Trump supporters, how do you square this?

[thedukeofearl]

Vance was such a strong man attacking Zelensky while he was surrounded by tRUMP's minions in
the Oval Office

Ran away like a little girl when confronted by protesters in Vermont





Photos from the New York Post show what the Sissy Man faced on the streets of the Ski Resort

The New York Post is a maga rag that folk use for toilet paper

 

[Gibsonian]

I just pray we continue to allow Putin to kill civilians and take whatever land he wants, then negotiate "peace" by letting him keep his stolen land and pay nothing for his murders. That's the proper way to do things right??

 

[HuckFinn]

Right now, this is some significant activity that US media is completely ignoring: Reuters reports on numerous options, including a cease fire, to get Russia to the table with Zelensky. Close as I could tell, it’s all of NATO minus the US running the show. You can read it for free on Reuters.

 

[Hay Man]

Between 2014 and 2022, Ukraine held 200 talks with Russia, reaching 20 cease-fire agreements.

Russia violated all of these, leading to Putin's invasion on 2/25/2022.

Those advocating for negotiations are either uninformed, misled or aligned with Russia.

 

[PCHawk]

I just pray we continue to allow Putin to kill civilians and take whatever land he wants, then negotiate "peace" by letting him keep his stolen land and pay nothing for his murders. That's the proper way to do things right??

Most people with a brain see this as a sarcastic comment to poke fun at the other side . But Fry will be here shortly to waste a lot of time making an overly long weird post that isn't even relevant to the post he quoted, saying how he doesn't care about your opinion and won't waste his time. Just an insufferable tool.

 

[PCHawk]

Between 2014 and 2022, Ukraine held 200 talks with Russia, reaching 20 cease-fire agreements.

Russia violated all of these, leading to Putin's invasion on 2/25/2022.

Those advocating for negotiations are either uninformed, misled or aligned with Russia.

Those advocating for negotiations are trying to avoid WW3. And just so you know, Obama was saying in 2014 what the people are saying today and being accused of falling for Russian disinformation.

 

[PCHawk]

Anyone want to make a list of all of US wars after WW2 that weren't pointless in hindsight? Obviously there will be some differing opinions on that. My opinion is American and the countries involved would have been better off or the same had we not gotten involved in every war since WW2. I'm not hard set on that opinion. But for the most part, it seems like we go places, spend a bunch of money, kill a bunch of people, and then leave with nothing changing. It's the same plan over and over. The only thing that has changed is which political party is pro war and which one is pro peace.

 

[CP87]

Anyone want to make a list of all of US wars after WW2 that weren't pointless in hindsight? Obviously there will be some differing opinions on that. My opinion is American and the countries involved would have been better off or the same had we not gotten involved in every war since WW2. I'm not hard set on that opinion. But for the most part, it seems like we go places, spend a bunch of money, kill a bunch of people, and then leave with nothing changing. It's the same plan over and over. The only thing that has changed is which political party is pro war and which one is pro peace.

I think that is mostly correct (I am far from an expert on geopolitics). This feels a bit different because it is not just USSR trying to set up a puppet government in some global outpost (and us reacting by trying to set up our own puppet government). Rather, this is Russia violating the sovereign territory of a young democracy. Admittedly, it has been a troubled democracy in its relatively short history (self-governing is messy), but that still seems like the sort of thing the democratic west needs to respond to. And like it or not, the US is (was) the leader of the democratic west.

I don't think this is a situation where Trump just doesn't think involvement in the conflict is worth our time. He pretty clearly feels more aligned with powerful autocrats than with typical liberal democracy. There are many who believe that liberal democracy, and our willingness to fight for that ideal, is truly central to who we are as a country (right along with personal liberty and capitalism). Trump does not think that.

@Fryowa pointed out awhile back that the experiment that is the USA was never going to last forever. Empires come and go, though they seem permanent within the short expanse of history that we each live within. Maybe this is the beginning of the end. Or maybe Trump overplays his hand, everyone gets pissed off because things seem to be getting worse, and the pendulum swings once again in 2028.

 

[Fryowa]

@Fryowa pointed out awhile back that the experiment that is the USA was never going to last forever. Empires comes and go, though they seem permanent within the short expanse of history that we each live within. Maybe this is the beginning of the end. Or maybe Trump overplays his hand, everyone gets pissed off because things seem to be getting worse, and the pendulum swings once again in 2028.

6 months ago I'd have said we have 50-60 years left minimum. I'm definitely questioning that now with what Trump is doing with Ukraine (arguing like a 3rd grader in the White House, as the "leader of the free world" humiliating a vulnerable country beg for help and asking them to kiss his ring). Trump actually had a golden opportunity to strengthen the allied front in Europe, strengthen the position of the US in the region, and send Putin packing while adding a mutual benefit of mineral resources in a deal that would've been good for the goose and the gander but he totally blew it like the uneducated codger he is.

I don't care what anyone says, the US for the past 150 years has been the country that the vulnerable people of the world have always known they could turn to for help but that's over. It took all of 15 minutes to totally destroy everything the US (Democratic or Republic) has built up to this point. That's not hyperbole. If we secede from NATO we are going to be on an island that we can't survive on. Isolationists are going to get their wish and they have no idea the ramifications of something like this. Short-sighted, myopic loonies.

I'm dead serious when I say this...I could easily see in the next couple of years Europe finally joining forces and this being what pushes them to the brink of becoming the superpower that the US used to be. If they can get China to side with them it's over, because the one thing China wants more than anything in the world is for the US to shrivel away and that's finally happening. What Europe/China have needed all along was something to unite them and finally get on board with each other to finally get out from underneath US influence, and Trump has handed that "something" to them on a silver platter. I don't know if this is something that a new administration can undo 5 years from now, but I highly doubt it.

Turn off the lights, folks. Party's over. I ain't mad about it, I've got about 30 years left above ground and it is what it is. I'd love to have grandkids some day but I really don't think it'd be a bad thing now if I don't. I don't think the world is going to be all that rosy for them.

 

[Fryowa]

I think that is mostly correct (I am far from an expert on geopolitics).

War is bad. War for dubious reasosns is double bad.

However, the people complaining about our huge military presence are very, very misguided. Just the fact that the US has a global reach and firepower greater than all other countries combined has been what's kept WW3 from breaking out. Bad actors to this point knew that if they got crazy theyd get a shit storm rained down on them with no equal so it's kept them in check. Russia, China, etc. don't do the things they want to do because of the size and scope of our military. Now that we're being made global pariahs, that's all going to change in short order.

 

[Fryowa]

Rather, this is Russia violating the sovereign territory of a young democracy. Admittedly, it has been a troubled democracy in its relatively short history (self-governing is messy)...

Not sure how you can call Russia a democracy.

I mean, I can shit in my hand and call it a cheeseburger if I want, but that doesn't make it a cheeseburger in any sense of the word. Hard to call that country a democracy until they do anything resembling a democracy...

 

[Hay Man]

 

[CP87]

Not sure how you can call Russia a democracy.

I mean, I can shit in my hand and call it a cheeseburger if I want, but that doesn't make it a cheeseburger in any sense of the word. Hard to call that country a democracy until they do anything resembling a democracy...

I am saying Ukraine is a democracy...sorry if unclear. They have had their problems with corruption, but they have been remaining strong as an independent democracy.