Time to stop piling on Lick

S

SteveGarvey

Well-Known Member
Really, I'm unhappy with the state of our program as well and think it's unacceptable. But, it seems that all of the negative attacks that I saw yesterday are way over the top (and I include myself). In fact, they're almost personal in nature.

I read "he's over his head" and "can't coach his way out of a paper bag" and crap like that. Thing is, he isn't "over his head"-that's nonsense. The truth is he hasn't been able to recruit the players nor keep them in a way he can be competitive. Is some of that his own fault? Yes. Is it all his fault? No. When you say he's in "over his head" or "can't coach his way out of a paper bag" then you're basically calling him an idiot or not capable of being a D1 coach. The man was COACH OF THE YEAR a few years ago. Again, he hasn't gotten the job done here and I get that. But all of the negativity and personal attacks are beyond the pale.

I believe he's a man of integrity who tries to do things the right way, unlike other sleazy coaches and programs that we all know about who somehow get 5 star players to come to their play for them. I'd rather be a losing program with integrity than a winning one who cheats.

I'm sure Todd Lickliter has a lot of pride and all of the losing is tearing him up inside. How could it not? It just doesn't do any good to pee and moan about every loss and hate on him so much. I mean, I read a couple of posts yesterday that actually said they hope we lose to Michigan in the BTT so the season will be done. Huh? No, I hope we beat Michigan so the program can get a boost and the season lasts at least one more game. Do I think that will happen? No. I'd give it about a 15% chance of happening but I'm still going to hope for that. I suggest if you really want them to lose, that you start rooting for another team and go to another board. I mean, you REALLY WANT IOWA TO LOSE? C'mon man.

I'm neither a Lick lover nor hater but just trying to keep it real.
 
I have strong suspicions Todd is the kind of man and person he seems to be. I don't dislike him, and I want him to succeed...because he is the coach of the Iowa basketball team.

There is a lot more about being the head of a program than just what you know about basketball. A lot more. I think Todd is old school in some ways, and I think that is hurting him...communication with his players is one of those areas that I repeatedly hear is lacking.

Some people need to be reaffirmed more than others...some need a dialogue where others do not. As a head of a program, you need to be a little bit of all things to all people...you don't have to wipe someone's hind end, but you need to make them feel like you are aware of their life (which has more hours in it than basketball) and let them feel like you are a part of it. that doesnt mean going over to the house for dinner; Alford did that too selectively.

But I cannot ignore the repetitive nature of the things I hear on the front related to some of the players not feeling like they have any relationship with their head coach. It makes it easy to transfer out when the going gets rough.

If you don't want to refer to that as being in over your head, that is fine. We can call it stubborn, inflexible, or outdated. Or a few other words.
 
I am starting to think that Lickliter is in over his head IN THE BIG TEN. That doesn't mean I think he is an idiot. I just don't think he's got what it takes to recruit at the level necessary to compete in this league.

I don't want to cheat either, but I am sick of the losing. I would not choose cheating/probation for the sake of some wins, but believe me, I would much rather have a coach who wins that may be a pr!ck than a nice guy that can't get it done. Ideally, we would have a nice guy who can win games, and we used to have that in a man named Tom Davis.

I really only watch Iowa Basketball for one reason - to watch them win. I honestly don't care that much "who" our coach or players are as long as we are staying within the rules and everyone is staying off the police blotter. That may be shallow, but that's how I feel.

I too will be rooting for Iowa to beat Michigan in the BTT. As bad as this season has been, I always hate to the see the season end, and I would rather see the Hawks live to fight another day then to see them go away quietly.
 
I've known many fine men with integrity that have been fired because they were unable to do their jobs well...
 
He's made a ton of money to install a boring system that a majority fans are unhappy with and led us to the worst stretch in Iowa basketball history. What should we do? Tell him he's pretty.

