This coaching staff is a total failure.

SteveGarvey1 said:
Listing all the bad losses but not listing any of the big wins does present an inaccurate picture of the coaching staff.
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What "big wins?" The only wins that matter in my calculus are (1) postseason wins in BCS games/CFB playoffs; and (2) B1G Championship games. What else matters? Okay, I didn't list the Minnesota game in '02 in which we clinched the B1G Championship, but I listed the only other game that meets my criteria - Georgia Tech '09. Beating an undefeated Penn State team during the regular season as a mediocre team, while nice, and while I'll gladly take it, doesn't count as a big win. This is like saying that the Golden State Warrios had "big wins" over the Cavaliers in the regular season to justify their postseason loss. Good programs and good teams think with a winning mentality.
 
Ickehawk said:
Stanford- Didn't 'game plan' McCaffery? lol.....We just blew coverage on the first play. Nothing to do with the coaches. They can't play the game for them..........
Iowa St.- How did KF 'let' them make a comeback??? Our dumbass QB had his wrist taped to tight and screwed up...
Northwestern- Um, that wasn't a 'naked' bootleg, Morse TOTALLY blew his assignment and allowed the end to go untouched. We ran the same play against Iowa St. last year and CJ ran for how many ever yards....Oh, and we ran the exact same play from our 8 yd. line against Indiana in 2009 and we hit McNutt for a 92 yd. TD...Oh, and we ran the exact same play against Michigan that year and hit Moeki for a TD, etc.....Try to know what the hell you are talking about when you 'cry', would ya.............
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This is rich. Coming from the guy who wants to put the blame on Desmond King of all people for our troubles this year.
 
Ickehawk said:
They didn't. Was supposed to be bracketed. Fisher blew coverage.............
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He slipped...is that why you think he blew the coverage? They outside release the split end to that side to give McCaffery an option route to work 1 on 1. Did something come out that there was supposed to be bracket coverage on that play? I don't remember seeing anything but I've been wrong before.

I will say that Fisher did take a few more steps towards the trips look than I would have expected.
 
STLhawkeye20 said:
What "big wins?" The only wins that matter in my calculus are (1) postseason wins in BCS games/CFB playoffs; and (2) B1G Championship games. What else matters? Okay, I didn't list the Minnesota game in '02 in which we clinched the B1G Championship, but I listed the only other game that meets my criteria - Georgia Tech '09. Beating an undefeated Penn State team during the regular season as a mediocre team, while nice, and while I'll gladly take it, doesn't count as a big win. This is like saying that the Golden State Warrios had "big wins" over the Cavaliers in the regular season to justify their postseason loss. Good programs and good teams think with a winning mentality.
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When the coaching staff gets things right and we win, it's a lot less noteworthy than when they screw up and lose. Kirk won the Orange Bowl, has beaten Penn St. more than a few times, Michigan the same, he beat tOSU in '04 I think, Florida, South Carolina, and more.

I agree that they've under-performed in a lot of the games you mentioned but you have to look at the other side of the ledger before you call them a "total failure".
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
When the coaching staff gets things right and we win, it's a lot less noteworthy than when they screw up and lose. Kirk won the Orange Bowl, has beaten Penn St. more than a few times, Michigan the same, he beat tOSU in '04 I think, Florida, South Carolina, and more.

I agree that they've under-performed in a lot of the games you mentioned but you have to look at the other side of the ledger before you call them a "total failure".
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I mentioned the wins over SEC teams (Florida, South Carolina, LSU) in the first paragraph of my opening post. Don't get me wrong, these are all really strong wins over good SEC opponents, and great memories, but to me it's like winning a "loser's consolation" prize.

That's just my personal opinion.

Even the LSU win wasn't some noteworthy effort or game plan from the coaching staff, it literally resulted from Ferentz' inability to manage the clock correctly.

You are correct that we have a number of great regular season wins over Penn St., Ohio State, Michigan throughout the years, but again, what good are these wins if you can't follow up and do something special with your season? Kudos to the staff for having Penn State's number for a string of years, but the failure to parlay those wins into meaningful success is what diminishes the quality of those wins to me.

It's not like I'm conveniently ignoring a Rose Bowl win in my argument. I think I'm giving credit to the staff for positives we've had over the years, and I am taking the positives into account in my analysis.

If the CEO is running the company into the ground, with a few good quarters here and there, he's still a "total failure" for running the company into the ground.
 
