These were the 3 best refs that graded out to get the Nat Champ game?

[eyekwah]

One of the concerns recently expressed is the low scoring games. Last night wasn't a low scoring game, but many more tournament games were. As scoring has decreased, even with the addition of the three point shot, you have to point to the increase in physical play allowed. There were a instances in the tournament and last night where people could have been seriously hurt because play got too physical. Someone is going to be paralyzed from allowing the physical play to continue. The referees are there for the primary reason of keeping players safe and secondly to enforce the rules.

What is allowed today versus what was allowed 50 years ago is markedly different. The hand check and reach in are taught because it is rarely called. When it does get called it is usually because play has become too physical, but then it is back to business as usual. The use of the lower body to move players without getting called is another problem. Throwing a hip into the trunk of a waiting rebounder or to make space for a shot needs attention as well. This rewards stronger and bulky players to use force rather than position to gain an advantage.

The last comment, with respect to this topic, is how the definition of palming the ball has changed. Essentially today the dribbler is allowed to pass the ball to himself to get around a defender. There is no reason to ever call palming anymore, regardless of how obvious it is.

There are two choices that can be made; one is enforce the rules on the book ardently the entire game or remove the rules related to fouls that are no longer needed. What we witnessed in the tournament and throughout the season was basically street ball brought to the college level.

 

[nationalchamps]

The refs were pretty terrible. Not even because they let guys play, but because they changed the way they called the game DURING the game. It was way more physical in the first half. When refs can't keep consistency within the confines of a single game, they shouldn't be reffing. Not at the college level.

Correct. Those guys should be reffing the Iowa High School substate games.

 

[trj]

One of the concerns recently expressed is the low scoring games. Last night wasn't a low scoring game, but many more tournament games were. As scoring has decreased, even with the addition of the three point shot, you have to point to the increase in physical play allowed. There were a instances in the tournament and last night where people could have been seriously hurt because play got too physical. Someone is going to be paralyzed from allowing the physical play to continue. The referees are there for the primary reason of keeping players safe and secondly to enforce the rules.

What is allowed today versus what was allowed 50 years ago is markedly different. The hand check and reach in are taught because it is rarely called. When it does get called it is usually because play has become too physical, but then it is back to business as usual. The use of the lower body to move players without getting called is another problem. Throwing a hip into the trunk of a waiting rebounder or to make space for a shot needs attention as well. This rewards stronger and bulky players to use force rather than position to gain an advantage.

The last comment, with respect to this topic, is how the definition of palming the ball has changed. Essentially today the dribbler is allowed to pass the ball to himself to get around a defender. There is no reason to ever call palming anymore, regardless of how obvious it is.

There are two choices that can be made; one is enforce the rules on the book ardently the entire game or remove the rules related to fouls that are no longer needed. What we witnessed in the tournament and throughout the season was basically street ball brought to the college level.

The Allen Iverson crossover, the And1(hot sauce) garbage they are starting to call that now. Otherwise you are describing Missouri Valley Conference basketball that people get all weepy eye'd and nostalgic for only thing you missed was the description of guys diving all over the floor for loose balls.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

It was a rugby scrum down low in the 2nd half for the rebounds. It was insane.

 

[JHHawk]

Tim Miles of Nebraska told his players in one of those The Journy episodes '' everytime one of their guys go thru the lane,I want a collision!''....this is how the refs have changed the game..it is now no longer just a contact sport, it is a collision sport!

Last nite was yet another horrible display of reffing incompetence. Not even going into the physical play, just avoid the bad calls:
1. Goaltend call...this was not close.
2. Non-goal tend call results in a breakout the other way and Burkes 1st foul.
3. Burkes second foul on Hancock's leap to the side to make contact with Burke...Burke sits the last 13 minutes of the 1st half...game changer.
4. Burkes clean block that was charged a foul...2 pts by Siva,and could have been 2 the other way in transition.
5. At least one foul on McGary was cheap,which put him on the bench for much of the 2nd half.