As has been pointed out, he's failing at more than just X's and O's. And his personality doesn't seem to allow him to adapt. Not for the players, not for the fans, not for anyone.

In some ways, momentum is key in a coach's career. Right now, Lick and the Iowa program have no momentum. Without the characteristics to adapt, I have doubts Lick will ever be able to turn this thing around. And that's putting it mildly.
 
burky247 said:
He's made a ton of money to install a boring system that a majority fans are unhappy with and led us to the worst stretch in Iowa basketball history. .
Click to expand...

Everytime I see this it's like a red flag that goes up and says I'm jealous I'm jealous. When Iowa Fball was struggling a bit it was the same thing about KF's salary.

Ultimately Todd Lickliter doesn't set his salary. The market does that for him. Like it or not D1 coaches make millions per year. There are many arguments as to why he needs to go at the end of next year if he doesn't get the job done and his salary wont be among them.
 
DuffMan said:
Everytime I see this it's like a red flag that goes up and says I'm jealous I'm jealous. When Iowa Fball was struggling a bit it was the same thing about KF's salary.
Click to expand...

And every time I see someone bringing up football to try and justify the basketball program it's a red flag that goes up and says "I'm clueless. I'm clueless".
 
Jon,
Are you saying there are kids on the current team that feel they do not have a relationship with Lick? I have been a lick backer. I don't think good things can happen over night but I have said that if we have more players (not including tucker) leave off this years team, I think he needs to be shown the door. He might be on the verge of turning the corner but yet if we have anyone leave after this year, we are right back to where we were 2 years ago.

If the guys on the team do not believe in Lick, that is not good.
 
burky247 said:
And every time I see someone bringing up football to try and justify the basketball program it's a red flag that goes up and says "I'm clueless. I'm clueless".
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I'm not using football to justify anything. I'm saying salary has absolutely no place in this discussion. None. Would anyone be happy with the job Lick is doing if he were making $100,000 a year instead of $1,000,000?
 
DuffMan said:
I'm not using football to justify anything. I'm saying salary has absolutely no place in this discussion. None. Would anyone be happy with the job Lick is doing if he were making $100,000 a year instead of $1,000,000?
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I know I wouldn't. I would still want him gone based solely on his record thusfar.

I think I've gotta side with Duff on this.
 
I think you're unduly hung up on semantics there, Steve. "In over his head" is a common expression meaning only that the demands of the position exceed the skills of its occupant. Ever hear of "The Peter Principle"? Same concept.

"Can't coach his way out of a paper bag" is kind of a silly way to put it, but people are frustrated and some of what they say is going to be over-the-top.

Semantics lessons will not help. It would be nice if people wouldn't make it too personal, but passion is a double-edged sword.
 
DuffMan said:
I'm not using football to justify anything. I'm saying salary has absolutely no place in this discussion. None. Would anyone be happy with the job Lick is doing if he were making $100,000 a year instead of $1,000,000?
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Of course it does Duff. If you are bringing in that much money, you better be prepared to get "PILED ON" if you are underachieving on an unprecedented level. I don't care how much you pay the man as long as he gets results. Heck, with the amount of revenue we are losing we should be able to pay a coach twice as much as we are paying him(assuming he will bring full crowds back into Carver).

The only thing that has absolutely no place in this discussion is you trying to imply I was jealous of Lick because he's rich.
 
JonDMiller said:
I have strong suspicions Todd is the kind of man and person he seems to be. I don't dislike him, and I want him to succeed...because he is the coach of the Iowa basketball team.

There is a lot more about being the head of a program than just what you know about basketball. A lot more. I think Todd is old school in some ways, and I think that is hurting him...communication with his players is one of those areas that I repeatedly hear is lacking.

Some people need to be reaffirmed more than others...some need a dialogue where others do not. As a head of a program, you need to be a little bit of all things to all people...you don't have to wipe someone's hind end, but you need to make them feel like you are aware of their life (which has more hours in it than basketball) and let them feel like you are a part of it. that doesnt mean going over to the house for dinner; Alford did that too selectively.