STLhawkeye20 said:
I mentioned the wins over SEC teams (Florida, South Carolina, LSU) in the first paragraph of my opening post. Don't get me wrong, these are all really strong wins over good SEC opponents, and great memories, but to me it's like winning a "loser's consolation" prize.

That's just my personal opinion.

Even the LSU win wasn't some noteworthy effort or game plan from the coaching staff, it literally resulted from Ferentz' inability to manage the clock correctly.

You are correct that we have a number of great regular season wins over Penn St., Ohio State, Michigan throughout the years, but again, what good are these wins if you can't follow up and do something special with your season? Kudos to the staff for having Penn State's number for a string of years, but the failure to parlay those wins into meaningful success is what diminishes the quality of those wins to me.

It's not like I'm conveniently ignoring a Rose Bowl win in my argument. I think I'm giving credit to the staff for positives we've had over the years, and I am taking the positives into account in my analysis.

If the CEO is running the company into the ground, with a few good quarters here and there, he's still a "total failure" for running the company into the ground.
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I agree with most of what you have said. Especially the CEO analogy.

People have gotten used to this cycle we've been on for some time. Thats why they are so compelled to defend it.
 
VTHawk said:
I agree with most of what you have said. Especially the CEO analogy.

People have gotten used to this cycle we've been on for some time. Thats why they are so compelled to defend it.
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I think it also comes from low expectations. People who have experienced the "dark years" of Iowa football tend to think that Outback and Capitol One Bowl wins are great outcomes, at least my in experience.
 
STLhawkeye20 said:
What "big wins?" The only wins that matter in my calculus are (1) postseason wins in BCS games/CFB playoffs; and (2) B1G Championship games. What else matters? Okay, I didn't list the Minnesota game in '02 in which we clinched the B1G Championship, but I listed the only other game that meets my criteria - Georgia Tech '09. Beating an undefeated Penn State team during the regular season as a mediocre team, while nice, and while I'll gladly take it, doesn't count as a big win. This is like saying that the Golden State Warrios had "big wins" over the Cavaliers in the regular season to justify their postseason loss. Good programs and good teams think with a winning mentality.
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What big wins? Really?

2002 - at #8 Michigan we won 34-9
2003 - vs #9 Michigan we won 30-27
2004 - vs #9 Wisconsin we won 30-8
- vs #12 LSU in the Citrus Bowl we won 30-25 (GREAT win!!)
2007 - at Michigan St we won in OT 34-27
2008 - vs #3 Penn St we won 24-23
2009 - at #5 Penn St we won 21-10
- vs #9 Georgia Tech in the Orange Bowl we won 24-14
2010 - vs #14 Missouri in the Insight Bowl we won 27-24
2012 - at Michigan St we won 19-16 in 2 OT
2015 - vs Pitt we won 27-24 (last second FG)
- at #19 Wisconsin we won 10-6

We do have some big wins since Ferentz has become coach. You just choose to ignore them and focus on the negative. Yes, I would like to recruit better. Yes, I would like to scheme better. Yes, I would like to run a more exciting offense. Yes, I would like to win more games. But it is what it is. You can't only point out one side.
 
Knight78 said:
What big wins? Really?

2002 - at #8 Michigan we won 34-9
2003 - vs #9 Michigan we won 30-27
2004 - vs #9 Wisconsin we won 30-8
- vs #12 LSU in the Citrus Bowl we won 30-25 (GREAT win!!)
2007 - at Michigan St we won in OT 34-27
2008 - vs #3 Penn St we won 24-23
2009 - at #5 Penn St we won 21-10
- vs #9 Georgia Tech in the Orange Bowl we won 24-14
2010 - vs #14 Missouri in the Insight Bowl we won 27-24
2012 - at Michigan St we won 19-16 in 2 OT
2015 - vs Pitt we won 27-24 (last second FG)
- at #19 Wisconsin we won 10-6

We do have some big wins since Ferentz has become coach. You just choose to ignore them and focus on the negative. Yes, I would like to recruit better. Yes, I would like to scheme better. Yes, I would like to run a more exciting offense. Yes, I would like to win more games. But it is what it is. You can't only point out one side.
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Look, I don't disagree that Kirk Ferentz has had some really great and big wins. There is no doubt about it. But I think that the last part of your last paragraph is what is starting to get to people. Its the last part of your paragraph that gets to me. What kind of football are we putting out on the field? How and why did we lose to FCS NDSU? Why did we not look hungry to win when we played them?

