This is going to get messy

[99topdawg]

I did have to borrow all of my college money. I had to decide whether or not to play baseball or work to help pay my college (was not legal to have a job and play). I chose to play and had 20 years of loans, even though I had academic and athletic scholarship money. Had rent, loan payments, and a $1400 per month salary. Wasn't able to infest in an IRA until I was 30 so I'll have half of what I could have had.

For this reason, I couldn't come around to the fact that these people are getting a a full ride plus a stipend. Then I realized a few things. I'm an asshole for thinking that others should get shit on because I got shit on. Along with that, sports in college is a full-time job no matter what level it is so why not get paid for doing a job. It's a business that earns money and the athletes are the employees. I don't know of another business that gets free labor to be the frontmen and do all of the work. If I'm Chuck Long and can make a company money by saying that I chuck it long so buy an Atari so you don't suck at pong, he should've gotten paid as a person doing a service for a company. It's just common sense. I honestly don't care that the NC double assholes get billions or that schools make millions of dollars in tickets, concessions, etc. off these guys. They wouldn't if there weren't players. They wouldn't have concessions if it weren't for concession workers who get paid for their service to make the game a better product. Security guards, ticket takers, PA announcers, scoreboard operators and so many others get paid to put on a product so why shouldn't the most important people get paid. Coaches get millions to put a good product on the field. The players? The only argument against it is because that's the way it's always been.

We needed a QB and paid good money for Cade because he was needed. Even as a math teacher I can go to a different school, tell them I'll come work for them for a certain amount of money, even say I'll come if I don't have to go to meetings. If they say yes, I may accept. I'm sure this is the case in nearly all professions. Want more money and better conditions? Go find them or deal with it.

Now, off my soapbox and time to get ready to earn my pennies.

 

[kicker22]

I did have to borrow all of my college money. I had to decide whether or not to play baseball or work to help pay my college (was not legal to have a job and play). I chose to play and had 20 years of loans, even though I had academic and athletic scholarship money. Had rent, loan payments, and a $1400 per month salary. Wasn't able to infest in an IRA until I was 30 so I'll have half of what I could have had.

For this reason, I couldn't come around to the fact that these people are getting a a full ride plus a stipend. Then I realized a few things. I'm an asshole for thinking that others should get shit on because I got shit on. Along with that, sports in college is a full-time job no matter what level it is so why not get paid for doing a job. It's a business that earns money and the athletes are the employees. I don't know of another business that gets free labor to be the frontmen and do all of the work. If I'm Chuck Long and can make a company money by saying that I chuck it long so buy an Atari so you don't suck at pong, he should've gotten paid as a person doing a service for a company. It's just common sense. I honestly don't care that the NC double assholes get billions or that schools make millions of dollars in tickets, concessions, etc. off these guys. They wouldn't if there weren't players. They wouldn't have concessions if it weren't for concession workers who get paid for their service to make the game a better product. Security guards, ticket takers, PA announcers, scoreboard operators and so many others get paid to put on a product so why shouldn't the most important people get paid. Coaches get millions to put a good product on the field. The players? The only argument against it is because that's the way it's always been.

We needed a QB and paid good money for Cade because he was needed. Even as a math teacher I can go to a different school, tell them I'll come work for them for a certain amount of money, even say I'll come if I don't have to go to meetings. If they say yes, I may accept. I'm sure this is the case in nearly all professions. Want more money and better conditions? Go find them or deal with it.

Now, off my soapbox and time to get ready to earn my pennies.

I think you're absolutely right. While many of the arguments are based on the fact the athletes are getting every thing they need to benefit in terms of free education, resources, etc... the big picture is that college athletics is a business and these athletes have the skills and intangibles that no one else has and are the best at what they do. They are the heart and sole of a billion dollar industry and generate millions to the universities they represent. Without them there is no product and regardless of whether or not we agree with NIL or how it is being used as it was originally intended; these athletes are entitled to profit from an industry that has profited off them from day one.

 

[DrKnipe]

The NCAA did this to itself back in the 80s and now it finally has to pay the piper. And I love it.

