Things I Think We All Agree On.

burky247 said:
I understand what you are saying Shane. But have you been to Carver this season? There was not a more dead atmosphere all year(and beyond) than our win against Northwestern the other night. We are talking an absolute morgue. After winning by the largest margin of victory all year. And almost scoring 80 pts.

Wins won't necessarily bring excitement. They will bring interest. You might add some fans by flirting with a NIT berth. But you're gonna need to be in contention for titles to fill Carver with this type of system. And even then, it's hard to keep the fans excited with this slow down ball(and please...no comparisons to Wisconsin. Their offense is nothing like ours even though it can be described as deliberate).

Contrast that to the Davis era, where we didn't really flirt with BT titles often but always had great crowds and terrific atmospheres. Even in down years we still had great crowds. And there was still energy being pumped through the walls.

I'm speaking mostly in terms of being a season ticket holder. We tend to demand an entertaining system along with the wins. Mainly cause we have to put up with more than those of you who watch from your living room. We have to deal with parking, make the long walks to Carver in freezing conditions, lose sleep cause of late weeknight starts, and deal with traffic on the way out. I suppose we are more likely to want to be entertained than the casual stay at home fan.

I think it would be an interesting study to find out the percentage of season ticket holders who are happy with this system and are willing to be patient. I would bet it would be a low percentage.
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No, I haven't been Burky...unfortunately I get to see Kinnick and Carver-Hawkeye everyday, but I don't get to see them when there's a game going on! And I understand your point...I think it's coming off as I'm saying style has nothing to do with it, when that's not how I'm intending to sound...maybe it's just me wanting wins so badly that I don't care how they come and I'm assuming more people are like me in that sense...I will admit, I don't like being able to count fastbreak baskets for the season, on one hand!

Edit: As for the Northwestern game...I don't think it's totally fair to use that as a barometer as it was a blow out and not a nail biter...excitement over the long haul is more what I'm looking at...getting up for a game night because you know your team has a chance to knock someone's d!ck in the dirt and bring a rated team down a notch in your house OR theirs.
 
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1977Hawkeye said:
I sure hope we can find out someday which of us is right. It sure beats the heck out of the alternative, where we continue to play sub-500 basketball.
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Let me be clear, I truly hope you guys are right. I will have no problem admitting I was wrong about everything if things turn around on all fronts. Nothing would make me happier. My Hawkeye pride ranks way above my personal ego.
 
burky247 said:
Let me be clear, I truly hope you guys are right. I will have no problem admitting I was wrong about everything if things turn around on all fronts. Nothing would make me happier. My Hawkeye pride ranks way above my personal ego.
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Agreed...I'd love to be wrong and have some stupid quote I said make it on everyone's "sig" if it means the Hawkeyes are back and winning and once again a factor in the Big10.
 
HawkeyeShane said:
Proably could've been its own thread topic? :D
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I was responding to the OP when he posted:
So, with that in mind, why do some of you have to come in here and pi$$ and moan about the same things over and over and over again? We have heard you. Does it make you feel better to do it again and again after nearly every game?
 
therealforeverhawk said:
I was responding to the OP when he posted:
So, with that in mind, why do some of you have to come in here and pi$$ and moan about the same things over and over and over again? We have heard you. Does it make you feel better to do it again and again after nearly every game?
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I still don't see how your point was relative to that point. It seemed like a great topic unto itself.
 
ForeverHawk said:
And to be fair, I am sure that some with a different viewpoint than myself probably get tired of my optimism. But just becasue I have optimism for the future does not mean that I am not disappointed with this season. It sucks, even though I have seen improvement throughout the year.

If Lick were shown the door after this season, imo this program would suffer through several more years of basketball hell. We need to give Lick the chance to right the program. I expect this team to make the NCAA at the end of year 5. I think most of us would take that right now.
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You'd be right. If Lick goes, so does the next 5+ yrs of Iowa bball. What's another year or two with Lick going to hurt in the long run? It can't get that much worse. I believe Lick will be the guy that turns things around, as long as he gets the chance.
 
ForeverHawk said:
I think we all can agree this season sucks whether you support Lick or not. I think we all can again agree that Lick will be the coach at least next year, if not the next two years.

So, with that in mind, why do some of you have to come in here and pi$$ and moan about the same things over and over and over again? We have heard you. Does it make you feel better to do it again and again after nearly every game?