With everything that we brought back from last year we should be much better this. But we are not. Where do you place the blame?

Like one of the posters said on this thread earlier, that Ohio State game in 2009 showed me the type of coach Ferentz is when everything is on the line.
 
Knight, while I agree with you that "you can't only point out one side", there's the other side of the argument, that's historically proven, is the fact that our good/great years come scattered between mediocre/average years in which its more mediocre/average with some great years sprinkled in. While I don't totally agree that "our staff is a total failure" and continue to try to support them, I think its fair to say that based on history if we are to elevate ourselves to the next level or contend year in and year out for a conference championship then unfortunately its not going to be with this staff. That's not me saying they haven't done anything worthwhile or they are terrible its just I think we all know what we are getting and want something more.
 
Knight78 said:
What big wins? Really?

2002 - at #8 Michigan we won 34-9
2003 - vs #9 Michigan we won 30-27
2004 - vs #9 Wisconsin we won 30-8
- vs #12 LSU in the Citrus Bowl we won 30-25 (GREAT win!!)
2007 - at Michigan St we won in OT 34-27
2008 - vs #3 Penn St we won 24-23
2009 - at #5 Penn St we won 21-10
- vs #9 Georgia Tech in the Orange Bowl we won 24-14
2010 - vs #14 Missouri in the Insight Bowl we won 27-24
2012 - at Michigan St we won 19-16 in 2 OT
2015 - vs Pitt we won 27-24 (last second FG)
- at #19 Wisconsin we won 10-6

We do have some big wins since Ferentz has become coach. You just choose to ignore them and focus on the negative. Yes, I would like to recruit better. Yes, I would like to scheme better. Yes, I would like to run a more exciting offense. Yes, I would like to win more games. But it is what it is. You can't only point out one side.
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Holy ****. The ONLY barometer of success (to me) is (1) postseason success in BCS games/CFB playoffs; and (2) B1G Championships.

Strike 2002 Michigan from your list because we got annihilated by USC in the Orange Bowl, which is the only game that "counts."

Strike 2003 Michigan because we made the Outback Bowl that year, WHICH IS NOT A BCS GAME. The Outback Bowl is great, but it's a "loser's consolation" prize.

Strike 2004 Wisconsin from your list because again, we failed to make a BCS game.

I will give you the 2005 LSU win as a "great win," but this doesn't counter my argument that the coaching staff is a complete failure because as I've mentioned a half dozen times now, we won that game because of the coaching staff's incompetence. Unless you believe that KF intentionally let the clock wind down, strike it.

Strike 2007 Michigan State because we DIDN'T EVEN MAKE A FREAKING BOWL THAT YEAR and FOLLOWED UP WITH A LOSS TO WESTERN MICHIGAN. Enough said.

Strike 2008 Penn State because it's sad that the only thing we were playing for in that game was to spoil their undefeated season while our season was shrouded in mediocrity.

2009 Georgia Tech, okay, yeah, great BCS win.

Strike 2010 Missouri and do I even need to explain why? INSIGHT BOWL

Strike 2012 Michigan State because we went FOUR AND EIGHT

Strike Pitt and Wisconsin 2015 because we followed up by (1) losing the B1G Championship and (2) getting absolutely and utterly ANNIHILATED by Stanford.


If you want to look at these wins in isolation, as you're clearly doing, then yeah they're big wins. But you can't look at wins in isolation. You have to look at them relative to the rest of your season, which provides the necessary context for how big of a win it was in the first place. Maybe you're content with going 1-11 and beating #1 OSU, but I'd rather win more than 1 BCS game in two decades.
 
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STLhawkeye20 said:
Holy ****. The ONLY barometer of success (to me) is (1) postseason success in BCS games/CFB playoffs; and (2) B1G Championships.

Strike 2002 Michigan from your list because we got annihilated by USC in the Orange Bowl, which is the only game that "counts."

Strike 2003 Michigan because we made the Outback Bowl that year, WHICH IS NOT A BCS GAME. The Outback Bowl is great, but it's a "loser's consolation" prize.

Strike 2004 Wisconsin from your list because again, we failed to make a BCS game.

