This team is exactly where most thought they would be

hawkfan33 said:
The "first round" is the play in games. The "second round" is actually the first round. It's a stupid naming convention but that's how the NCAA does it.
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You use the word stupid and other related words a lot.

Insecure people do that a lot.
 
sportstalent said:
Texas Tech was in far better shape as a program, they weren't a cellar dweller and I believe there were a lot of people in Texas upset that Dickey was fired because they had just went to the NCAA tournament when he was fired. Not a good comparison there.

I am happy Iowa got to 20 wins, but upset with their inability to close out some games that should have gotten them to 11 or 12 wins (MSU, Nebbraska, Purdue and Wisconsin). Those were all games Iowa had control of and tinkled down their leg. It wasn't youth that cost them, it was the inability of Iowa's returnee's to close out games (not Nebraska, that was total team failure).

Fran has built the program for sustainability, guys like Ingram and Meyer should be solid contributors in their careers, but it is not all bad that they weren't major contributors this season. When you get guys that are potential under the radar kids, let them develop and see how it all turns out. Guys being pressed into action because the program sucks is far different than guys like Gesell/Woodbury/Clemmons who have been solid all season with some highs and lows, but they aren't out there looking like they don't belong, quite the contrast to a few years ago.
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I beg to differ:

James Dickey:
Season Team Overall Conference Standing
1996–97 Texas Tech 19–9 10–6 12th
1997–98 Texas Tech 13–14 7–9 T–7th
1998–99 Texas Tech 13–17 5–11 11th
1999–00 Texas Tech 12–16 3–13 12th
2000–01 Texas Tech 9–19 3–13 12th

Bob Knight:
2001–2002 Texas Tech 23–9 10–6 T–3rd
2002–2003 Texas Tech 22–13 6–10 T–7th
2003–2004 Texas Tech 23–11 9–7 T–5th
2004–2005 Texas Tech 22–11 10–6 4th
2005–2006 Texas Tech 15–17 6–10 T–7th
2006–2007 Texas Tech 21–13 9–7 5th
2007–2008 Texas Tech 12–8* 3–3* T–6th*

Not a cellar dweller? I think you must have been thinking of some other program.. TT finished 11th and 12th (in a 12 team league) his final three years, so don't know how much lower they could have gone.. In fact, only one year in Dickey's tenure did they finish higher than 11th... I can't quite vouch for what kind of talent was left behind, but Knight came in and turned that program around instantly.

I agree with the rest of your post though, by the way.
 
herkymurk said:
In thinking more about this, did this team overachieve or underachieve? Sure their record is about what I thought it would be before the season started, and they have exceeded my expectations on their development, however I would say they underachieved.
Just like preseason polls are meaningless, my expectations before a season begins are meaningless, especially with a young team because you really don't know how we'll they will perform.
as this season has gone on, they have proven that they are a really good team. The thing they do team wise are consistent (individually often not the case). They defend well, rebound well, assist to fg ratio is excellent. They consistently shoot the 3 poorly. That is who they are as a team. The fact that they have held leads very late in games against top teams nationally more often than not prove that they are a good team, especially when you consider that these were often with injured players or major contributors not pulling their weight. Since they have proven to be a good team the fact that they have given away so many games the way they have makes me say they have underachieved. My preseason expectations should not determine if they did or not. They set the bar during the season and once they set it it should not be lowered because I or anyone else thought before the season began that they would be a 19 or 20 win team heading to the NIT. Truth is, the way this team proved they can play, they are a team that should be dancing. If they don't get in, they underachieved.
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Expectations are only meaningless if you don't have any. Otherwise, they serve as the bar against which achievement is based - were they below, at, or above the bar. This team reached the bar, and even exceeded it to the extent they were that close to winning several games they weren't favored to win. Next year, my expectations for this team will be greater. The problem, as completely subjective fans, is the tendency for us to keep changing the bar as the season progresses - thereby ultimately not fulfilling expectations unless a championship is won. I don't see that as underachievement, it's us moving the goal post (or to keep in the basketball vernacular, the rim height).
 
1977Hawkeye said:
I beg to differ:

James Dickey:
Season Team Overall Conference Standing
1996–97 Texas Tech 19–9 10–6 12th
1997–98 Texas Tech 13–14 7–9 T–7th
1998–99 Texas Tech 13–17 5–11 11th
1999–00 Texas Tech 12–16 3–13 12th
2000–01 Texas Tech 9–19 3–13 12th
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Okay, I will retract that, but I know there were a lot of unhappy folks when Dickey was fired and Knight was hired.
 
Tschroeder13 said:
Jon showed his pre season predictions two days ago. He had them 20-11 with a 9-9 conference record.
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But I believe he predicted 7th-8th in the conference. We're 6th. And if we don't inexplicably lose a 19-pt lead at NE, we're 10-8. BTW, I suspect that had to do with Gesell's injury. We couldn't adjust at the time. Anyway, Jon did get the B1G record eerily right but we still placed better than he expected. I just hope he's wrong about not making the tourney.
 
sportstalent said:
Okay, I will retract that, but I know there were a lot of unhappy folks when Dickey was fired and Knight was hired.
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A little bit more insight. It sounds like Dickey ended up in a tough situation though no fault of his own.. So maybe some folks thought that Dickey was doing a good job regardless of the record.

The Raiders moved to the Big 12 for the 1996–97 season, and appeared to pick up right where they left off with a solid 19–9 season. It was discovered during the inaugural Big 12 basketball tournament, however, that two players were academically ineligible. Hours after the team's first-round game, Texas Tech announced that it was withdrawing from postseason consideration and forfeiting its entire conference schedule. The Raiders had lost that game, and would have had to forfeit it if they had won.

