowa pointed out awhile back that the experiment that is the USA was never going to last forever. Empires come and go, though they seem permanent within the short expanse of history that we each live within. Maybe this is the beginning of the end. Or maybe Trump overplays his hand, everyone gets pissed off because things seem to be getting worse, and the pendulum swings once again in 2028.
 
CP87 said:
@Fryowa pointed out awhile back that the experiment that is the USA was never going to last forever. Empires comes and go, though they seem permanent within the short expanse of history that we each live within. Maybe this is the beginning of the end. Or maybe Trump overplays his hand, everyone gets pissed off because things seem to be getting worse, and the pendulum swings once again in 2028.
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6 months ago I'd have said we have 50-60 years left minimum. I'm definitely questioning that now with what Trump is doing with Ukraine (arguing like a 3rd grader in the White House, as the "leader of the free world" humiliating a vulnerable country beg for help and asking them to kiss his ring). Trump actually had a golden opportunity to strengthen the allied front in Europe, strengthen the position of the US in the region, and send Putin packing while adding a mutual benefit of mineral resources in a deal that would've been good for the goose and the gander but he totally blew it like the uneducated codger he is.

I don't care what anyone says, the US for the past 150 years has been the country that the vulnerable people of the world have always known they could turn to for help but that's over. It took all of 15 minutes to totally destroy everything the US (Democratic or Republic) has built up to this point. That's not hyperbole. If we secede from NATO we are going to be on an island that we can't survive on. Isolationists are going to get their wish and they have no idea the ramifications of something like this. Short-sighted, myopic loonies.

I'm dead serious when I say this...I could easily see in the next couple of years Europe finally joining forces and this being what pushes them to the brink of becoming the superpower that the US used to be. If they can get China to side with them it's over, because the one thing China wants more than anything in the world is for the US to shrivel away and that's finally happening. What Europe/China have needed all along was something to unite them and finally get on board with each other to finally get out from underneath US influence, and Trump has handed that "something" to them on a silver platter. I don't know if this is something that a new administration can undo 5 years from now, but I highly doubt it.

Turn off the lights, folks. Party's over. I ain't mad about it, I've got about 30 years left above ground and it is what it is. I'd love to have grandkids some day but I really don't think it'd be a bad thing now if I don't. I don't think the world is going to be all that rosy for them.
 
CP87 said:
I think that is mostly correct (I am far from an expert on geopolitics).
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War is bad. War for dubious reasosns is double bad.

However, the people complaining about our huge military presence are very, very misguided. Just the fact that the US has a global reach and firepower greater than all other countries combined has been what's kept WW3 from breaking out. Bad actors to this point knew that if they got crazy theyd get a shit storm rained down on them with no equal so it's kept them in check. Russia, China, etc. don't do the things they want to do because of the size and scope of our military. Now that we're being made global pariahs, that's all going to change in short order.
 
CP87 said:
Rather, this is Russia violating the sovereign territory of a young democracy. Admittedly, it has been a troubled democracy in its relatively short history (self-governing is messy)...
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Not sure how you can call Russia a democracy.

I mean, I can shit in my hand and call it a cheeseburger if I want, but that doesn't make it a cheeseburger in any sense of the word. Hard to call that country a democracy until they do anything resembling a democracy...

Edited due to misunderstanding the post I was replying to.
 
Fryowa said:
Not sure how you can call Russia a democracy.

I mean, I can shit in my hand and call it a cheeseburger if I want, but that doesn't make it a cheeseburger in any sense of the word. Hard to call that country a democracy until they do anything resembling a democracy...
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I am saying Ukraine is a democracy...sorry if unclear. They have had their problems with corruption, but they have been remaining strong as an independent democracy.
 
Fryowa said:
Not sure how you can call Russia a democracy.

I mean, I can shit in my hand and call it a cheeseburger if I want, but that doesn't make it a cheeseburger in any sense of the word. Hard to call that country a democracy until they do anything resembling a democracy...

Edited due to misunderstanding the post I was replying to.
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This is what I'm talking about. You seriously have to have the worst reading comprehension on this site. You talk about reading really complicated books and then misread the post you quoted so bad you think he called Russia a democracy. Holy shit you suck.
 
CP87 said:
I am saying Ukraine is a democracy...sorry if unclear. They have had their problems with corruption, but they have been remaining strong as an independent democracy.
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You were perfectly clear. A 10 year old comprehends better than he does.
 
Does anyone remember when Biden yelled at zelensky for not being grateful enough? Back then the story was he did it because America's support of Ukraine was waining and zelensky coming off as ungrateful was a bad look for trying to keep American support. Of course when Trump does the exact same thing.....
 
Biden did yell at Zelensky....on the phone and not in front of a camera and the entire world. I think we've all been yelled at at some point in our lives, but being yelled at in front of everyone and told to kiss the ring is a lot more humiliating.
 
CP87 said:
I think that is mostly correct (I am far from an expert on geopolitics). This feels a bit different because it is not just USSR trying to set up a puppet government in some global outpost (and us reacting by trying to set up our own puppet government). Rather, this is Russia violating the sovereign territory of a young democracy. Admittedly, it has been a troubled democracy in its relatively short history (self-governing is messy), but that still seems like the sort of thing the democratic west needs to respond to. And like it or not, the US is (was) the leader of the democratic west.

I don't think this is a situation where Trump just doesn't think involvement in the conflict is worth our time. He pretty clearly feels more aligned with powerful autocrats than with typical liberal democracy. There are many who believe that liberal democracy, and our willingness to fight for that ideal, is truly central to who we are as a country (right along with personal liberty and capitalism). Trump does not think that.

@Fryowa pointed out awhile back that the experiment that is the USA was never going to last forever. Empires come and go, though they seem permanent within the short expanse of history that we each live within. Maybe this is the beginning of the end. Or maybe Trump overplays his hand, everyone gets pissed off because things seem to be getting worse, and the pendulum swings once again in 2028.
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It's slightly different in the sense that we overthrew the government and helped provoke an invasion instead of the normal play of saying we need to invade to overthrow the government. With a country like Iraq, we were fine invading. This time we didn't want to fight the country we wanted the war with. We wanted a different country to fight it. This has been in motion since well before Trump's first term.
 
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