Trump supporters, how do you square this?

justwinbaby said:
Exactly and the reason she didn’t invoke the 25th amendment and become the president this summer is because the powers behind the president knew if she had become president it would have been even more evident that she was completely incompetent.
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And you know this, how?
 
Westernhawk said:
I don't know if you're too familiar with HHS, which is a giant entity that is really complex. It houses CDC, NIH, CMS, FDA, etc. I'm not sure if you have much of a grasp of what that entails. HHS has a budget of over $130B and employs 80,000 people. It houses medical research, public health, and all of public healthcare financing. You'd damn well better know what you're talking about to lead all of that, IMHO. "know within a week" LOL.

There are so many important departments that comprise HHS. This guy might destroy them:


Not knowing what Medicare A even is, or whether or not Medicaid requires a premium is just not good, wouldn't you agree? Also, RFK is not a proven leader, either. He's literally hated by everyone in his extended family. If I were to run for office or political appointment, my family would support me if I represented either party. Something is rotten here, and it's RFK.

Would you hire the next Iowa Football coach if he is a great motivational leader, but knew nothing about the game of football? Of course not.

I'm not at all interested in getting into a back and forth with you. I've watched you do it with another poster. No thanks!
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Yup
 
kicker22 said:
There's no argument it's a dumb question, but there's a better way to answer it. There's an element of empathy and simply just being human that he ignores. California fires, immediately attacks Newsom, plane crash he immediately makes it a DEI issue. The problem isn't that he's necessarily wrong its the fact the timing is completely inappropriate. People are hurting and rather than truly sympathizing with them he's using their pain to immediately spin it into a political issue. That's the difference between him and others. He may truly care, but he can't shut up long enough for it to come across as sincere.
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This is beyond the realm of possibility
 
Will be interesting to see what comes of 2 tragic airplane crashes since Trump has not only been elected but also the moves he has or has not made to address NTBS effectiveness. Hmm. Yeah. I admit to speculation.
 
It should be noted that while it's stupid of Trump to use the plane tragedy for political points, democrats are doing the exact same thing by blaming this crash on Trump.
 
PCHawk said:
It should be noted that while it's stupid of Trump to use the plane tragedy for political points, democrats are doing the exact same thing by blaming this crash on Trump.
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Here’s the difference, if Biden or Obama were in office, they wouldn’t be blaming Trump. Has he ever taken responsibility for anything? Other than good things.
 
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kicker22 said:
There's no argument it's a dumb question, but there's a better way to answer it. There's an element of empathy and simply just being human that he ignores. California fires, immediately attacks Newsom, plane crash he immediately makes it a DEI issue. The problem isn't that he's necessarily wrong its the fact the timing is completely inappropriate. People are hurting and rather than truly sympathizing with them he's using their pain to immediately spin it into a political issue. That's the difference between him and others. He may truly care, but he can't shut up long enough for it to come across as sincere.
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Trump is a synonym for inappropriate. Blaming and insulting others is his MO. No other leader in our nearly 250 year history spent his time inventing name and slurs for so many individuals. How any normal human does not view such a morally bankrupt individual with disgust is beyond my comprehension
 
Westernhawk said:
Here's a message board experiment (if folks are willing):

Let's take a topic and discuss the pros and cons of a given policy, and do our best to avoid ad hominem attacks or conspiracy theories.

I'll start:

Trump is going to impose tariffs on imports from Canada, Mexico, and China, starting soon.

Question for the group:

- What are the potential upsides for our economy and individuals in the US, and conversely, what are the downsides?
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I see everyone just wants to bitch at each other. This was my attempt at having a policy based, civil discussion. Swing and a miss on my part.
 
PCHawk said:
I think the bigger something is, the more the point I was making matters. A small business owner needs to know everything about everything. If you're the head of something that big, it's simply impossible to know everything. I'd be curious to know how hos lack of knowledge stacks up to past nominees.