The reffing really hurt Michigan,period. If they had evened out, maybe not so aggregious...but did not.
Shame.

 

[atxhawk]

One of the concerns recently expressed is the low scoring games. Last night wasn't a low scoring game, but many more tournament games were. As scoring has decreased, even with the addition of the three point shot, you have to point to the increase in physical play allowed. There were a instances in the tournament and last night where people could have been seriously hurt because play got too physical. Someone is going to be paralyzed from allowing the physical play to continue. The referees are there for the primary reason of keeping players safe and secondly to enforce the rules.

What is allowed today versus what was allowed 50 years ago is markedly different. The hand check and reach in are taught because it is rarely called. When it does get called it is usually because play has become too physical, but then it is back to business as usual. The use of the lower body to move players without getting called is another problem. Throwing a hip into the trunk of a waiting rebounder or to make space for a shot needs attention as well. This rewards stronger and bulky players to use force rather than position to gain an advantage.

The last comment, with respect to this topic, is how the definition of palming the ball has changed. Essentially today the dribbler is allowed to pass the ball to himself to get around a defender. There is no reason to ever call palming anymore, regardless of how obvious it is.

There are two choices that can be made; one is enforce the rules on the book ardently the entire game or remove the rules related to fouls that are no longer needed. What we witnessed in the tournament and throughout the season was basically street ball brought to the college level.

Pretty much agree with this. With all the talk from announcers and such about how much better the players are than 25 years ago you would think that the games would be more entertaining and scoring would be better, but it's not. It's not necessarily about who has the better team anymore, it sometimes comes down to who gets away with more. Teams these days can make up for a lack of skill by being more physical with the hand checking, grabbing, hacking, and moving screens. I pointed out in another thread that the 88-89 team of BJ, Marble, and Horton averaged 89.6 points per game which was only good for 14th. The highest scoring team this year was Iona averaging 80.2. That same Iowa team also shot 51.7% from the field, if a team shoots 50% these days it's amazing.

If I had been allowed to play defense 25 years ago like they are allowed to today, I would have been a pretty good player. Instead, I was sitting on the bench because I either got in foul trouble from trying to play that kind of defense or I was getting beat on D because I had to follow the rules. Dang lack of lateral speed.

I still love to watch the Hawkeyes and the tournament, but I don't really watch any basketball other than that anymore. I used to watch it all the time, but it has become less and less entertaining the more grabbing they allow. The players may be better and more skilled, but you wouldn't know it from the product on the floor.

 

[DaBears]

Tim Miles of Nebraska told his players in one of those The Journy episodes '' everytime one of their guys go thru the lane,I want a collision!''....this is how the refs have changed the game..it is now no longer just a contact sport, it is a collision sport!

Last nite was yet another horrible display of reffing incompetence. Not even going into the physical play, just avoid the bad calls:
1. Goaltend call...this was not close.
2. Non-goal tend call results in a breakout the other way and Burkes 1st foul.
3. Burkes second foul on Hancock's leap to the side to make contact with Burke...Burke sits the last 13 minutes of the 1st half...game changer.
4. Burkes clean block that was charged a foul...2 pts by Siva,and could have been 2 the other way in transition.
5. At least one foul on McGary was cheap,which put him on the bench for much of the 2nd half.

The reffing really hurt Michigan,period. If they had evened out, maybe not so aggregious...but did not.
Shame.

You were obviously cheering for Michigan.
What about McGary's shoving and over the backs that didn't get called?
What about Burke's shove-off every time he brought the ball up the court?
Bet you didn't see any of those plays, did you?

 

[uihawk82]

I'm glad the refs let them play. If they would have actually called all the fouls that happened, there would have been about 70 FTs and the game would have lasted until midnight eastern time. I enjoyed that game a lot, partly because the refs let them play it. The players seem to play harder, tougher, and they show more skills when the refs swallow their whistles.

