Trump supporters, how do you square this?

[PCHawk]

I believe he pardoned them so that Trump couldn't go after them for revenge. They didn't kiss the ring. Other than money, Trump is driven by revenge.

I don't think giving pardons for something you didn't do is a good thing, but didn't a bunch of people ask Trump for them before he left office??

If he goes after them for revenge, the court could sort it out and then they could probably sue him for it. That's assuming we still believe courts are legit. Are you saying that avoiding the inconvenience of them having to go through that process is worth the optics of what it looks like to pardon them?

I know Trump pardoned a list of people before he left office (I think every president does maybe?) but I'm not sure he pardoned people who weren't even charged with a crime yet. I do know for sure he didn't pardon himself or family members even the it was discussed a lot in the media. If he did pardon people who weren't even charged, it was equally wrong. I'd be curious to know.

 

[PCHawk]

As far as I've seen, Trump hasn't even mentioned going after Fauci. Why pardon him? Jan 6th is the biggest stain on Trump's legacy. It's behind him now. Why bring something like that back into the limelight just to make yourself look bad again? There's no way he would start down that road unless it was to uncover something that benefited him. Seeing Trump try to "get revenge" on the Jan 6th committee and having it backfire in his face is something everyone on the left should be begging for. What a crazy country we live in where one political party can spend 4 years going after their opponent and then free themselvesof any accountability.

 

[Fryowa]

What a crazy country we live in where one political party can spend 4 years going after their opponent and then free themselvesof any accountability.

Looking back on history, it's been pretty well academically-established that countries since they were a thing last about an average of 150-ish years and empires around 250 years before they are either taken over (not too likely with the US) or they implode from within (much more common and definitely what's going to happen to the US).

Thinking the US has some kind of divine providence that will last for eons is hubris. I know we all want it to continue to exist indefinitely even though we disagree on the details, but let's be honest. It ain't happening and the last 30 years is just a normal sign of the times as it has for time immemorial. This thing is just circling the toilet bowl going faster and faster at this point. Enjoy it the way it is for the time you have left because there's no chance it's permanent. To say or even hope that it will be is foolish pride.

In 50 years I'd bet my soul that the map of this part of the earth and the factions running it are going to look a whole lot different and have names we've never heard of. It's the way it is...we aren't special.

 

[Hay Man]

As far as I've seen, Trump hasn't even mentioned going after Fauci. Why pardon him? Jan 6th is the biggest stain on Trump's legacy. It's behind him now. Why bring something like that back into the limelight just to make yourself look bad again? There's no way he would start down that road unless it was to uncover something that benefited him. Seeing Trump try to "get revenge" on the Jan 6th committee and having it backfire in his face is something everyone on the left should be begging for. What a crazy country we live in where one political party can spend 4 years going after their opponent and then free themselves of any accountability.

It's not like only one party is being prosecuted. Both Democrats and Republicans have done illegal things and a vast majority of them have and never will face accountability. One of those is being sworn in as President today.

 

[Glass1/2fullguy]

I believe he pardoned them so that Trump couldn't go after them for revenge. They didn't kiss the ring. Other than money, Trump is driven by revenge.

I don't think giving pardons for something you didn't do is a good thing, but didn't a bunch of people ask Trump for them before he left office??

Let just say Trump is "driven by revenge" as you state. Our justice system would not allow someone to be charge w/ a crime on the basis of "revenge".

 

[Hay Man]

Let just say Trump is "driven by revenge" as you state. Our justice system would not allow someone to be charge w/ a crime on the basis of "revenge".

All of the Trump apologists have stated over and over again that the prosecuting that the Democrats have been doing is all fake and all of the charges were bullshit and made up. What makes you think that Trump won't have his appointees do the same thing? It's all conspiracy theories on one side, now it's the Democrats turn to say everything was rigged and made up for the next 4 years.

 

[PCHawk]

Looking back on history, it's been pretty well academically-established that countries since they were a thing last about an average of 150-ish years and empires around 250 years before they are either taken over (not too likely with the US) or they implode from within (much more common and definitely what's going to happen to the US).

Thinking the US has some kind of divine providence that will last for eons is hubris. I know we all want it to continue to exist indefinitely even though we disagree on the details, but let's be honest. It ain't happening and the last 30 years is just a normal sign of the times as it has for time immemorial. This thing is just circling the toilet bowl going faster and faster at this point. Enjoy it the way it is for the time you have left because there's no chance it's permanent. To say or even hope that it will be is foolish pride.

