Top 10 most indispensible players?

[homerHAWKeye777]

Oh I agree with you on that. I still may have put Greenwood on there ahead of Prater, because we don't have much behind Sash or Greenwood right now (several walk-ons, IIRC). Losing one of them would likely create a big dropoff in talent, not to mention experience. But Prater is an excellent CB, who could be just as good as Spievey when he's done.

I hear ya. However, the flip side is that if Greenwood goes down, we still have a veteran starter in Sash who can help the "next man in" make the transition. At CB, if Prater goes down, Castillo and Lowe are entering the 2010 seasons with 1 and 2 starts, respectively. Thus, while we definitely have talent and experience at CB ... its not yet veteran talent.

 

[whammer33024]

You really shouldn't use winning percentage as your main criteria for how good a QB is, well unless you want to argue that Greg McElroy was the best QB in the nation last year.

i see other criteria posted other than just winning percentage

 

[irvskyle]

You really shouldn't use winning percentage as your main criteria for how good a QB is, well unless you want to argue that Greg McElroy was the best QB in the nation last year.

good thing I didnt list completion percentage td to int ratio and qb rating then.

you really shouldnt respond to posts without reading the whole thing unless you want to look ignorant

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

good thing I didnt list completion percentage td to int ratio and qb rating then.

you really shouldnt respond to posts without reading the whole thing unless you want to look ignorant

Did I say you didn't list anything else? You had winning percentage first, you've mentioned it first in every post where you've brought up Stanzi. I never said it was your only argument. And if Stanzi had played against OSU there's probably a good chance he would have had more interceptions than touchdowns on the season.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

i see other criteria posted other than just winning percentage

I never said it was the only thing, I said main point. He's brought it up in every post, try to keep up.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

Is this fact? Can I verify this somewhere or are you delusional and talking out of your ***?

Vandenburg is a .500 qb at this point with a miserable failure of a second half against NW, nothing more

Stanzi's first game might be important in this discussion if I had a time machine, but since the only thing that matters is who is better now I will leave the time travel to Doc and marty

I'm sure Vandenberg jitters had nothing to do with the fact that he literally had about four minutes to get himself mentally ready to go in. He was nervous, so chill out.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

That was how the season went for Murray though. He wasn't ever consistent. And there's a reason that Mossbrucker was the kicker through the 2008 season. He took a confidence hit after Ferentz turned to Murray for the PSU kick, IMO. That was a 31-yard FG, which was within the range where we used Mossbrucker all year, while Murray was used more for long-range attempts because he had the bigger leg. Whichever one wins the job this year, I hope he's got consistency going for him.

And if I remember right, you're one who isn't so sure that Stross didn't intentionally drop those balls at OSU (pardon me if I'm mistaken). I'm not one who believes that, but I don't really know a reason why he struggled so much other than maybe he was nervous playing in such a big game in front of family in friends (it was his only game at OSU, so he hadn't played in front of the home crowd in an Iowa uniform), and that Vandenberg brought it a lot harder than Stanzi (he could have afforded to take a little off of both throws on the goalline).

You are mistaken. And the kick that Murray missed was a 22 yarder right in the middle of the field. A chip shot. A PAT. Inconsistent or not, he shouldn't miss from there.

 

[tm3308]

I hear ya. However, the flip side is that if Greenwood goes down, we still have a veteran starter in Sash who can help the "next man in" make the transition. At CB, if Prater goes down, Castillo and Lowe are entering the 2010 seasons with 1 and 2 starts, respectively. Thus, while we definitely have talent and experience at CB ... its not yet veteran talent.

I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything, just seeing how the argument plays out here. While it's true that if Greenwood went down that Sash could help the new guy by getting him into the right position, I would think that QB's would avoid Sash's side of the field even more than they already do, and pick on the replacement. And with as much cover 2 as we play, where the corners aren't going to stay with a receiver 30 yards downfield (at least not as tight as they would inside of 15 yards), I would think they would pick on the replacement as much as they could. They would do that if we had to replace Prater, too. But I would feel better about a QB picking on Bernstine or Lowe than I would if they picked on Swanson/Nielson/etc. Kind of like how teams went to Prater more last year. He was a very good corner, but teams feared Spievey that much.

 

[tm3308]

You are mistaken. And the kick that Murray missed was a 22 yarder right in the middle of the field. A chip shot. A PAT. Inconsistent or not, he shouldn't miss from there.

Sorry about that. I know there is one guy around here that thinks Stross did that on purpose, but it's been awhile since he said it, so I've forgotten exactly who it was.

And I agree that Murray had no business missing that FG. He's not ever been THAT good of a kicker, he just happened to get plugged in for the biggest Iowa FG attempt since 1985 and came through. But I felt a lot better with Mossbrucker out there before. Now if Murray elevates his game and becomes a good kicker this year, then I'll be more than happy to have him as our kicker. But if he doesn't and Mossbrucker finds his game again, that's who I want doing the kicking.

 

[irvskyle]

I never said it was the only thing, I said main point. He's brought it up in every post, try to keep up.

I guess I was under the impression that winning was the most important thing? If I am mistaken please enlighten me

 

[EddyP]

I'm sure Vandenberg jitters had nothing to do with the fact that he literally had about four minutes to get himself mentally ready to go in. He was nervous, so chill out.

Come on Shada he's just a .500 qb with 2 career starts one of them being at the Shoe in which he took them to OT. I like Rick and there is no question he should be the starter but my how things might be different if not for 2 consecutive blocked field goals.

 

[irvskyle]

I'm sure Vandenberg jitters had nothing to do with the fact that he literally had about four minutes to get himself mentally ready to go in. He was nervous, so chill out.