Judging by what the media says about Kennedy compared to the things he actually says, I just go into a conversation about him assuming there's a good chance the person I'm talking to is misinformed. You talking about his family confirms that to me. He has a huge family. Some agree with him and some don't. I come from a really small family and i couldn't disagree more about politics with some of them. How could anyone expect for a family that big to all agree politically. And maybe you are the type of person who would support your family member if they ran for office for the "wrong party", and so would I, but a lot of people out there disown family members over political beliefs. I think that it says more about the family members railing of RFK than it says about him.

I would not hire a football coach who knew nothing about football. Kennedy got hired to clean up corruption, which he knows a lot about. A lot of people think that step is necessary.
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This will likely be my last post directed at you, but if you have some quotes by some of the other Kennedy members supporting him, I'll gladly change my thoughts on that, and stand corrected. I have the ability to change my view based upon new information coming in, which brings me to my next point.

It's pretty pointless to argue anything factual with conspiracy theorists. It's like hitting one's head against a wall. I actually read real research papers fairly regularly, and have a pretty solid base of knowledge about how research is conducted, the effectiveness of vaccines, the real risk of vaccines, how health care is actually financed, etc. I do think it matters to have leaders that can guide the organizations they lead with an informed approach. Kennedy is a know nothing with a financial interest in tearing down the research establishment, particularly as it relates to vaccines (he has a financial stake in a lawsuit against Gardisil). Root out corruption or bringing in corruption? We shall see. The shitty deal here is that if every kid got a Gardisil shot, it would prevent 90% of cervical cancers. Dismantling the research apparatus and limiting vaccines will result in more deaths, period. It's really sad, and it honestly makes me very angry. I get that this is a game to you, and you're sparring for "your team" on the internet. Count me out. I'll go back and work in real life with real people who care about others and make a difference in this world. Enjoy fighting for people that will look very bad in 10 years.
 
Westernhawk said:
This will likely be my last post directed at you, but if you have some quotes by some of the other Kennedy members supporting him, I'll gladly change my thoughts on that, and stand corrected. I have the ability to change my view based upon new information coming in, which brings me to my next point.

It's pretty pointless to argue anything factual with conspiracy theorists. It's like hitting one's head against a wall. I actually read real research papers fairly regularly, and have a pretty solid base of knowledge about how research is conducted, the effectiveness of vaccines, the real risk of vaccines, how health care is actually financed, etc. I do think it matters to have leaders that can guide the organizations they lead with an informed approach. Kennedy is a know nothing with a financial interest in tearing down the research establishment, particularly as it relates to vaccines (he has a financial stake in a lawsuit against Gardisil). Root out corruption or bringing in corruption? We shall see. The shitty deal here is that if every kid got a Gardisil shot, it would prevent 90% of cervical cancers. Dismantling the research apparatus and limiting vaccines will result in more deaths, period. It's really sad, and it honestly makes me very angry. I get that this is a game to you, and you're sparring for "your team" on the internet. Count me out. I'll go back and work in real life with real people who care about others and make a difference in this world. Enjoy fighting for people that will look very bad in 10 years.
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I hope it's not your last post because I enjoy the back and forth and appreciate your opinion. Even tho guys like you and Hey man have different opinions than me you both seem like good enough guys.

Do I really need to find proof of family members agreeing with RFK? Of course some do and some don't. Why would their family be any different than any other family in America?

As far as conspiracy theorists go, Trump is trying to "weed out corruption". I put that in quotes because it's debatable if that's what he's really doing. But if he's really trying to do that and if he succeeds, half of the country won't believe the "new truth" and then they will become the conspiracy theorists, because history is written by the winner.

My best argument is to point to our health in this country. Clearly something is wrong, and the people in charge are doing something wrong. I don't care if it's vaccines, pesticides, or dyes in food. What I care about is the people that have been in charge have obviously been fucking up.