We know this season isn't really going to get much better. We know we have a pretty good class coming in next year. We know we have a least one open scholarship that could be used on a backup pg. All the negativity is not going to change one thing. You are still going to have to wait for the offseason to play out and for next year to begin, just like the rest of us.
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The same can be said for people that think its going to improve. At least the people that take the negative angle are working on past performance and results. The positive people are throwing things out like, "he set some good screens" and "May dunked instead of layed it in" and laying hopes on players that have never set foot on a college basketball court.
 
ForeverHawk said:
I think we all can agree this season sucks whether you support Lick or not. I think we all can again agree that Lick will be the coach at least next year, if not the next two years.

So, with that in mind, why do some of you have to come in here and pi$$ and moan about the same things over and over and over again? We have heard you. Does it make you feel better to do it again and again after nearly every game?

We know this season isn't really going to get much better. We know we have a pretty good class coming in next year. We know we have a least one open scholarship that could be used on a backup pg. All the negativity is not going to change one thing. You are still going to have to wait for the offseason to play out and for next year to begin, just like the rest of us.
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Dude, if you dont like the point of views of others, then why are you here? As far as I'm concerned, if you dont like POV, too bad, thats why we have free discussions, to banter back and forth, not to be a support group where everyone has to agree. You add a bunch of unsupportable pollyanna generality BS in the body of your post, and you fill it up with the same ******* and moaning you are whining about if others dont agree(quite hypocritical)

Basketball is best played at a fast pace, where the athletes that play utilize their talents(especially within a system that offers a outline, that essentially sets the play and then offers freedom for athletes to excell with their skills), where individual skills pare up with the team dynamic and meld together. At IOWA, basketball has no excitment, the athleticism is hard to find when the structure slows it all down, its all grind (and very little in wins, plus the fans dont see much to cheer about, no athletic plays, no approach that attacks the hole, no dunks, no pressure or steals, etc), no fun.
 
clicheusername3 said:
The same can be said for people that think its going to improve. At least the people that take the negative angle are working on past performance and results. The positive people are throwing things out like, "he set some good screens" and "May dunked instead of layed it in" and laying hopes on players that have never set foot on a college basketball court.
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I'd agree with this. The pessimistic people, (myself included) have the past to base opinion off of. You can try to argue that Lick walked into a shell of what the program once was. But other programs have been turned around in the amount of time he has had. The other side of the coin are willing to wager the future on hopes and dreams that haven't yet been seen. I like the class that is coming in, and I don't care what style of BB we play as long as we win. But I have a hard time believing that the recruits that are coming in are going to be immediate impact players. I would actually wager that Lil Lick still gets the most back-up minutes at pg next year. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. And Cully and May are doing a darn fine job for freshman, but are playing out of necessity, not necessarily due to talent. Although those two seem to be the brightest spots for the future, can you ask yourself if three or four more of them is the solution to our problems? I'll just say this, because I can't put together a constructive response that's comprihendable. We won't be much better next year imo, and I'm not patient enough or willing to waste 1 or 2 more years to figure it out. I hope they can prove me wrong though and hope it's Lick out there doing it with them.
 
HawkeyeShane said:
I'm just saying, wins bring excitement moreso than style of play...always has, always will.

Edit: I'm a product of the Tom Davis era as I was just a wee tyke when Lute was here, so I can tell you that I prefer up tempo...I just would prefer wins even more...where style of play would factor in more, is being down 12 with 3 minutes to go and knowing your team isn't built to make that up...that part would be frustrating, but 23-25 W's, no matter how they're gained, would create excitement.
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I am with you on this, the '05-06 team constantly played games in the 50's and 60's and I enjoyed watching them play. I prefer up tempo basketball as well, however if somehow TL can win with this style of play I would be on board.
 
Wow, Shane are you a psychiatrist? That is pretty heavy-- analyzing all of us who complain about Iowa BB. I didn't realize that if I didn't complain here I would have to look inside myself and at my own life. Is Iowa bb really that important? I don't even watch the news or read newspapers so I guess your analysis of me doesn't fit? what now.

Maybe some of us complain just because we are sick and tired of having the worst Iowa run in history of Iowa bb and a coach that just happens to be in charge of all that. Also, when we see games like NW we aren't fooled into thinking that Iowa is just around the corner of being a very good team again and that the Iowa team we see is more like the Purdue game.

Oh sure, it is fun to talk about how we beat up white NW and how we were just as athletic as they were and how good of a game it was but again, when was the last time you saw 10 white guys on the court at the same time for most of a game in the Big 10? And you don't think that might matter just a little?

