This team is exactly where most thought they would be

homes

homes

Well-Known Member
Including myself. For that, I'm a happy Hawk fan, it's now a good thing to talk about Iowa basketball. The program is on an upward arc. Anyone who says they are not happy with this season should look back at where they thought Iowa would finish. If you had Iowa at 23 wins, 12-6 in the conference, then bully for you. But you'd have been in the minority. The fact that they were in more games than most thought they would be only supports that Iowa basketball is making its way back to relevance, both in the conference and on a national stage; it does not suggest that Iowa's season has been a disappointment. Tantalizingly close in many games, while frustrating in the present, only whets the appetite for better things to come. To cast aspersions on this team/this season/the schedule they played is unfair (and unrealistic). We want more, and maybe we'll get it with a strong run in the BTT, but in the macro, this team is exactly where most thought they would be, which is better than the year before and even better than the year before that - how can that be a negative? Right now, I'd be buying stock in Iowa basketball.
 
Who has said we're not happy where they're at?

I take umbrage with Tavern Hawks who justify the multi under-executing close losses as being "OK" because "we're where we are supposed to be."

That a crap/apologetic argument.
 
I've heard a rumor that they are right where Jon Miller predicted they would be too. Haven't been able to confirm this is true, Jon's not one to bring up his predictions.
 
hawkfan33 said:
I've heard a rumor that they are right where Jon Miller predicted they would be too. Haven't been able to confirm this is true, Jon's not one to bring up his predictions.
Click to expand...

You don't say? Jon sucks at predicting this stuff (see his 2010 football prediction).

/waits for the hammer
 
Seth53 said:
Who has said we're not happy where they're at?

I take umbrage with Tavern Hawks who justify the multi under-executing close losses as being "OK" because "we're where we are supposed to be."

That a crap/apologetic argument.
Click to expand...

This thread again? Ok, I'll bite.

I agree with Seth - I'm happy with the progress and think Fran is doing a great job so far. But that doesn't wipe away the sting of all those close games Iowa let get away late - this season could've easily been so much better than it was. Couple points I like to make about this:

1) I really don't care what the pre-season predictions were. Those were just educated guess about a team none of us had seen play yet. Pre-season picks are rarely accurate, anyway. Take Iowa Football for instance: 2002, 2005, 2006, 2010. None of those seasons ended up the way anyone expected, either good or bad.

2) Bobby Knight took a terrible Texas Tech program and got them into the NCAA Tournament in his very first year as their coach. Ok, I realize that rarely happens, but my point is that there is no hard and fast rule stating how quickly a program can improve.

Again, I'm happy with the progress that is being made: 11-16-20 regular season wins in 3 years. Nice. I hope Fran keeps it up.
 
I think it would be interesting to bump the threads when the non-con schedule was released, I remember people being very split on whether it was a good thing for the team to play such a cupcake schedule.
 
homes said:
Including myself. For that, I'm a happy Hawk fan, it's now a good thing to talk about Iowa basketball. The program is on an upward arc. Anyone who says they are not happy with this season should look back at where they thought Iowa would finish. If you had Iowa at 23 wins, 12-6 in the conference, then bully for you. But you'd have been in the minority. The fact that they were in more games than most thought they would be only supports that Iowa basketball is making its way back to relevance, both in the conference and on a national stage; it does not suggest that Iowa's season has been a disappointment. Tantalizingly close in many games, while frustrating in the present, only whets the appetite for better things to come. To cast aspersions on this team/this season/the schedule they played is unfair (and unrealistic). We want more, and maybe we'll get it with a strong run in the BTT, but in the macro, this team is exactly where most thought they would be, which is better than the year before and even better than the year before that - how can that be a negative? Right now, I'd be buying stock in Iowa basketball.
Click to expand...

Why are you calling me out? What did I ever do to you? I had them at exactly 23 wins and 12-6 but I'm not disappointed at all. I made my prediction assuming there would be injuries...to a key player like Marble. I think we beat Michigan State and Purdue if he's healthy/right. I can't explain away the Nebraska loss...laid an egg. Those are the 3 I had wrong.
 
Doesnt take away the sting of blowing games at Nebraska, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Not to mention the Michigan State game at home.
 
