Tony Parker is a bad man

[theboat]

This. I'm not LeBron's biggest fan in the world, but his play should have silenced the "killer instinct" critics a long time ago. If people want to keep hating on him for The Decision, that's one thing. But you can't knock his overall ability/intangibles as a player at this point.

There are two different discussions. Killer instinct as compared to other basketball players, Lebron is at the top. Compared to Jordan, not close.

Same goes for him as a basketball player. He is the best player in the league by far right now, just don't compare him to the best ever.

 

[woodyk1]

There are two different discussions. Killer instinct as compared to other basketball players, Lebron is at the top. Compared to Jordan, not close.

Same goes for him as a basketball player. He is the best player in the league by far right now, just don't compare him to the best ever.

Well, part of it may have been Jordan being a bit of a psycho when it comes to losing.

Michael Jordan practiced as hard as he played in games - ESPN Chicago

He could be a pain in the butt.

They all knew that.

Jordan practices rarely involved standing around and smiling.
"We'd run a three-man shooting drill in practice," longtime assistant Johnny Bach recalled. "And Michael always made sure he had the threesome he wanted. Not Trent Tucker, not Johnny Paxson, not Craig Hodges [among the best 3-point shooters in the league].

"He'd say, 'I'm calling my pigeons up to shoot.' They were shooting for some remuneration. He'd force himself to shoot under pressure. He needed a challenge to beat [Scottie] Pippen. He knew Horace [Grant] had a nice shot. He'd also throw some wicked passes to [his shooters]. You're supposed to honor the code to throw a good pass to the shooter, but he had a way of throwing screwballs and sinkers. Not that he would have tolerated that. That was imperial Michael at his best."

"Run it back, run it back," is what Michael yelled when his team lost. It is what he said whenever he had lost.

"Everyone heard of our famous card games," said former Bulls guard B.J. Armstrong. "Why did they last forever? Because Michael never loses. Whatever he's doing, he's going to win because he's going to keep on playing."


And then, just read this ...

Craziest Michael Jordan Stories - Business Insider

 

[BryceC]

Is anybody close to Jordan? Why is Jordan even getting brought up here?

 

[Clark]

There are two different discussions. Killer instinct as compared to other basketball players, Lebron is at the top. Compared to Jordan, not close.

Same goes for him as a basketball player. He is the best player in the league by far right now, just don't compare him to the best ever.

Oh, I didn't realize Bill Russell was brought up in this thread...

 

[JHHawk]

This could be another series like Heat vs Pacers where their is nobody getting more than a game lead...hope so.
Each game is like its own event,and has nothing to do with the next game or last game.

Spurs stars did not have good games last nite,and they went down.
I think the home court edge is not huge at this point...Heat could take a couple in SA...hope not.

Go Spurs...bounce back!

 

[hawkfan33]

Is anybody close to Jordan? Why is Jordan even getting brought up here?

The gap is narrowing...LeBron might have 4 MVP awards, 2 Finals MVP awards and 2 titles in another week all at the age of 28. If you don't think he's creeping into the greatest player ever discussion, you're wrong.

 

[BryceC]

And? I love LeBron and I think he could play a long time and be highly productive the whole time if he wants to. We are a decade plus away from any reasonable comparison. And MVPs, etc don't make people comparable players.

Regardless I don't think anybody compares to Jordan as far as just a pure desire to win and dominate, a well as build up some trove of imagined slights. Doesn't mean Lebron isn't going to be a top 5 guy or have a wonderful career.

 

[theboat]

Oh, I didn't realize Bill Russell was brought up in this thread...

Now that is just silly.

 

[hawkfan33]

And? I love LeBron and I think he could play a long time and be highly productive the whole time if he wants to. We are a decade plus away from any reasonable comparison. And MVPs, etc don't make people comparable players.

Regardless I don't think anybody compares to Jordan as far as just a pure desire to win and dominate, a well as build up some trove of imagined slights. Doesn't mean Lebron isn't going to be a top 5 guy or have a wonderful career.