We beat Indiana but I guarantee you that Crean will have that program turned around quicker than Iowa. It didn't help having their best player hurt, and I mean their best player--perhaps freshman of the year in the Big 10.
 
cibula11 said:
You'd be right. If Lick goes, so does the next 5+ yrs of Iowa bball. What's another year or two with Lick going to hurt in the long run? It can't get that much worse. I believe Lick will be the guy that turns things around, as long as he gets the chance.
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WHAT? Now we're doomed for the next 5+ years if we fire Lickliter? Why don't we just round up to the nearest decade and call it an even 10 years before the next coach can have a chance to get his system in place and show some improvement. Ten years is a nice round number.

Just to be clear - You really think a new coach will take 5 years (OR MORE) to get us on track? 2-3 years, yes. But not 5-6 or more. NO WAY.
 
"I would actually wager that Lil Lick still gets the most back-up minutes at pg next year."

Name the bet....and I will give you odds. Lick may be struggling at Iowa, but to say stuff like this is dumb.
 
"Just to be clear - You really think a new coach will take 5 years (OR MORE) to get us on track? 2-3 years, yes. But not 5-6 or more. NO WAY."

How do you know a new coach won't take 5-6 years? Based on the challenges a new coach would face, it's much more likely it would take more than 2-3 years. One only needs to look at the last 10 years as a barometer. People need to face facts: Iowa basketball is currently a coaching graveyard.
 
NewMexHawk said:
Wow, Shane are you a psychiatrist? That is pretty heavy-- analyzing all of us who complain about Iowa BB. I didn't realize that if I didn't complain here I would have to look inside myself and at my own life. Is Iowa bb really that important? I don't even watch the news or read newspapers so I guess your analysis of me doesn't fit? what now.

Maybe some of us complain just because we are sick and tired of having the worst Iowa run in history of Iowa bb and a coach that just happens to be in charge of all that. Also, when we see games like NW we aren't fooled into thinking that Iowa is just around the corner of being a very good team again and that the Iowa team we see is more like the Purdue game.

Oh sure, it is fun to talk about how we beat up white NW and how we were just as athletic as they were and how good of a game it was but again, when was the last time you saw 10 white guys on the court at the same time for most of a game in the Big 10? And you don't think that might matter just a little?

We beat Indiana but I guarantee you that Crean will have that program turned around quicker than Iowa. It didn't help having their best player hurt, and I mean their best player--perhaps freshman of the year in the Big 10.
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Can you be any more racist with this post? This is not the first time. Is it safe to assume you do not prefer white basketball players? Please Explain?
 
therealforeverhawk said:
Ok, if people can't come on an post that things need to get better and Lick isn't doing the job, the the people that say things are getting better can't post either (because there have been many posts on that too) so I guess Close Down the message boards because it has all been said before.

If one side is allowed to post and start new posts then the other side is allowed to post and start new posts. Of course it has all been said before, but if sides can't express their opinions then it is like giving up and accepting the other side. Posters have the right to state and restate their opinions. If you don't like what is said, don't read, or don't answer, but don't say they can't say it because they have said it before.
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Didn't say they couldn't, just asked why they did? Thanks for the insight though, therealforeverhawk! Glad to see you back.
 
ForeverHawk said:
And to be fair, I am sure that some with a different viewpoint than myself probably get tired of my optimism. But just becasue I have optimism for the future does not mean that I am not disappointed with this season. It sucks, even though I have seen improvement throughout the year.

If Lick were shown the door after this season, imo this program would suffer through several more years of basketball hell. We need to give Lick the chance to right the program. I expect this team to make the NCAA at the end of year 5. I think most of us would take that right now.
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Having not read through this entire thread, I'm sure that 12345, Reign, and DesMoinesHawki would have calm, measured, well thought out responses to a post such as this.
 
ShadasRevenge said:
Having not read through this entire thread, I'm sure that 12345, Reign, and DesMoinesHawki would have calm, measured, well thought out responses to a post such as this.
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Without naming names, HaterNation is in full representation(Settle down boys, just having some fun).
 
ShadasRevenge said:
I'm seeing that as I read through this thread. How dare you try to find some common ground. For shame, sir.

For shame.
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I wasn't necessarily looking for common ground. However, I did throw in a post saying that I am sure many on the other side of the issue get tired of my optimism. So I did at least try to be fair. I think the only thing that will bring common ground is wins. But even then I am not so sure if Iowa does it in a not so exciting way.

One thing I don't do is come out here after Iowa wins and try to jam it down the throat of those posters. Most of those posters are not here after a win, but are out in force after a loss like yesterday. I really wasn't too surprised by the outcome yesterday, so I did not see a reason to get worked up.
 
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