I still think people who can't get over the late losses just don't understand basketball. Good teams keep things close and win at the end all the time.

Great teams or teams that play against crappy teams blow other teams away.

Seriously, that is why people say you only have to watch the last 2 minutes of an NBA game.
 
Late and close losses are a part of any team. People are primarily impatient. Who wants to wait years for a turn around.
 
For some perspective looking at Lute Olson, Crean, Amaker, and Belein. They were 8-16 before lute. AZ won 13 total games in 2 years before his arrival. It's not that easy to find Basketball powers that came from nowhere long term or had it, lost it, and came back. Sure there are others, but these come to mind. We've been on an upward trajectory, but not all school successes have been all years including Lute. Then there are coaches like Rob Judson (who I personally know) who take a miserable team, actually improve it beyond previous success and stumble. NIU has been miserable ever since.
I'm still not convinced Fran will get us where we want to be, but patience is needed.

Iowa (Big Ten Conference) (1974–1983)
1974–1975Iowa10–167–117th
1975–1976Iowa19–109–95th
1976–1977Iowa20–712–64th
1977–1978Iowa12–155–138th
1978–1979Iowa20–813–51stNCAA 1st Round
1979–1980Iowa23–1010–84thNCAA Final Four
1980–1981Iowa21–713–52ndNCAA 1st Round
1981–1982Iowa21–812–62ndNCAA 2nd Round
1982–1983Iowa21–138–8T–2ndNCAA Sweet 16
Iowa:168–9091–71
Arizona (Pacific-10 Conference) (1983–2008)
1983–1984Arizona11–178–108th
1984–1985Arizona21–1012–6T–3rdNCAA 1st Round
1985–1986Arizona23–914–41stNCAA 1st Round
1986–1987Arizona18–1213–52ndNCAA 1st Round
1987–1988Arizona35–317–11stNCAA Final Four

Tom Crean
2008–2009Indiana6–251–1711th
2009–2010Indiana10–214–14T–9th
2010–2011Indiana12–203–1511th
2011–2012Indiana27–911–75thNCAA Sweet Sixteen
2012–2013Indiana26–514–41st

Belien
2002–2003West Virginia14–155–116th West
2003–2004West Virginia17–147–9T-8thNIT 3rd Round
2004–2005West Virginia24–118–8T-7thNCAA Elite Eight
2005–2006West Virginia22–1111–53rdNCAA Sweet Sixteen
2006–2007West Virginia27–99–7T-7thNIT Champions
West Virginia:104–60 (.634)40–40 (.500)
Michigan Wolverines (Big Ten Conference) (2007–present)
2007–2008Michigan10–225–13T-9th
2008–2009Michigan21–149–9T-7thNCAA 2nd Round
2009–2010Michigan15–177–11T-7th
2010–2011Michigan21–149–9T-4thNCAA 3rd Round
2011–2012Michigan24–1013–5T-1stNCAA 2nd Round
2012–2013Michigan23–410–4
Amaker
997–98Seton Hall15–159–93rd (Seven)NIT 1st Round
1998–99Seton Hall15–158–10T–8thNIT 1st Round
1999–00Seton Hall22–1010–6T–4thNCAA Sweet 16
2000–01Seton Hall16–155–116th (West)NIT 1st Round
Seton Hall:68–55 (.553)32–36
Michigan Wolverines (Big Ten Conference) (2001–2007)
2001–02Michigan11–185–11T–8th
2002–03Michigan17–1310–6T–3rd
2003–04Michigan23–118–8T–5thNIT Champions
2004–05Michigan13–184–129th
2005–06Michigan22–118–8T-6thNIT Runner-Up
2006–07Michigan22–138–8T–7thNIT 2nd Round
Judson
SeasonTeamOverallConferenceStandingPostseason
Northern Illinois (MAC) (2001–2007)
2001-02Northern Illinois12-168-104th (MAC-W)
2002-03Northern Illinois17-1411-72nd (MAC-W)
2003-04Northern Illinois10-205-136th (MAC-W)
2004-05Northern Illinois11-177-115th (MAC-W)
2005-06Northern Illinois17-1112-61st (MAC-W)
2006-07Northern Illinois7-234-126th (MAC-W)
 
Going into the season I expected that we might lay an egg or two. We are a young team. I am very pleased with the way they performed this year, they have surpassed my expectations overall with where they are. However, after last year I expected that they would surprise somebody by pulling off an upset over one of the top teams in the conference. So even though I'm pleased with where we are and how competitive we've been, those close losses still sting just as bad. Hopefully we get that upset in the second round and make the country take notice that the hawks are back.
 