Remember the only people mad about it are 50+ year old affluent white guys who've never met the athletes participating and have no vested interest, but who want said athletes to entertain them (effectively) for free like court jesters under a set of rules that they (old white dudes) get to set.

Funny enough the people mad about this tend to be conservatives who want free market and limited governance, except when it comes to their entertainment.

You folks pissed about this are no different (or less hypocritical) than some tree hugger celebrity whining about carbon emissions and then hopping on his or her private jet 8 times a month.

It's hilarious. Bring the thunder, triggered people. I'm waiting.

Way to insult the largest segment of your site traffic

 

[dagdaj]

I am not sure college football is becoming any less asymmetrical, however. There are 125+ FBS teams, and a shocking few have actually had a realistic chance at a championship over the past couple decades:

View attachment 10557

Are these developments going to make things any worse than they have been?

I just don't know. My gut says, 'more parity' and I can make a sensible argument. Excellent players who are not playing at the schools on the list because there's someone even better, go and become standouts at Iowas/Wisconsins/etc.

But, I can also say it won't really change the above chart. If a good Iowa team (not the current one) finds itself in need of a QB and gets one, Iowa has a chance of winning 8...9....or even 10 games. If Alabama is in need of a QB, and gets one....they go from winning 8...9...or even 10 games to going to (and winning) the playoffs. Again.

I'm in the 50s age group. It doesn't make me mad. But it is part of the new landscape of college football that worries me. The ever increasing importance of the championship. I'm fine with the kids getting money. I don't even mind the wheeling and dealing they do. But the drip drip drip towards this feeling of "professional sport with the be-all end-all championship" is overall bad for college football.

I want to root for my team, and my team to have relevance. As we go further and further down this path, it's only those fans of just 10% of the entirety of the NCAA (your chart above) that will get that. This is what I fear. With college enrollment dropping and the generational shift towards the first time in history (in the US and indeed worldwide) where we have and inversion and wind up with more older people than younger people......massive societal change is on the horizon. I'm talking MASSIVE. There's already signs of it, but just on the periphery. It's only going to intensify over the next decade or two when the real depopulation bomb goes off.

I just don't want to lose the mystique and magic of college football. It's a lot like British Royal Family. I mean, there's some problems there and it's far from perfect. But it's also pretty magical in it's history, pageantry, and ethereal mystique. I don't wanna lose it. I mean, I figure I got another 20 years before I don't remember my own name. I just hope football lasts long enough for me to not care or I'm farting dust.

 

[thedukeofearl]

I am not sure college football is becoming any less asymmetrical, however. There are 125+ FBS teams, and a shocking few have actually had a realistic chance at a championship over the past couple decades:

View attachment 10557

Are these developments going to make things any worse than they have been?

If one's team is South of the Mason-Dixon Line, the possibilities of playing for a National Championship are increased by thousandfolds

 

[Grady]

"I want to root for my team, and my team to have relevance."
Exhibit A for keeping Divisions within each conference.
With a couple weeks remaining this past season, there were 4 or more BTen West teams still in the hunt for a division and BTen title. Next year, given the same records, there will be zero teams of those 4 with anything to play for in the BTen. ZERO.
Which matches the interest level of hundreds of thousands of those teams' fans next season at the same time.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Way to insult the largest segment of your site traffic

Fry gets no money from this site. Nor Joy. I think his secret goal is to grind everyone down so they all leave the site one by one. And then he can turn the lights off on the site, having destroyed its soul brick by brick. Luckily, old white men are stubborn and fear change, so Fry's dream will be difficult to achieve.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Some really good analysis and discussion here.

The entire landscape of college athletics is rapidly changing right in front of our eyes. The comfort level each of us has with that largely depends upon some core factors, including:

1. Our demographic as Fry pointed out. The passion for college football in particular took off in the 20s and 30s, and went into orbit with the Baby Boomer and Gen-X generations. Interest level has began to wain slowly over the past 20 years or so. Many smaller schools have already jettisoned their football programs. It's hard to watch and accept for many of us, but it's the reality, and it's going to get worse.