In 50 years I'd bet my soul that the map of this part of the earth and the factions running it are going to look a whole lot different and have names we've never heard of. It's the way it is...we aren't special.

I'm 50/50 on the map looking different part. But there's almost no doubt we won't be the world's superpower much longer. Hell we might not be already.

 

[PCHawk]

It's not like only one party is being prosecuted. Both Democrats and Republicans have done illegal things and a vast majority of them have and never will face accountability. One of those is being sworn in as President today.

Both parties are equally guilty of corruption. In my mind it's Trump's newly appointed party vs career corruption. We will see who wins. One thing is good about these pardons tho. There were two ways to avoid what was coming for the last 4 years of corruption. One was to pardon everyone. The other was to kill Trump. Looks like they chose their route and Yrump will live.

 

[PCHawk]

All of the Trump apologists have stated over and over again that the prosecuting that the Democrats have been doing is all fake and all of the charges were bullshit and made up. What makes you think that Trump won't have his appointees do the same thing? It's all conspiracy theories on one side, now it's the Democrats turn to say everything was rigged and made up for the next 4 years.

I agree with what you're saying here. My issue is for the last 4 years, the story was if you were found guilty in court you were for sure guilty. Now it's "we can't take any chances with the corrupt justice system".

For the record, I'm in the camp that it's extremely easy to find someone who will find a crime and convict you for it. The hoops the Biden administration went through to find the crimes to convict Trump is proof of that. But what was considered a conspiracy theory yesterday (a government using it's power to go after an innocent man) is considered smart to avoid today. I think Trump choosing not to pardon himself has to be proof of something tho right?

 

[Hay Man]

I agree with what you're saying here. My issue is for the last 4 years, the story was if you were found guilty in court you were for sure guilty. Now it's "we can't take any chances with the corrupt justice system".

For the record, I'm in the camp that it's extremely easy to find someone who will find a crime and convict you for it. The hoops the Biden administration went through to find the crimes to convict Trump is proof of that. But what was considered a conspiracy theory yesterday (a government using it's power to go after an innocent man) is considered smart to avoid today. I think Trump choosing not to pardon himself has to be proof of something tho right?

Trump has never admitted guilt to ANYTHING he's ever done wrong. By trying to pardon himself, that is admitting guilt of some kind, so I don't think his non personal pardon really does much at all. My two cents worth

 

[Fryowa]

Can we all just agree that regardless of which party you favored at the time that Carter and Reagan were both light years better than the garbage the system is putting out now?

I mean good lord. We used to be looked up to and respected as the leaders and defenders of the free world even though we had our share of snafus and dipshittery.

We didn't have octogenarian presidents and congress leaders who can't speak complete sentences even with teleprompters, we didn't have ridiculous threats of monarchistic powers, we didn't have judges scared that even though they have lifetime appointments, if they don't toe the current political line, the democratic or republican strategists will dig up a picture or snapchat video of something dumb they did at age 20 ruining their lives.

For chrissakes let's take a single day on this thread and put down the sticks, boys, and just remember the days that this country used to be a cool place to exist. None of you guys if you met in person over a beer would hate each other, why are you letting Trump and/or Harris turn you into those kinds of people?

 

[ShemHawk]

Can we all just agree that regardless of which party you favored at the time that Carter and Reagan were both light years better than the garbage the system is putting out now?

I mean good lord. We used to be looked up to and respected as the leaders and defenders of the free world even though we had our share of snafus and dipshittery.

We didn't have octogenarian presidents and congress leaders who can't speak complete sentences even with teleprompters, we didn't have ridiculous threats of monarchistic powers, we didn't have judges scared that even though they have lifetime appointments, if they don't toe the current political line, the democratic or republican strategists will dig up a picture or snapchat video of something dumb they did at age 20 ruining their lives.

For chrissakes let's take a single day on this thread and put down the sticks, boys, and just remember the days that this country used to be a cool place to exist. None of you guys if you met in person over a beer would hate each other, why are you letting Trump and/or Harris turn you into those kinds of people?