A subsequent investigation revealed massive violations dating back to 1990 in men's basketball and nine other sports (though Dickey himself was not personally implicated). As a result, the NCAA stripped Tech of its two NCAA tournament wins in 1996 and docked it nine scholarships over four years.[SUP][2][/SUP] The lost scholarships were too much for Dickey to overcome, and he tallied four straight losing seasons before being fired in 2001.

He was announced as the head coach of the Houston Cougars on April 1, 2010.[SUP][3][/SUP]
 
I don't see how we compare to any of these. Iowa went 14-0 in conference 3 years before Lute got here. Crean took over a program devastated by NCAA violations. Amaker also dealt with sanctions, but Michigan won the conference tournament three years before he arrived. Michigan had won 22 in each of the two years before Beilein took over. Northern Illinois is in the MAC. The Iowa program of the past few years seems to share nothing with any of these, and I don't know what we're supposed to gather from the numbers you've presented.

ILHawk said:
For some perspective looking at Lute Olson, Crean, Amaker, and Belein. They were 8-16 before lute. AZ won 13 total games in 2 years before his arrival. It's not that easy to find Basketball powers that came from nowhere long term or had it, lost it, and came back. Sure there are others, but these come to mind. We've been on an upward trajectory, but not all school successes have been all years including Lute. Then there are coaches like Rob Judson (who I personally know) who take a miserable team, actually improve it beyond previous success and stumble. NIU has been miserable ever since.
I'm still not convinced Fran will get us where we want to be, but patience is needed.

Iowa (Big Ten Conference) (1974–1983)
1974–1975Iowa10–167–117th
1975–1976Iowa19–109–95th
1976–1977Iowa20–712–64th
1977–1978Iowa12–155–138th
1978–1979Iowa20–813–51stNCAA 1st Round
1979–1980Iowa23–1010–84thNCAA Final Four
1980–1981Iowa21–713–52ndNCAA 1st Round
1981–1982Iowa21–812–62ndNCAA 2nd Round
1982–1983Iowa21–138–8T–2ndNCAA Sweet 16
Iowa:168–9091–71
Arizona (Pacific-10 Conference) (1983–2008)
1983–1984Arizona11–178–108th
1984–1985Arizona21–1012–6T–3rdNCAA 1st Round
1985–1986Arizona23–914–41stNCAA 1st Round
1986–1987Arizona18–1213–52ndNCAA 1st Round
1987–1988Arizona35–317–11stNCAA Final Four

Tom Crean
2008–2009Indiana6–251–1711th
2009–2010Indiana10–214–14T–9th
2010–2011Indiana12–203–1511th
2011–2012Indiana27–911–75thNCAA Sweet Sixteen
2012–2013Indiana26–514–41st

Belien
2002–2003West Virginia14–155–116th West
2003–2004West Virginia17–147–9T-8thNIT 3rd Round
2004–2005West Virginia24–118–8T-7thNCAA Elite Eight
2005–2006West Virginia22–1111–53rdNCAA Sweet Sixteen
2006–2007West Virginia27–99–7T-7thNIT Champions
West Virginia:104–60 (.634)40–40 (.500)
Michigan Wolverines (Big Ten Conference) (2007–present)
2007–2008Michigan10–225–13T-9th
2008–2009Michigan21–149–9T-7thNCAA 2nd Round
2009–2010Michigan15–177–11T-7th
2010–2011Michigan21–149–9T-4thNCAA 3rd Round
2011–2012Michigan24–1013–5T-1stNCAA 2nd Round
2012–2013Michigan23–410–4
Amaker
997–98Seton Hall15–159–93rd (Seven)NIT 1st Round
1998–99Seton Hall15–158–10T–8thNIT 1st Round
1999–00Seton Hall22–1010–6T–4thNCAA Sweet 16
2000–01Seton Hall16–155–116th (West)NIT 1st Round
Seton Hall:68–55 (.553)32–36
Michigan Wolverines (Big Ten Conference) (2001–2007)
2001–02Michigan11–185–11T–8th
2002–03Michigan17–1310–6T–3rd
2003–04Michigan23–118–8T–5thNIT Champions
2004–05Michigan13–184–129th
2005–06Michigan22–118–8T-6thNIT Runner-Up
2006–07Michigan22–138–8T–7thNIT 2nd Round
Judson
SeasonTeamOverallConferenceStandingPostseason
Northern Illinois (MAC) (2001–2007)
2001-02Northern Illinois12-168-104th (MAC-W)
2002-03Northern Illinois17-1411-72nd (MAC-W)
2003-04Northern Illinois10-205-136th (MAC-W)
2004-05Northern Illinois11-177-115th (MAC-W)
2005-06Northern Illinois17-1112-61st (MAC-W)
2006-07Northern Illinois7-234-126th (MAC-W)
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volhawk50 said:
I don't see how we compare to any of these. Iowa went 14-0 in conference 3 years before Lute got here. Crean took over a program devastated by NCAA violations. Amaker also dealt with sanctions, but Michigan won the conference tournament three years before he arrived. Michigan had won 22 in each of the two years before Beilein took over. Northern Illinois is in the MAC. The Iowa program of the past few years seems to share nothing with any of these, and I don't know what we're supposed to gather from the numbers you've presented.
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There aren't many comparables to Iowa's situation. My point only was that we all want to dance really bad. There will be ups and downs.
 
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