I would say oligarchy...it probably always has been.
Trump supporters, how do you square this?
- Thread starter CP87
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I would say oligarchy...it probably always has been.
I think him being a narcissist might be a good thing. People think that because he is one, he is Hitler and wants all the power in the world. I think he wants to be remembered as the greatest president that ever lived. There's an old video of him talking to Oprah (back when she loved him) where he talked about how poorly our country is run in terms of trading deals with other countries. He said he would never run for president. When she pushed him, he said he can't say never because if it keeps getting worse he would maybe do it.
I think his goal is to turn this country around from the economical standpoint. He wants to get business back from overseas and stop relying so much on other countries. If he did that and returned us to where we were around WW2 (and if the media stopped vilifying him) he would be remembered as a great president. He's got no chance to be considered the greatest now after everything that's transpired, but there's no way he could have known how bad he would be attacked.
People act like MAGA is a racist thing, saying it was never great from the black people's point of view (which is true). But it's not about that. America used to manufacture everything. Now it all comes from overseas. It's not sustainable. We were a wealthy country precisely because of our manufacturing. Without that we are only rich in terms of raising our debt with no regard to where that leads.
He said in the 80s that's why he would run, and he still says now that's why he is running. Again, that's what the whole MAGA slogan is about. Getting us back to where we prospered economically. He just had no idea the shitstorm he was in for the second he won. He says now he knows more about who to hire and what to do. I have my doubts for sure. But with my opinion of the government machine, I've got no choice but to hold out hope for him and his movement.
I'm really surprised that with the way you feel about all that, you don't think it's at least possible that Trump is bucking that trend. Sorry if I'm being repetitive because I've said so much in this thread it's hard to remember everything. But if the government is who we both think they are, and if Trump is who I think/hope he is, then how he is being treated is exactly how they would treat him.
They would attack him through the press from the first day in office. They would impeach him for meddling in Biden's affairs in Ukraine. They would give him negative press even when he did obvious good things like Chinese tairiffs and killing ISIS leaders. They would rig the next election. They would refuse extra security for a protest, escalade it into a riot, and call the riot an insurrection. They would impeach him for said protest turned riot. They would kick him off social media right after he conceided the election. They would leave him alone for two and a half years waiting to see if he runs again. Then, when he announces he's running, they would change laws to allow someone from the 90s to say he raped her. They would use one DA who ran on "getting Trump" to take one crime and charge him 37 felonies instead of one slap on the wrist. They would fine him hundreds of billions of dollars for a victimless crime for doing business in a way that is common practice. They would tell the other business's they don't need to flee the state because they have nothing to worry about, essentially admiting they were just getting Trump. They would try to assassinate him.
And just to be clear, I'm not saying they for sure did all of those things. I'm just saying that that would be a perfect playbook for a crooked government to use on someone who tried to clean them up.
Fryowa
Administrator
False. That's the intent, but not the result.
Fryowa
Administrator
No. trump is a popular guy with conservatives who wants power and prestige and the president’s office is the ultimate in power and prestige. In today’s world it’s the most power you can humanly have. That’s what he wants and he’ll do anything the party machine wants to get it. That’s the trade off.
Trump doesn’t give a shit about you, the party, or the country. He knows he’s only got a small handful of years left on this planet and he wants to be the penultimate dude. His money isn’t a concern anymore, he couldn’t spend it in the time he has left and he knows it.
The way he gets that power he wants is by making schmucks believe his bullshit, and the way he gets there is the party’s "approval.” The party knows he can get elected because of his popular rhetoric so they don’t care. It’s a quid pro quo, brotha.
You don’t think if they thought a guy like Rubio or Cruz could get voted in they wouldn’t tell Trump to take a hike because of all the trouble he stirs up? Brother, lemme tell ya what…you have drank the Kool Aid and have it running through your veins. Unfortunately their bullshit facade has worked on you.
And it worked WELL. You are a very intelligent person who also has a penchant for conspiracy theories. And what sucks is you have the biggest conspiracy theory in human history (American politics in the 21st century) sitting right in front of your face laughing it’s ass off, and you can’t even see it…
That all makes more sense if he didn't already accomplish that goal. The idea that he's willing to go through everything he's going through just to have 4 more years of what he's already had just doesn't quite add up for me. He could end up in prison and/or broke after all of this. They've made it perfectly clear the lengths they will go to keep him out of the White House. Seems way easier to sail off into the sunset then get back in the crosshairs (literally). Guys like Tom Brady keep going after one more year when it's way easier to recognize you've already done it all and it's time to relax, so there are people who are wired that way. I'm not saying you're for sure not right. But the good news for me is it doesn't matter because I'm 100% convinced everyone else is crooked as hell, so I'm voting for him even if I'm 99% sure he's crooked too. Simple math.
