Things I Think We All Agree On.

ForeverHawk

ForeverHawk

Well-Known Member
I think we all can agree this season sucks whether you support Lick or not. I think we all can again agree that Lick will be the coach at least next year, if not the next two years.

So, with that in mind, why do some of you have to come in here and pi$$ and moan about the same things over and over and over again? We have heard you. Does it make you feel better to do it again and again after nearly every game?

We know this season isn't really going to get much better. We know we have a pretty good class coming in next year. We know we have a least one open scholarship that could be used on a backup pg. All the negativity is not going to change one thing. You are still going to have to wait for the offseason to play out and for next year to begin, just like the rest of us.
 
well put. i think the misconception is that when some of us try to point out some of the small positive things that have happened (development of fuller, emergence of may, satisfying win over northwestern) that we're denying the total crappiness of the season. no one is saying this hasn't been brutal. i would just rather take pleasure in the small joys when they happen then point out the problems over and over and over again.
 
It's human nature to b!tch and moan...as the human race we relish the opportunity to be unhappy. Even when we win it comes with a "but", because we'll STILL find time to criticize anything bad that happened in that same game! It's also why we tune in to the news every night to get hammered over and over again with everything bad going on in the world...if it was all good stuff the ratings would crash...If people didn't have something to b!tch about in the world outside of theirs, they'd have to look at theirs more closely...and that could send us all to the looney bin.
 
And to be fair, I am sure that some with a different viewpoint than myself probably get tired of my optimism. But just becasue I have optimism for the future does not mean that I am not disappointed with this season. It sucks, even though I have seen improvement throughout the year.

If Lick were shown the door after this season, imo this program would suffer through several more years of basketball hell. We need to give Lick the chance to right the program. I expect this team to make the NCAA at the end of year 5. I think most of us would take that right now.
 
My feelings to a tee.....I see the improvement this year....the talent is there, the experience and the depth are not. The experience these freshman and sophs are getting this year is invaluable, the depth is on the way, as is the postseason! NIT in 2011, NCAA's in 2012!
 
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ForeverHawk said:
And to be fair, I am sure that some with a different viewpoint than myself probably get tired of my optimism. But just becasue I have optimism for the future does not mean that I am not disappointed with this season. It sucks, even though I have seen improvement throughout the year.

If Lick were shown the door after this season, imo this program would suffer through several more years of basketball hell. We need to give Lick the chance to right the program. I expect this team to make the NCAA at the end of year 5. I think most of us would take that right now.
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And to be fair, those that come on and ***** and moan about the season....well that doesn't mean that they aren't optimistic to some extent either. They just choose to talk about the problems with the Lickliter era. I, personally don't have a problem with either the positive or the negative...it's good conversation to me.
 
I think we can clearly see that some are not optimistic for the future of Iowa basketball under Lickliter.
 
I suppose for the same reason some of you seem to like to spin every disastrous thing that has happened to our program since TL's hire. Or remark how the future will be fine because of accomplishments acheived at another school or on incoming recruits that haven't even made it to campus yet.

I don't consider myself a "hater". Considering I'm a season ticket holder in these times, I consider myself a great Hawk fan. A fan who has been attending Carver for many many years. And over those many years, I feel I have learned what it takes to win at Iowa and what the majority of Iowa fans want to see out of their team. I have had so many discussions with Iowa fans over the last few seasons. Whether it be season ticket holders, the former ticket holders that have abandoned their seats, or just potential ticket holders that just can't fathom spending money on this product. Over and over again, it's the same story. Give me an entertaining team and I may show up in the future.

And guess what? This isn't it. And giving TL all the time in the world isn't going to change anything if he isn't going to change his philosophy. I am as confident about this as I am anything regarding Iowa athletics. And the people who think that TL will adapt his system to his personnel really drive me nuts. Does this coach seem like a guy who adapts easily? It's been 'my way or the highway' since he's been here. And you don't run a system for three years, regardless of the talent pool, if it's not your basic fundamental belief of your offense.

So while some of you want to give Lick more time so he can prove you were right, I want him gone so Iowa basketball can heal and we can return to how Iowa basketball is suppose to be. This hire never did fit Iowa. This boring tempo never fit Iowa. And I long for the day that I can once again take my daughter to a game without her complaining of how it's become so boring.

There. That's why some of us are being such a pain in the butt about things. Because we have the ability to see in the future, and the future is clear. More bloodshed, more losses, more empty seats, and more sand running out of the hour glass of our symbolic Hawk fan lifeline.
 
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ForeverHawk said:
I think we all can agree this season sucks whether you support Lick or not. I think we all can again agree that Lick will be the coach at least next year, if not the next two years.

So, with that in mind, why do some of you have to come in here and pi$$ and moan about the same things over and over and over again? We have heard you. Does it make you feel better to do it again and again after nearly every game?

We know this season isn't really going to get much better. We know we have a pretty good class coming in next year. We know we have a least one open scholarship that could be used on a backup pg. All the negativity is not going to change one thing. You are still going to have to wait for the offseason to play out and for next year to begin, just like the rest of us.
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Trust me when I say this if we see more of the same in year 4 and in year 5. You haven't seen nothing yet Forever..