Going to my first game this season against NE, I like what I saw. Defense was generally pretty good. Yes NE hit a load of 3's but most were contested pretty good. Offense was OK, seemed to me some of the guys are hesitant to pull the trigger on open shots. Woodbury has potential if he develops some go to post moves including a jump hook. He had that all day yesterday but really never used it. One obvious thing to improve on is locking down the runs they let other teams go on. Ex: should have blown out NE by 25 instead of letting them back in the game early in the 2nd half.
 
hawkfan33 said:
I've heard a rumor that they are right where Jon Miller predicted they would be too. Haven't been able to confirm this is true, Jon's not one to bring up his predictions.
Click to expand...

Jon showed his pre season predictions two days ago. He had them 20-11 with a 9-9 conference record.
 
In thinking more about this, did this team overachieve or underachieve? Sure their record is about what I thought it would be before the season started, and they have exceeded my expectations on their development, however I would say they underachieved.
Just like preseason polls are meaningless, my expectations before a season begins are meaningless, especially with a young team because you really don't know how we'll they will perform.
as this season has gone on, they have proven that they are a really good team. The thing they do team wise are consistent (individually often not the case). They defend well, rebound well, assist to fg ratio is excellent. They consistently shoot the 3 poorly. That is who they are as a team. The fact that they have held leads very late in games against top teams nationally more often than not prove that they are a good team, especially when you consider that these were often with injured players or major contributors not pulling their weight. Since they have proven to be a good team the fact that they have given away so many games the way they have makes me say they have underachieved. My preseason expectations should not determine if they did or not. They set the bar during the season and once they set it it should not be lowered because I or anyone else thought before the season began that they would be a 19 or 20 win team heading to the NIT. Truth is, the way this team proved they can play, they are a team that should be dancing. If they don't get in, they underachieved.
 
HawksMN said:
Going to my first game this season against NE, I like what I saw. Defense was generally pretty good. Yes NE hit a load of 3's but most were contested pretty good.
Click to expand...

When considering just how bad their inside games is, no way were they contested pretty good.
 
1977Hawkeye said:
This thread again? Ok, I'll bite.

I agree with Seth - I'm happy with the progress and think Fran is doing a great job so far. But that doesn't wipe away the sting of all those close games Iowa let get away late - this season could've easily been so much better than it was. Couple points I like to make about this:

1) I really don't care what the pre-season predictions were. Those were just educated guess about a team none of us had seen play yet. Pre-season picks are rarely accurate, anyway. Take Iowa Football for instance: 2002, 2005, 2006, 2010. None of those seasons ended up the way anyone expected, either good or bad.

2) Bobby Knight took a terrible Texas Tech program and got them into the NCAA Tournament in his very first year as their coach. Ok, I realize that rarely happens, but my point is that there is no hard and fast rule stating how quickly a program can improve.

Again, I'm happy with the progress that is being made: 11-16-20 regular season wins in 3 years. Nice. I hope Fran keeps it up.
Click to expand...

Texas Tech was in far better shape as a program, they weren't a cellar dweller and I believe there were a lot of people in Texas upset that Dickey was fired because they had just went to the NCAA tournament when he was fired. Not a good comparison there.

I am happy Iowa got to 20 wins, but upset with their inability to close out some games that should have gotten them to 11 or 12 wins (MSU, Nebbraska, Purdue and Wisconsin). Those were all games Iowa had control of and tinkled down their leg. It wasn't youth that cost them, it was the inability of Iowa's returnee's to close out games (not Nebraska, that was total team failure).