Carter was the best 'person' to hold the office in my lifetime (56 years). Reagan at least empowered smart people around him and listened to them. I was never a big fan of either Bush, but they acted like the leaders of a powerful nation (maybe other than puking on the Japanese Prime Minister and fainting...man, the Secret Service had to be shitting themselves). Clinton was obviously flawed, but had charisma for days and could work with either side of the aisle. And I'll take Clinton or Obama in a debate against pretty much anybody.

As the song says, "You don't know what you got until it's gone."

 

[Hay Man]

Can we all just agree that regardless of which party you favored at the time that Carter and Reagan were both light years better than the garbage the system is putting out now?

I mean good lord. We used to be looked up to and respected as the leaders and defenders of the free world even though we had our share of snafus and dipshittery.

We didn't have octogenarian presidents and congress leaders who can't speak complete sentences even with teleprompters, we didn't have ridiculous threats of monarchistic powers, we didn't have judges scared that even though they have lifetime appointments, if they don't toe the current political line, the democratic or republican strategists will dig up a picture or snapchat video of something dumb they did at age 20 ruining their lives.

For chrissakes let's take a single day on this thread and put down the sticks, boys, and just remember the days that this country used to be a cool place to exist. None of you guys if you met in person over a beer would hate each other, why are you letting Trump and/or Harris turn you into those kinds of people?

I wasn't angry at anything that was said before you came in. It seemed like a normal conversation. My main beef is with Trump, as I've stated multiple times.

I absolutely agree with what you're saying about how different it used to be and wish we could go back to those times.

 

[PCHawk]

I just read Biden's handler's statement on the pardons. They are basically saying they trust the justice system to eventually come to the right decision, but the hassle of going through that process isn't worth it.

 

[PCHawk]

Trump has never admitted guilt to ANYTHING he's ever done wrong. By trying to pardon himself, that is admitting guilt of some kind, so I don't think his non personal pardon really does much at all. My two cents worth

But someone who never admits they did something wrong also wouldn't think pardoning himself is admitting guilt. They would just justify it the same way Biden's handlers did. Say it's because they don't want to waste their time defending themselves against trumped up charges.

 

[PCHawk]

Can we all just agree that regardless of which party you favored at the time that Carter and Reagan were both light years better than the garbage the system is putting out now?

I mean good lord. We used to be looked up to and respected as the leaders and defenders of the free world even though we had our share of snafus and dipshittery.

We didn't have octogenarian presidents and congress leaders who can't speak complete sentences even with teleprompters, we didn't have ridiculous threats of monarchistic powers, we didn't have judges scared that even though they have lifetime appointments, if they don't toe the current political line, the democratic or republican strategists will dig up a picture or snapchat video of something dumb they did at age 20 ruining their lives.

For chrissakes let's take a single day on this thread and put down the sticks, boys, and just remember the days that this country used to be a cool place to exist. None of you guys if you met in person over a beer would hate each other, why are you letting Trump and/or Harris turn you into those kinds of people?

I'm not old enough to remember those times so I can't speak to them. Bush was a war monger who couldn't public speak much better than Biden and 9/11 and constant war happened on his watch. Other than political prosecutions against the other side and social media issues, I'm not sure those times were better.

 

[PCHawk]

I wasn't angry at anything that was said before you came in. It seemed like a normal conversation. My main beef is with Trump, as I've stated multiple times.

I absolutely agree with what you're saying about how different it used to be and wish we could go back to those times.

No shit. Who's fighting here? Seemed like a normal conversation with me.

 

[PCHawk]

Holy shit he pardoned his family members too. Biden is probably months away from death and is completely out of the political picture now. He and his family are no threat to Trump at all. Also anyone paying any attention knows Biden had nothing to do with anything the last 4 years so the "revenge on his family" makes no sense in that instance. Trump didn't go after anyone in his first term as president. Including Hillary who he threatened repeatedly. I can understand a revenge argument on Miley or the Jan 6th committee. But not Fauci or Biden's random family members.

 

[Hay Man]

Yeah, the pardon pen is almost out of ink by now.

 

[PCHawk]

Whats crazy about blanket pardons for unspecified crimes is if someone on that list happened to have murdered someone last year, and evidence leads back to them, the blanket pardon that had nothing to do with that would also cover that crime, even tho Biden had no idea it even happened when he gave the pardon. How is it OK to give a pardon for a crime that hasn't even been specified yet?