The 2 most important positions for Iowa right now are positions that Iowa is very, very weak in. Those are Point Guard and Center. Cully is doing a fine job, but lose him and Iowa is screwed. Iowa must find another PG if it's Brust than so be it. That brings youth back to play. Iowa next year still is going to be thin in rotation. Does Coach Lick think his son is the next PG at Iowa. Will soon find out. The Center position- Enough said. We have recruited enough 6-5 to 6-8 guys. lol

I'm sorry but this 2 year turn around mentality is pretty far-fetched based on what I see.
 
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I'm sorry, I just don't buy the "excitement" excuse...I don't care if a team puts up 75 a night, if they're giving up 87 and losing the same number of games, noone's going to sit in the stands and say..."Yeah, but they're fun to watch! They can keep taking my money!" people who are saying that now are saying it because they want a change and "style of play" is an easy target since it's not working...if style of play was the concern, noone would fill up the Kohl Center.
 
HawkeyeShane said:
I'm sorry, I just don't buy the "excitement" excuse...I don't care if a team puts up 75 a night, if they're giving up 87 and losing the same number of games, noone's going to sit in the stands and say..."Yeah, but they're fun to watch! They can keep taking my money!" people who are saying that now are saying it because they want a change and "style of play" is an easy target since it's not working...if style of play was the concern, noone would fill up the Kohl Center.
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I think you're right on the money. If we're still losing, fans would still be PO'ed and Carver would still have attendance problems. Even if a few would come back for the more exciting style of play, I don't think it would change a whole lot. I've said before, I think it's wins that matter most. Establish a winning tradition, and the fans will be there.
 
Keep holding to the belief that Iowa fans don't want exciting basketball(plus wins of course. No one is implying that losing with exciting basketball is acceptable either). And then continue to enjoy looking at a half full Carver.
 
burky247 said:
Keep holding to the belief that Iowa fans don't want exciting basketball(plus wins of course. No one is implying that losing with exciting basketball is acceptable either). And then continue to enjoy looking at a half full Carver.
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I'm just saying, wins bring excitement moreso than style of play...always has, always will.

Edit: I'm a product of the Tom Davis era as I was just a wee tyke when Lute was here, so I can tell you that I prefer up tempo...I just would prefer wins even more...where style of play would factor in more, is being down 12 with 3 minutes to go and knowing your team isn't built to make that up...that part would be frustrating, but 23-25 W's, no matter how they're gained, would create excitement.
 
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burky247 said:
Keep holding to the belief that Iowa fans don't want exciting basketball(plus wins of course. No one is implying that losing with exciting basketball is acceptable either). And then continue to enjoy looking at a half full Carver.
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The fans DO want an exciting style of play. You'll get no argument from me there.

It depends I think on how much we win with this style. If it's just NIT bids, then I think attendance will continue to struggle. I do feel though that if the team starts making NCAA Tournaments again regularly, and win a game or two.. I honestly believe that will generate some fan excitement and the attendance will be ok.

I sure hope we can find out someday which of us is right. It sure beats the heck out of the alternative, where we continue to play sub-500 basketball.
 
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Ok, if people can't come on an post that things need to get better and Lick isn't doing the job, the the people that say things are getting better can't post either (because there have been many posts on that too) so I guess Close Down the message boards because it has all been said before.

If one side is allowed to post and start new posts then the other side is allowed to post and start new posts. Of course it has all been said before, but if sides can't express their opinions then it is like giving up and accepting the other side. Posters have the right to state and restate their opinions. If you don't like what is said, don't read, or don't answer, but don't say they can't say it because they have said it before.
 
HawkeyeShane said:
I'm just saying, wins bring excitement moreso than style of play...always has, always will.
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I understand what you are saying Shane. But have you been to Carver this season? There was not a more dead atmosphere all year(and beyond) than our win against Northwestern the other night. We are talking an absolute morgue. After winning by the largest margin of victory all year. And almost scoring 80 pts.

Wins won't necessarily bring excitement. They will bring interest. You might add some fans by flirting with a NIT berth. But you're gonna need to be in contention for titles to fill Carver with this type of system. And even then, it's hard to keep the fans excited with this slow down ball(and please...no comparisons to Wisconsin. Their offense is nothing like ours even though it can be described as deliberate).

Contrast that to the Davis era, where we didn't really flirt with BT titles often but always had great crowds and terrific atmospheres. Even in down years we still had great crowds. And there was still energy being pumped through the walls.

I'm speaking mostly in terms of being a season ticket holder. We tend to demand an entertaining system along with the wins. Mainly cause we have to put up with more than those of you who watch from your living room. We have to deal with parking, make the long walks to Carver in freezing conditions, lose sleep cause of late weeknight starts, and deal with traffic on the way out. I suppose we are more likely to want to be entertained than the casual stay at home fan.

I think it would be an interesting study to find out the percentage of season ticket holders who are happy with this system and are willing to be patient. I would bet it would be a low percentage.
 
therealforeverhawk said:
Ok, if people can't come on an post that things need to get better and Lick isn't doing the job, the the people that say things are getting better can't post either (because there have been many posts on that too) so I guess Close Down the message boards because it has all been said before.

If one side is allowed to post and start new posts then the other side is allowed to post and start new posts. Of course it has all been said before, but if sides can't express their opinions then it is like giving up and accepting the other side. Posters have the right to state and restate their opinions. If you don't like what is said, don't read, or don't answer, but don't say they can't say it because they have said it before.
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Proably could've been its own thread topic? :D
 
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