Tonight I watched the original Hunger Games with my kids. I couldn't help but noticed how annoyed I got watching the government control the people like they did. I've clearly got issues with government corruption, and right or wrong, that's how i got to where I am today. So many people are like me and see Trump as someone who's willing to fight government corruption. To us it's not about mean tweets, or not being "presidential". It's about someone who's trying to put a stop to the corruption. Maybe he will fail or maybe he was never really trying in the first place. But clearly more of the same isn't working. And I've said it before but I'll say it again. If you're the type of person who thinks government has our best interest at heart and nothing is wrong, I get how you don't understand my perspective.
 
One more thing on the conspiracy aspect. Ask yourself this. If Trump came out and said covid vaccines don't work, would you believe him? If Trump went after members of Biden's family for corruption in Ukraine, and then found a DA in a red state and a jury from a red state to convict them, would you believe him? If Kennedy appoints a team to investigate the FDA and they find that they were using money to influence studies, and that a lot of people made a lot of money to push through medications, food, and pesticides that weren't safe, would you believe it?

All anyone has to do is walk through their local Walmart and look around to see clearly there's a problem going on. I've personally never been over seas but two people I know have and have said the weight difference in Europe and here is obvious. But anyone who asks the question on what's happening is labeled a conspiracy theorist. No one in charge even wants to try to figure out what's causing it. If anyone would listen to what Kennedy says, they would know he doesn't say vaccines are causing it. What he says is something is going on and we need to figure out what it is. That should not be a controversial thing to say. And you certainly shouldn't be labeled a conspiracy theorist for saying it.
 
Westernhawk said:
Here's a message board experiment (if folks are willing):

Let's take a topic and discuss the pros and cons of a given policy, and do our best to avoid ad hominem attacks or conspiracy theories.

I'll start:

Trump is going to impose tariffs on imports from Canada, Mexico, and China, starting soon.

Question for the group:

- What are the potential upsides for our economy and individuals in the US, and conversely, what are the downsides?
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I like a lot of the decisions Trump has been making but I don’t know about this one and I’m honestly wondering if it’s a good idea. It’s a good question and one I would like to know the answer to so if you have an answer/opinion I would appreciate you giving it.
 
Westernhawk said:
I see everyone just wants to bitch at each other. This was my attempt at having a policy based, civil discussion. Swing and a miss on my part.
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I guess I was just too lazy to research it. Supposedly Trump did this because of illegal immigration’s and drugs flowing into the country. I think it’s a terrible idea but hopefully I’m wrong. Trump has already shutdown the southern border so illegal immigration and drug trafficking should be almost eliminated. I think we need to work with Mexico to destroy the fentanyl production that China has helped create in Mexico. This will be tricky for any leader of Mexico to facilitate because they’re likely to be executed by the cartels but I would let China and Mexico know that the drug production in Mexico will be shut down one way or another.
 
justwinbaby said:
I guess I was just too lazy to research it. Supposedly Trump did this because of illegal immigration’s and drugs flowing into the country. I think it’s a terrible idea but hopefully I’m wrong. Trump has already shutdown the southern border so illegal immigration and drug trafficking should be almost eliminated. I think we need to work with Mexico to destroy the fentanyl production that China has helped create in Mexico. This will be tricky for any leader of Mexico to facilitate because they’re likely to be executed by the cartels but I would let China and Mexico know that the drug production in Mexico will be shut down one way or another.
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Trump has already shutdown the southern border

That is a tall task
 
I just don't know enough about the tariff situation either. I see so many opinions that they're great and so many that they're terrible that I don't know what to believe.
 
It’s amazing what Trump has accomplished. He’s convinced half the country that:

1. Canada & Mexico are our enemies, and Russia & China are our friends.

2. We can’t trust our own elections.

3. Our own DOJ & FBI are THE enemy.

4. Tariffs are cool, and it’s a really good thing for Americans to pay a lot more for cars, gas, & food.

5. Black people & transgender Americans aren’t capable of being air traffic controllers.

And that’s just a start.
 
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