It's really fascinating. Rhodes has also made the entire fanbase forget that McCarney ever had success there, if you talk to any Clone fan you will get the impression that the Gene Chizik era lasted a decade, rather than two years, and that Rhodes has taken the program to heights they have never seen, when in reality they were just as good or better for most of the previous decade under McCarney.
Top 10 coaches who won't survive the 2013 season
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It's really fascinating. Rhodes has also made the entire fanbase forget that McCarney ever had success there, if you talk to any Clone fan you will get the impression that the Gene Chizik era lasted a decade, rather than two years, and that Rhodes has taken the program to heights they have never seen, when in reality they were just as good or better for most of the previous decade under McCarney.
FreedComanche
Banned
Not to pile on, but there is simply no reason for the clones to be excited about their team's chances this fall. Unlike most on here, I want the clones to do well. But if you survey all they lost on defense from last year and their schedule this year, it's very easy to believe that they'll win three games and no more.
Wish this wasn't the case, but they are in the wrong conference at the wrong time to have a winning season. And if they have to play all the good big 12 schools each year, they will probably never have a winning season again unless Nick Saban or Chip Kelly becomes coach.
FreedComanche
slickwillard
Well-Known Member
I liked Dan a lot and was sad to see him go, but his stats werent mind blowing. He got some lucky breaks here and there, but lets look at his record overall from season to season. No consistency and he dropped the ball in some very big winnable games. He also didnt have to play the big dogs of the b12 every season and had some great opportunities to win the north when it was down.
| Year | Team | Overall | Conference | Standing | Bowl/playoffs | Coaches[SUP]#[/SUP] | AP[SUP]°[/SUP] |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Iowa State Cyclones (Big Eight Conference) (1995) | |||||||
| 1995 | Iowa State | 3–8 | 1–6 | T–7th | |||
| Iowa State Cyclones (Big 12 Conference) (1996–2006) | |||||||
| 1996 | Iowa State | 2–9 | 1–7 | 6th (North) | |||
| 1997 | Iowa State | 1–10 | 1–7 | 6th (North) | |||
| 1998 | Iowa State | 3–8 | 1–7 | T–5th (North) | |||
| 1999 | Iowa State | 4–7 | 1–7 | T–5th (North) | |||
| 2000 | Iowa State | 9–3 | 5–3 | 3rd (North) | W Insight.com | 23 | 25 |
| 2001 | Iowa State | 7–5 | 4–4 | 3rd (North) | L Independence | ||
| 2002 | Iowa State | 7–7 | 4–4 | 3rd (North) | L Humanitarian | ||
| 2003 | Iowa State | 2–10 | 0–8 | 6th (North) | |||
| 2004 | Iowa State | 7–5 | 4–4 | T–1st (North) | W Independence | ||
| 2005 | Iowa State | 7–5 | 4–4 | T–2nd (North) | L Houston | ||
| 2006 | Iowa State | 4–8 | 1–7 | 6th (North) | |||
| Iowa State: | 56–85 | 27–68 |
Rhoads has built some consistency while playing a much heavy handed schedule. Like I said, he cant keep doing that forever. He needs to have a better record soon. We all know that and believe that can be achieved. He has surprised us in games we never thought we had a chance to win, Dan never really did that when he had the opportunity. Youre also looking at a school who didnt put a ton of resources into building up its football program until this last decade. We started from way behind. Its not going to be a quick turnaround.
Section136
Well-Known Member
So you are pretty much saying McCarney had just as much, if not more, success than Rhoads but had less resources to work with than Rhoads does. Again, why the optimism?
FreedComanche
Banned
Come on, man. Let's all lay off him. He knows, deep down, they'll never be winners as long as they are in the big 12. It's hard for a fan to actually say that.
FreedComanche
slickwillard
Well-Known Member
Like I said before. KState and come to think of it, so has Kansas, have proven they can do it. I think we can too.
trj
Well-Known Member
everyone in the Big 12, the old big 12 and the new since 2005 have been to a bcs game or had a double digit win season except for colorado and wait for it......you got it ISU.
trj
Well-Known Member
You have been so adamant about KF needing to go I thought you were trying to start up another endless debate........probably would have spun that way if Rhoads wasn't on the list............anyhoooo, my bad.
slickwillard
Well-Known Member
trj
Well-Known Member
Section136
Well-Known Member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
OMG! LOL!!!
Doesnt know how to work teh quote function!!!!
OMG! LOL!!!