2. Our own personal biases and belief systems. Some will view this from a very traditionalist standpoint and stubbornly lament the changes. Others will see this as a natural progression of what is right and equitable and have an easier time rolling with it, or perhaps even rejoice over it.

Like many I presume, I hear both sides in my head. Admittedly, I have an emotional attachment to the traditional aspects of college sports and changes are painful to accept, but I've also been in favor of the concept of players being able to profit from NIL for years. It's morally and legally the right thing to do.

I'm hoping but not optimistic that a reasonable balance can be struck - student athletes enjoying the liberties and freedoms to profit from their abilities, combined with a system that somehow maintains the construct of proudly representing an alma mater as something bigger than yourself, and something you can always look back upon with a sense of school pride and accomplishment. That may sound corny, but for many that's what makes college athletics special.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Fry gets no money from this site. Nor Joy. I think his secret goal is to grind everyone down so they all leave the site one by one. And then he can turn the lights off on the site, having destroyed its soul brick by brick. Luckily, old white men are stubborn and fear change, so Fry's dream will be difficult to achieve.

Fry isn't the reason, but I'm so convinced this forum is soon going to be abolished or radically changed I recently changed my avatar to reveal my true identity before said forum rides into the sunset.

It's not Fry, it's apathy. And people with busy lives. Both have led to massive decline in participation in recent game threads and I'm as guilty as anyone. I don't have the time, or in some cases the interest, to watch an entire football or basketball game anymore, let alone keep up with a live game thread on my tablet. Especially when they now have the technical means to catch it on our own time. And when a lively debate does ensue people go back to the same tired old three or four sticking points about Kirk or Fran.

 

[HuckFinn]

Fry isn't the reason, but I'm so convinced this forum is soon going to be abolished or radically changed I recently changed my avatar to reveal my true identity before said forum rides into the sunset.

It's not Fry, it's apathy. And people with busy lives. Both have led to massive decline in participation in recent game threads and I'm as guilty as anyone. I don't have the time, or in some cases the interest, to watch an entire football or basketball game anymore, let alone keep up with a live game thread on my tablet. Especially when they now have the technical means to catch it on our own time. And when a lively debate does ensue people go back to the same tired old three or four sticking points about Kirk or Fran.

Interesting. I am old, retired, an avid Hawkeye fan who attended his first Iowa football game 70 years ago. I think we arrived on horseback.
Grew up in Iowa. Grad student at Iowa. Live in WI, but “never a badger.” I read constantly. Variety of literature. Season ticks for football and men’s bb.
I live alone and HN gives me some Hawk fans to talk to about Iowa sports. Will likely hang around until HN goes away. I get impatient with the repeated call to fire the coaches, so I can’t help but have some fun in response. Fun. That’s it.

BTW, before Fry took over as moderator, I had him on ignore, mostly due to his propensity for cynicism and personal insults. When he was announced as moderator, I thought someone was messing with us. For real, this!

Now, I am glad he is here and enjoy his contributions.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Now, I am glad he is here and enjoy his contributions.

Same. He is a pain in the ass, but he somehow grows on you. Like George Castanza.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Same. He is a pain in the ass, but he somehow grows on you. Like George Castanza.

Like a virus.

 

[jo12208]

The NCAA did this to itself back in the 80s and now it finally has to pay the piper. And I love it.

Remember the only people mad about it are 50+ year old affluent white guys who've never met the athletes participating and have no vested interest, but who want said athletes to entertain them (effectively) for free like court jesters under a set of rules that they (old white dudes) get to set.

Funny enough the people mad about this tend to be conservatives who want free market and limited governance, except when it comes to their entertainment.

You folks pissed about this are no different (or less hypocritical) than some tree hugger celebrity whining about carbon emissions and then hopping on his or her private jet 8 times a month.

It's hilarious. Bring the thunder, triggered people. I'm waiting.

You don't know what you are talking about. Utter nonsense.

 

[Fryowa]

You don't know what you are talking about. Utter nonsense.

Please then, enlighten us with your knowledge…

 

[Fryowa]

Way to insult the largest segment of your site traffic

It’s not my site, and I get no compensation for anything. Never have, never will. It’s been offered.

I’m just a poster same as you.