But I cannot ignore the repetitive nature of the things I hear on the front related to some of the players not feeling like they have any relationship with their head coach. It makes it easy to transfer out when the going gets rough.

If you don't want to refer to that as being in over your head, that is fine. We can call it stubborn, inflexible, or outdated. Or a few other words.
Click to expand...
Jon fantastic post. Head coach at this level is like being a CEO. You surround yourself with folks that have what you don't. Making up for your weaknesses. He has surrounded himself with yes men. Who don't make up for any of his weaknesses. He isn't a recruiter, he seems to be old school in thinking he will get guys that are interested in Iowa...hello Iowa is at rock bottom you are only going to get borderline mid-major type recruits. Guys like Izzo, Tubby, Crean, Painter, to name a few have relationships with their guys...now that doesn't mean you can't scold em chew em etc...but when in a corner those guys need to know you LOVE em. Would do anything for em...I have heard guys from schools like Duke etc that say they LOVE their coach like a DAD...our guys never act like that. Just watch interactions during a game at TO's very telling.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
I know I wouldn't. I would still want him gone based solely on his record thusfar.

I think I've gotta side with Duff on this.
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Well Duff and I aren't really even debating each other. He took exception to one part of my sentence and ignored the rest of the post. And while I also wouldn't be happy with results like this even if he brought in $10,000 a year, he had to know expectations would be higher when he accepted a higher profile position with a huge pay increase. This whole thread is about how people need to "stop piling on Lick". The money he is making is relevant to this topic regardless of how you feel about his contract. It comes with the territory.
 
burky247 said:
If you are bringing in that much money, you better be prepared to get "PILED ON" if you are underachieving on an unprecedented level. I don't care how much you pay the man as long as he gets results. .
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So again if he wans't making that much money he shouldn't be prepared to get "PILED ON"?

Your two statements appear to be contradictions.

Again he's either getting the job done or he isn't. I don't think salary has any place in the discussion unless he's either grossly overpaid for someone in his position or grossly underpaid for someone in his position.

The position of "Head Basketball Coach" for a major D-1 brings with it public scruitiny, the amount the position pays doesn't. To borrow and modify a line from Slick Willie...

"It's the results stupid"
 
I don't have any problem with a school spending big money to get a quality head coach or adding an assistant who is a proven recruiter . The problem at Iowa is that Barta spent the money and we didn't end up with either. In Barta's eyes Lick's COY award was the same as a kid in front of a candy store with a nickle in his pocket. He couldn't wait to spend his money without kicking the tires or checking the horses teeth. If you are going to buy why not buy smart and get your money's worth?
 
He's the head coach of a major university basketball team. We're looking at the worst 3 seasons back to back to back since 1930-32. Are we supposed to be throwing flowery praise his way? His three years have been a massive failure.
 
FreddyBrown said:
I think you're unduly hung up on semantics there, Steve. "In over his head" is a common expression meaning only that the demands of the position exceed the skills of its occupant. Ever hear of "The Peter Principle"? Same concept.

"Can't coach his way out of a paper bag" is kind of a silly way to put it, but people are frustrated and some of what they say is going to be over-the-top.

Semantics lessons will not help. It would be nice if people wouldn't make it too personal, but passion is a double-edged sword.
Click to expand...


+1 I believe this whole thread is hung up on semantics.........Posters basically saying the same thing just in a different way.
 
"I believe he's a man of integrity who tries to do things the right way, unlike other sleazy coaches and programs that we all know about who somehow get 5 star players to come to their play for them. I'd rather be a losing program with integrity than a winning one who cheats."

If we were actually getting anything close to 5 star recruits, no one would be complaining about how we got them. This is just people trying to rationalize how he can't recruit. I really doubt Kentucky fans are wishing they had a coach with more inegrity right now.
 
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