Doesnt know how to work teh quote function!!!!
trj
Well-Known Member
ISU has gotten the top committment at a skill position for the last 50 years?
Cyclones17
Well-Known Member
Your very out of touch for many reasons.
An easy way to describe it for you. When Dan was here we had 4 non con games and didn't play a round robin conference schedule. We'd go 3 years without seeing Texas, OU, or TT. Now we play them all and Iowa State's SOS the last 3 years has been in the top 5 every year I believe. Back when Dan was beating up on teams to get to 7 wins, he was doing it with schedules around the 70's.
An easier way to describe it to you. It's like Iowa State winning 6 games with their schedule and Iowa winning 7 with theirs. Every knowledgable football fan realizes the 6 wins is more impressive b/c it came against tougher teams
My point is valid and if you could read the bolded part above you'd see that.
Dan McCarney won 28% of his games in Big 12 play....when the Big 12 was worse. He was able to play Baylor when they were awful (yet still lost to them), Colorado, Missouri (when they were bad), Kansas, etc. The Big 12 north minus Nebraska wasn't good and he got to play those teams every year.
Now Rhoads comes in and has to play every team, including the good ones, EVERY YEAR. And he still has a higher winning percentage in conference play than Dan McCarney ever did.
Section136
Well-Known Member
This point doesnt even get to enter in the argument until February when Lazard could become more than just a verbal.
Even then, I doubt the #1 WR by one recruiting service is going to vault the entire recruiting class much higher than the ISU standard, which is at or near the bottom of the Big 12.
McCarney took over ISU in 1995. The B12 North was probably the toughest division in college football for the first several years he coached there. Nebraska won national titles in '95 and '97 and finished in the top 10 every year but one from '95-'02. K-State finished in the top 10 six times in the same time period and Colorado did 3 times. The B12 North was extremely tough for most of McCarney's time there.
McCarney's conf win percentage over his last 7 years at ISU was .392, Rhodes conf win percentage is .342.
With him they are currently 8th in the B12, although I hear Lazard is leaning toward ND now anyway.
Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com 2014 Team Recruiting Rankings
You were asking why there is optmism, and getting commitments from increasingly better recruits now is why. A top midwest lineman like Campos switched from an SEC school to ISU last year. Lazard is the top wr in the country by many recruiting services and he's given a verbal commitment. These types of players haven't come to ISU for 50 years and now they are, hence the reason for the optimism.
Section 136 - So let me get this straight then. ISU is bringing in the same type of talent it has for the last 50 years relative to other teams in their conference, but now there is all kinds of optimism that the Clones are going to step up and start being above average regularly now?
Why?
Me - ISU has gotten the top committment at a skill position for the last 50 years?
Section136
Well-Known Member
Every class that ISU has signed recently in the past has been at or near the bottom of the conference. Until that changes, it is the same type of talent they have always brought in. Show me a SIGNED recruiting class that says differently.
Also, what recruiting services have Lazard as the #1 WR in the class of 2014?
Cyclones17
Well-Known Member
Your very out of touch for many reasons.
An easy way to describe it for you. When Dan was here we had 4 non con games and didn't play a round robin conference schedule. We'd go 3 years without seeing Texas, OU, or TT. Now we play them all and Iowa State's SOS the last 3 years has been in the top 5 every year I believe. Back when Dan was beating up on teams to get to 7 wins, he was doing it with schedules around the 70's.
An easier way to describe it to you. It's like Iowa State winning 6 games with their schedule and Iowa winning 7 with theirs. Every knowledgable football fan realizes the 6 wins is more impressive b/c it came against tougher teams
And like I said in my initial post (still not sure what you have to argue with), the last 7 years when McCarney was winning at a slightly higher clip, his conference SOS was MUCH easier than what Rhoads has had.
McCarney when he would win 4 games in conference played this for a conference slate.
Nebraska (they were avg)
Baylor (awful)
Missouri (average)
Okie State (average)
A&M (average)
Kansas State (didn't go to a bowl game)
Colorado (average)
Kansas (awful)
None of those teams won over 7 games. Compare that to Rhoads slate. It's not the same. Baylor is light years better. OSU is too. TCU and WV are better than Colorado and Missouri where back than.
Iowa State's SOS in 2005 was 75th. 2004 was 50th. 2001 was 78th. 2000 was 54th. This last year? 3rd.
Rhoads last 3 years Iowa State has had a SOS in the top 10 every year