It's funny that Jordan's "pure desire to win" didn't translate into wining championships until Pippen developed into an elite player and the Bulls supporting cast improved.

 

[GoHawks24]

It's funny that Jordan's "pure desire to win" didn't translate into wining championships until Pippen developed into an elite player and the Bulls supporting cast improved.

Dude, I love LeBron. I get crap about how big of a LeBron homer I am all of the time, but LeBron is nowhere close to Jordan's greatness, yet. And I wasn't even a Bulls or MJ fan back in the day, I'm just realistic. If you have any doubts about that, just read this article. And please, seriously read it before you respond. It's amazing what Jordan was able to do.

Michael Jordan birthday recalls greatness not surpassed by LeBron James dominance - ESPN Chicago

I agree that Pippen was a HUGE part of the success that MJ and the Bulls had though. No doubt about that.

 

[thejumper5]

The '92-'93 Bulls won 72 regular season and playoff games.
Jordan left.
The '93-'94 Bulls won 61 regular season and playoff games.

The '09-'10 Cavaliers won 67 regular season and playoff games.
LeBron left.
The '10-'11 Cavaliers won 19 games.

To say that Jordan's "killer instinct" was the best ever might be true, but it is also true that those Bulls teams in the '90s were insanely stacked. Swap Jordan out for any of about a half-dozen other shooting guards/small forwards (Dr. J, Jerry West, Kobe, LeBron) in NBA history, and I think they still would have been champions each of their six title years.

If you want to say that Jordan was the greatest ever, that's fine. You're probably right. But please, there are two things you shouldn't say. First, don't say LeBron, or Kobe, or Bill Russell, or Magic, or Kareem, or etc. isn't in the conversation. Second, don't use the titles argument. Those Bulls teams, beyond even MJ, were awesome teams.

 

[Clark]

If you want to say that Jordan was the greatest ever, that's fine. You're probably right. But please, there are two things you shouldn't say. First, don' say LeBron, or Kobe, or Bill Russell, or Magic, or Kareem, or etc. isn't in the conversation. Second, don't use the titles argument. Those Bulls teams, beyond even MJ, were awesome teams.

yeah, I get a kick out of it. The funny part it's mostly coming from people who didn't see most of those guys play.

 

[theboat]

The '92-'93 Bulls won 72 regular season and playoff games.
Jordan left.
The '93-'94 Bulls won 61 regular season and playoff games.

The '09-'10 Cavaliers won 67 regular season and playoff games.
LeBron left.
The '10-'11 Cavaliers won 19 games.

To say that Jordan's "killer instinct" was the best ever might be true, but it is also true that those Bulls teams in the '90s were insanely stacked. Swap Jordan out for any of about a half-dozen other shooting guards/small forwards (Dr. J, Jerry West, Kobe, LeBron) in NBA history, and I think they still would have been champions each of their six title years.

If you want to say that Jordan was the greatest ever, that's fine. You're probably right. But please, there are two things you shouldn't say. First, don't say LeBron, or Kobe, or Bill Russell, or Magic, or Kareem, or etc. isn't in the conversation. Second, don't use the titles argument. Those Bulls teams, beyond even MJ, were awesome teams.

You and I both know Toni Kukoc carried that team.

 

[GoHawks24]

The '92-'93 Bulls won 72 regular season and playoff games.
Jordan left.
The '93-'94 Bulls won 61 regular season and playoff games.

The '09-'10 Cavaliers won 67 regular season and playoff games.
LeBron left.
The '10-'11 Cavaliers won 19 games.

To say that Jordan's "killer instinct" was the best ever might be true, but it is also true that those Bulls teams in the '90s were insanely stacked. Swap Jordan out for any of about a half-dozen other shooting guards/small forwards (Dr. J, Jerry West, Kobe, LeBron) in NBA history, and I think they still would have been champions each of their six title years.

If you want to say that Jordan was the greatest ever, that's fine. You're probably right. But please, there are two things you shouldn't say. First, don' say LeBron, or Kobe, or Bill Russell, or Magic, or Kareem, or etc. isn't in the conversation. Second, don't use the titles argument. Those Bulls teams, beyond even MJ, were awesome teams.