Fran has built the program for sustainability, guys like Ingram and Meyer should be solid contributors in their careers, but it is not all bad that they weren't major contributors this season. When you get guys that are potential under the radar kids, let them develop and see how it all turns out. Guys being pressed into action because the program sucks is far different than guys like Gesell/Woodbury/Clemmons who have been solid all season with some highs and lows, but they aren't out there looking like they don't belong, quite the contrast to a few years ago.
 
ILHawk said:
For some perspective looking at Lute Olson, Crean, Amaker, and Belein. They were 8-16 before lute. AZ won 13 total games in 2 years before his arrival. It's not that easy to find Basketball powers that came from nowhere long term or had it, lost it, and came back. Sure there are others, but these come to mind. We've been on an upward trajectory, but not all school successes have been all years including Lute. Then there are coaches like Rob Judson (who I personally know) who take a miserable team, actually improve it beyond previous success and stumble. NIU has been miserable ever since.
I'm still not convinced Fran will get us where we want to be, but patience is needed.

Iowa (Big Ten Conference) (1974–1983)
1974–1975Iowa10–167–117th
1975–1976Iowa19–109–95th
1976–1977Iowa20–712–64th
1977–1978Iowa12–155–138th
1978–1979Iowa20–813–51stNCAA 1st Round
1979–1980Iowa23–1010–84thNCAA Final Four
1980–1981Iowa21–713–52ndNCAA 1st Round
1981–1982Iowa21–812–62ndNCAA 2nd Round
1982–1983Iowa21–138–8T–2ndNCAA Sweet 16
Iowa:168–9091–71
Arizona (Pacific-10 Conference) (1983–2008)
1983–1984Arizona11–178–108th
1984–1985Arizona21–1012–6T–3rdNCAA 1st Round
1985–1986Arizona23–914–41stNCAA 1st Round
1986–1987Arizona18–1213–52ndNCAA 1st Round
1987–1988Arizona35–317–11stNCAA Final Four

Tom Crean
2008–2009Indiana6–251–1711th
2009–2010Indiana10–214–14T–9th
2010–2011Indiana12–203–1511th
2011–2012Indiana27–911–75thNCAA Sweet Sixteen
2012–2013Indiana26–514–41st
Belien
2002–2003West Virginia14–155–116th West
2003–2004West Virginia17–147–9T-8thNIT 3rd Round
2004–2005West Virginia24–118–8T-7thNCAA Elite Eight
2005–2006West Virginia22–1111–53rdNCAA Sweet Sixteen
2006–2007West Virginia27–99–7T-7thNIT Champions
West Virginia:104–60 (.634)40–40 (.500)
Michigan Wolverines (Big Ten Conference) (2007–present)
2007–2008Michigan10–225–13T-9th
2008–2009Michigan21–149–9T-7thNCAA 2nd Round
2009–2010Michigan15–177–11T-7th
2010–2011Michigan21–149–9T-4thNCAA 3rd Round
2011–2012Michigan24–1013–5T-1stNCAA 2nd Round
2012–2013Michigan23–410–4
Amaker
997–98Seton Hall15–159–93rd (Seven)NIT 1st Round
1998–99Seton Hall15–158–10T–8thNIT 1st Round
1999–00Seton Hall22–1010–6T–4thNCAA Sweet 16
2000–01Seton Hall16–155–116th (West)NIT 1st Round
Seton Hall:68–55 (.553)32–36
Michigan Wolverines (Big Ten Conference) (2001–2007)
2001–02Michigan11–185–11T–8th
2002–03Michigan17–1310–6T–3rd
2003–04Michigan23–118–8T–5thNIT Champions
2004–05Michigan13–184–129th
2005–06Michigan22–118–8T-6thNIT Runner-Up
2006–07Michigan22–138–8T–7thNIT 2nd Round
Judson
SeasonTeamOverallConferenceStandingPostseason
Northern Illinois (MAC) (2001–2007)
2001-02Northern Illinois12-168-104th (MAC-W)
2002-03Northern Illinois17-1411-72nd (MAC-W)
2003-04Northern Illinois10-205-136th (MAC-W)
2004-05Northern Illinois11-177-115th (MAC-W)
2005-06Northern Illinois17-1112-61st (MAC-W)
2006-07Northern Illinois7-234-126th (MAC-W)
Click to expand...

Michigan lost to Ohio in the first round last year.
 
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