As far as falling for conspiracy theories goes. The theory I'm falling for is whoever was running the White House for the last 4 years wasn't an elected official and definitely doesn't have America's best interests in mind. We have both fallen for that conspiracy theory. I don't think my holding out hope that Trump isn't also corrupt really falls into the conspiracy theory category. I'd say it's more of a dreamer or a wishful thinker category.
That's the crap I see all the time. Is that true and "the other side" Never sees things like that? Is it true and the other side just doesn't care? Or is it made up? I honestly don't know so I'm pretty good at pushing info like that into a file titled "who knows". It's entirely possible/probable that each individual file didn't really do anything to change my perception but it got so full I've slowly radicalized. But judging by how often I hear and see the other side saying "I don't need to see or hear that because I already know it's a lie" I'd guess the other side is at least equally wrong. If I'm going to be wrong, I'd rather be wrong because I saw too much information instead of only seeing one side.
You should hook up with him once and blackmail him for billions.
SCHawkeye2
Well-Known Member
Opinion | The Worst People Run for Office. It’s Time for a Better Way. (Published 2023)
Leaders are less likely to be corrupt when they’re chosen at random.
For those who can access, here is a really interesting idea on how to improve democracy.
If your position is that all the bad things and criminality that seems to surround Trump is do to a vast conspiracy, that is an unfalsifiable position, and no amount of evidence will ever persuade you otherwise.
When you look at the 4 cases against Trump they are all bending the rules really bad to prosecute. Especially when no president has ever been prosecuted before. You would think the case that finally was too much to turn a blind eye would be something more than overvaluing your own properties.
I just thought of a counter to your point about the political parties running whoever will get them the win. RFK. They knew they were in trouble with Biden and there's no doubt they don't live their chances with Harris. RFK could have easily won because so many democrats are blue no matter who and a lit of Republicans love him. He had a way better chance to win than Biden or Harris, yet they didn't even let him go through the democratic process of earning the nomination. You think they run the candidate who gives them the best chance to win. I think they run the candidate that they have the best chance to control.
x.com
x.com
Here's a clip of Jon Stewart that also shows the legacy media all going after the same thing like it's a coordinated attack. There's no way that joke gets that much attention spontaneously. It's like they all get the memo that says "run with this".
The clip itself is pretty funny too. The joke itself really wasn't. As evident by the way none of the nazis even laughed.
Fryowa
Administrator
The truth doesn’t have to add up to anyone. The truth is what it is whether you believe it or don’t believe it. You’d be wise to understand that. Truth isn’t a person’s perception of whether it’s the truth or not. They are not the same.
What you just wrote right there proves you’ve fallen in with what the party wants my friend. They’ve gotten you to believe what they want you to believe. The left does the same thing riling up socialists.
Where you see it being easier to ride off into the sunset I see an old man who knows he’s dying soon and to whom the only thing that matters anymore is his own delusion and desire to do something that will satisfy wants that only rich men can have when money doesn’t matter anymore. It’s hilarious to me that you’ve been duped so bad that you think this guy cares about you. But, it’s like anything else in life, if you’re ignorant to the truth you don’t know you’re being had.
I will say it’d be easier just to trust a politician and rant against the other side like an obedient puppy. I couldn’t sleep at night if did that though. Maybe I wish I could.
Holy shit how many times do I have to say I don't know if he cares about me or not? I just no the people running the White House now don't so I'm rolling the dice. I literally talked about that in the post you quoted. Your post is proof that a lot of people start reading and immediately make up their mind about where a post is going without actually comprehending the rest of the post.
Fryowa
Administrator
While I disagree, it’s same/same. The parties control who gets the chance at being president, not you and not the public. They want you to think you do because they make it some big chest pumping ritual where you’re “doing your civic duty,” LOL
No different than religion. They light a spark in easily duped people, and then they fuel it with promises that they’re looking out for you first, and then guilt if you don’t sit in the pew or cast a vote for their mothership.
Nothing about American government is democratic, or a republic, or blah blah blah. It’s two parties each wanting to be in control who limit your options to two sets of their minions. You have no choice but from those two companies.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
Fryowa
Administrator
You think voting makes a difference otherwise why would you do it? That’s the crux of the matter. It’s all bullshit until you can give a logical reason otherwise. That’s what I’m getting at. This whole thing is just a big theater of the absurd and you eat it up which is what the left and the right want you to do.
You get to choose between terrible choice A and terrible choice B, and those are your only choices. This system you seem so interested is just a big farce. An independent has no chance. Literally, not figuratively. That’s not a free election. But you think it is.