Are you replying directly to me here? I'm not sure, because I didn't even bring up any of those other players, or the ring argument.

I'm just saying that LeBron has a lot more work to do. Is he in the conversation already? Of course, but I think a lot of people forget just how damn good Jordan was. Yes, he was on a stacked team, but that doesn't change just how dominant he was.

And the rings argument? That's almost like an apples to oranges argument, because LeBron has definitely not had the support that MJ or Kobe had.

 

[hawkfan33]

Dude, I love LeBron. I get crap about how big of a LeBron homer I am all of the time, but LeBron is nowhere close to Jordan's greatness, yet. And I wasn't even a Bulls or MJ fan back in the day, I'm just realistic. If you have any doubts about that, just read this article. And please, seriously read it before you respond. It's amazing what Jordan was able to do.

Michael Jordan birthday recalls greatness not surpassed by LeBron James dominance - ESPN Chicago

I agree that Pippen was a HUGE part of the success that MJ and the Bulls had though. No doubt about that.

I read the article, and Jordan is amazing, but just throwing out stats doesn't quite tell the whole story, especially as you go back further. Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double, that's great, Wilt averaged a 50/25 year, that's amazing. They also did it in games that averaged 150 possesions a game, while today's games average 90-100. They basically had another half of a game to rack up stats compared to today's players. The mid 80's weren't quite as bad but their is still some possesion inflated statistics compared to today.

 

[thejumper5]

Are you replying directly to me here? I'm not sure, because I didn't even bring up any of those other players, or the ring argument.

I'm just saying that LeBron has a lot more work to do. Is he in the conversation already? Of course, but I think a lot of people forget just how damn good Jordan was. Yes, he was on a stacked team, but that doesn't change just how dominant he was.

And the rings argument? That's almost like an apples to oranges argument, because LeBron has definitely not had the support that MJ or Kobe had.

Not replying directly to you. Just replying to the themes that generally get brought up in "Jordan is the greatest ever" debates.

 

[GoHawks24]

I read the article, and Jordan is amazing, but just throwing out stats doesn't quite tell the whole story, especially as you go back further. Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double, that's great, Wilt averaged a 50/25 year, that's amazing. They also did it in games that averaged 150 possesions a game, while today's games average 90-100. They basically had another half of a game to rack up stats compared to today's players. The mid 80's weren't quite as bad but their is still some possesion inflated statistics compared to today.

I don't disagree with this at all. Different timeframes and different competition. I still think Wilt would be pretty damn dominant today, but not nearly as dominant as he was back then.

 

[GoHawks24]

Not replying directly to you. Just replying to the themes that generally get brought up in "Jordan is the greatest ever" debates.

I gotcha. It'll be interesting to see how many people are still hating on LeBron when he gets a few more rings. I don't think there's any way he doesn't get at least 3 more. The guy is only 28, and watch out if he develops an even more consistent 3-point shot.

 

[thejumper5]

I gotcha. It'll be interesting to see how many people are still hating on LeBron when he gets a few more rings. I don't think there's any way he doesn't get at least 3 more. The guy is only 28, and watch out if he develops an even more consistent 3-point shot.

We'll see what he does with his potential opt-out next year. Maybe he wins the title this year and next year and decides that now that he has won 3 rings with a pair of All-Stars teammates, he wants to try again to carry a team on his back every night.

 

[GoHawks24]

We'll see what he does with his potential opt-out next year. Maybe he wins the title this year and next year and decides that now that he has won 3 rings with a pair of All-Stars teammates, he wants to try again to carry a team on his back every night.

I don't know who in their right mind would willingly want to have back problems later in life.

He's carried the Heat on his back more than enough lately as it is. I wouldn't be surprised to even see him go back to Cleveland. I think Stephen A. Smith was stating the same a few weeks ago. Wherever he goes though, I'm sure the haters will still have a problem with it. smh...