I will give you the 2005 LSU win as a "great win," but this doesn't counter my argument that the coaching staff is a complete failure because as I've mentioned a half dozen times now, we won that game because of the coaching staff's incompetence. Unless you believe that KF intentionally let the clock wind down, strike it.

Strike 2007 Michigan State because we DIDN'T EVEN MAKE A FREAKING BOWL THAT YEAR and FOLLOWED UP WITH A LOSS TO WESTERN MICHIGAN. Enough said.

Strike 2008 Penn State because it's sad that the only thing we were playing for in that game was to spoil their undefeated season while our season was shrouded in mediocrity.

2009 Georgia Tech, okay, yeah, great BCS win.

Strike 2010 Missouri and do I even need to explain why? INSIGHT BOWL

Strike 2012 Michigan State because we went FOUR AND EIGHT

Strike Pitt and Wisconsin 2015 because we followed up by (1) losing the B1G Championship and (2) getting absolutely and utterly ANNIHILATED by Stanford.


If you want to look at these wins in isolation, as you're clearly doing, then yeah they're big wins. But you can't look at wins in isolation. You have to look at them relative to the rest of your season, which provides the necessary context for how big of a win it was in the first place. Maybe you're content with going 1-11 and beating #1 OSU, but I'd rather win more than 1 BCS game in two decades.
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If your barometer of success is BCS/CFB playoffs and conference championships for Iowa Hawkeye football, you start out with unrealistic expectations to begin with.

But since Kirk has become coach, we do have two or three B1G conference co-championships, a B1G West championship and a BCS win; all things most B1G schools don't have. Perspective is a good thing.
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
If your barometer of success is BCS/CFB playoffs and conference championships for Iowa Hawkeye football, you start out with unrealistic expectations to begin with.

But since Kirk has become coach, we do have two or three B1G conference co-championships, a B1G West championship and a BCS win; all things most B1G schools don't have. Perspective is a good thing.
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Two, and both were shared.
 
STLhawkeye20 said:
Two, and both were shared.
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But in all fairness to the staff based on these expectations, it wasn't like we were winning them before they got here. I totally get where you're coming from but based on historical results, I see judging "big wins" based on BCS wins and conference champions the equivalent of Northwestern basketball defining success as NCAA tournament appearances.
 
I think a lot of losses have come from the LACK of adjustments and mainly halftime adjustments. Coaches that see the 'holes' make the adjustments and go after them. KF, not so much. . . . .
 
STLhawkeye20 said:
Holy ****. The ONLY barometer of success (to me) is (1) postseason success in BCS games/CFB playoffs; and (2) B1G Championships.

Strike 2002 Michigan from your list because we got annihilated by USC in the Orange Bowl, which is the only game that "counts."

Strike 2003 Michigan because we made the Outback Bowl that year, WHICH IS NOT A BCS GAME. The Outback Bowl is great, but it's a "loser's consolation" prize.

Strike 2004 Wisconsin from your list because again, we failed to make a BCS game.

I will give you the 2005 LSU win as a "great win," but this doesn't counter my argument that the coaching staff is a complete failure because as I've mentioned a half dozen times now, we won that game because of the coaching staff's incompetence. Unless you believe that KF intentionally let the clock wind down, strike it.

Strike 2007 Michigan State because we DIDN'T EVEN MAKE A FREAKING BOWL THAT YEAR and FOLLOWED UP WITH A LOSS TO WESTERN MICHIGAN. Enough said.

Strike 2008 Penn State because it's sad that the only thing we were playing for in that game was to spoil their undefeated season while our season was shrouded in mediocrity.

2009 Georgia Tech, okay, yeah, great BCS win.

Strike 2010 Missouri and do I even need to explain why? INSIGHT BOWL

Strike 2012 Michigan State because we went FOUR AND EIGHT

Strike Pitt and Wisconsin 2015 because we followed up by (1) losing the B1G Championship and (2) getting absolutely and utterly ANNIHILATED by Stanford.


If you want to look at these wins in isolation, as you're clearly doing, then yeah they're big wins. But you can't look at wins in isolation. You have to look at them relative to the rest of your season, which provides the necessary context for how big of a win it was in the first place. Maybe you're content with going 1-11 and beating #1 OSU, but I'd rather win more than 1 BCS game in two decades.
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You have a ridiculous barometer of success if it's BCS win, playoffs, or bust. I get a lot of entertainment watching individual games. It must suck for you to take no joy in games until you see how we finish at the end of the year.
 
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