I missed the part where I said that jitters didnt have anything to do with it. I also missed the part where 'jitters' was a viable reason for playing poorly in Big 10 football

 

[ShadasRevenge]

I missed the part where I said that jitters didnt have anything to do with it. I also missed the part where 'jitters' was a viable reason for playing poorly in Big 10 football

That's because you didn't say that. But if you want to rip the kid for playing badly against NW, you have to give him credit for playing much better than anyone expected against OSU.

It's amazing how much better he looked with a week to get ready as opposed to four minutes, isn't it?

 

[irvskyle]

Come on Shada he's just a .500 qb with 2 career starts one of them being at the Shoe in which he took them to OT. I like Rick and there is no question he should be the starter but my how things might be different if not for 2 consecutive blocked field goals.

I dont understand why it matters that he took them to OT? Did we get extra special bonus points for that? Just like Nebby did in the big 12 championship game? Had he not thrown 2picks (3) would we have won? Did Ricky lose any of the games he played in entirety last year? Are we all going to just assume ricky would have thrown 4 or more interceptions? Would we all be talking about how great Ricky played if he had lost to OSU in overtime?

 

[tm3308]

I missed the part where I said that jitters didnt have anything to do with it. I also missed the part where 'jitters' was a viable reason for playing poorly in Big 10 football

For an upperclassman, it's not. For a freshman, it's a VERY viable reason. It's not like freshmen who can instantly handle the pressure of keeping an unbeaten season alive (who were unexpectedly thrown into action) grow on trees. He's going to have benefitted from that experience, and he should be a better player this year.

 

[tm3308]

I dont understand why it matters that he took them to OT? Did we get extra special bonus points for that? Just like Nebby did in the big 12 championship game? Had he not thrown 2picks (3) would we have won? Did Ricky lose any of the games he played in entirety last year? Are we all going to just assume ricky would have thrown 4 or more interceptions? Would we all be talking about how great Ricky played if he had lost to OSU in overtime?

No, you don't get special bonus points for going to OT with a freshman QB making his first career start, on the road, in The Shoe. Nobody is saying that. But that doesn't mean that you can't be very impressed with his performance. Which is why people feel very good about Vandenberg. Because he did have a good performance by just about any QB's standards, but ESPECIALLY given the circumstances.

 

[irvskyle]

That's because you didn't say that. But if you want to rip the kid for playing badly against NW, you have to give him credit for playing much better than anyone expected against OSU.

It's amazing how much better he looked with a week to get ready as opposed to four minutes, isn't it?

For an upperclassman, it's not. For a freshman, it's a VERY viable reason. It's not like freshmen who can instantly handle the pressure of keeping an unbeaten season alive (who were unexpectedly thrown into action) grow on trees. He's going to have benefitted from that experience, and he should be a better player this year.

I agree with both of these statements and I think Vandenburg is going to be fine eventually. I just have a hard time celebrating a guy whose signature game to this point is a Loss especially when he looked awful in the nw game and pedestrian at best in the Minnesota game. In my opinion anything less than 10-2 (hopefully 11-1) this season with Stanzi is a dissappointment, if Vandenburg was the starter I would be looking at an 8-4 or 9-3 season and probably be happy. Thats a big difference to me from good to elite(outback or BCS). That is the point of being indispensible right? If we were without any other player I am not sure my final record expectation would change as much

 

[EddyP]

I dont understand why it matters that he took them to OT? Did we get extra special bonus points for that? Just like Nebby did in the big 12 championship game? Had he not thrown 2picks (3) would we have won? Did Ricky lose any of the games he played in entirety last year? Are we all going to just assume ricky would have thrown 4 or more interceptions? Would we all be talking about how great Ricky played if he had lost to OSU in overtime?

I noticed you didn't address needing 2 consecutive blocked field goals to beat UNI at home. I know bottom line right?

 

[irvskyle]

I noticed you didn't address needing 2 consecutive blocked field goals to beat UNI at home. I know bottom line right?

I noticed you didnt answer my question if Ricky had played and taken OSU to overtime and lost would we all still be talking about it like he invented the wheel?

As for the UNI game its tough to pick Iowa players that stood out. Maybe Moeaki?
Part of the offenses problem was no running game... Paki was a bad idea and they stuck with it far too long. The offensive line was awful and the defense had real trouble stopping their passing game.

Ricky didnt play great thats for sure, but had just the one fumble that I recall completed 65% of his passes and won the game.

The biggest problem I have always had with other Iowa fans is that they always are looking to the next qb, and still havent learned that sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for. I see this becoming that kind of situation, Ricky won every game he played in its entirety last year and who knows what would have happened had he finished that NW game and tOSU game

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

I noticed you didnt answer my question if Ricky had played and taken OSU to overtime and lost would we all still be talking about it like he invented the wheel?

As for the UNI game its tough to pick Iowa players that stood out. Maybe Moeaki?
Part of the offenses problem was no running game... Paki was a bad idea and they stuck with it far too long. The offensive line was awful and the defense had real trouble stopping their passing game.

Ricky didnt play great thats for sure, but had just the one fumble that I recall completed 65% of his passes and won the game.

The biggest problem I have always had with other Iowa fans is that they always are looking to the next qb, and still havent learned that sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for. I see this becoming that kind of situation, Ricky won every game he played in its entirety last year and who knows what would have happened had he finished that NW game and tOSU game

Taking them to overtime wasn't the reason people were excited with Vandenburg. Iowa could have lost in regulation and I still would have felt the same way. The OSU game was the best Iowa's passing offense looked all year. And it was on the road against one of the best defensive teams in the nation with a freshman QB making his first start. Stanzi is an extremley good fit for this team and is a "winner" but he also has a habit of keeping the other team in the game. I want Stanzi to start and play all year but all I'm saying is I didn't see anything from him all year that made think he could have played better in that one game.