How about defenders actually play defense with their feet instead of reaching and grabbing and clutching and handchecking. If a guy goes up for a shot you try to block it or get a hand in his face but instead now they let them body people up and shove.

I disagree with you , play defense the correct way, call fouls and there wont be a parade to the free throw line.

I even postulate that with players not getting mugged they will shoot better and scores will go up.

It is haphazard lazy feet defense now where guys reach and hack to get turnovers and that is called great DEE.

 

[tm3308]

This has been happening for years, nothing has changed. Once I get into watching a game my attention is not wasted on officiating. I must be different in that way. The game last night was a really fun game to watch, one of the better Championship games I've seen in a while.

I used to love taking part in game threads however I can't even following them anymore because officiating complaint takes over them. The National Championship thread from last night is pretty much on pace with how most Iowa game threads go. I popped in last night to take part in but quickly saw it wasn't worth my time..

Just take a look at the last post I quote here. It's pretty hard not to have officiating ruin your night when you see plays like that "rewarded" with a foul call. I don't know if I've seen a better block on a fast break in my life. All ball up top, minimal (at most) contact with the body. There's not a cleaner play in basketball.

I don't watch games with the intention of ******** about officials. But when I see plays like that get blown, it's pretty hard not to notice. There were numerous other ridiculous plays that result in bad or no-calls. Louisville had a guy get mugged by three Michigan defenders on the way up for a rebound, on the floor after coming down, and then again on the way up for the putback. No call to be found.

It was happening on both sides. Siva and Smith are great defender, it is laughable for you to say otherwise.

Sure, it was happening on both sides. Now quickly name the guys on Michigan's roster who routinely get credit for being great defenders? Nobody. That's why I can't stand the love for Craft. Literally hundreds of players play defense exactly the same way he does. Only the smallest handful, for whatever reason, have the "great defender" reputation and therefore rarely get called for fouls. You want to watch actual defense, what a guy like Oladipo. Personally, I think his defensive results are better than Craft's, regardless of the methods they use. Throw in the fact that Oladipo plays defense the way it's supposed to be played, and it's a no-brainer to me when naming the best defender out there.

What a great play ...

 

[tm3308]

How about defenders actually play defense with their feet instead of reaching and grabbing and clutching and handchecking. If a guy goes up for a shot you try to block it or get a hand in his face but instead now they let them body people up and shove.

I disagree with you , play defense the correct way, call fouls and there wont be a parade to the free throw line.

I even postulate that with players not getting mugged they will shoot better and scores will go up.

It is haphazard lazy feet defense now where guys reach and hack to get turnovers and that is called great DEE.

To be fair, there would likely have been a parade to the free throw line last night. Even if they started calling games the way they should be, it would take time before players adjusted. But it's an adjustment that needs to be made.

 

[Jjgoiowa11]

This has been happening for years, nothing has changed. Once I get into watching a game my attention is not wasted on officiating. I must be different in that way. The game last night was a really fun game to watch, one of the better Championship games I've seen in a while.

I used to love taking part in game threads however I can't even following them anymore because officiating complaint takes over them. The National Championship thread from last night is pretty much on pace with how most Iowa game threads go. I popped in last night to take part in but quickly saw it wasn't worth my time..

Well aren't you the man.

 

[sd6365]

One of the refs was John Higgins. He is the tool from Omaha that kicked Fran out of the UNI game in the 2011-2012 year.

 

[talkinhawks]

Tim Miles of Nebraska told his players in one of those The Journy episodes '' everytime one of their guys go thru the lane,I want a collision!''....this is how the refs have changed the game..it is now no longer just a contact sport, it is a collision sport!

Last nite was yet another horrible display of reffing incompetence. Not even going into the physical play, just avoid the bad calls:
1. Goaltend call...this was not close.
2. Non-goal tend call results in a breakout the other way and Burkes 1st foul.
3. Burkes second foul on Hancock's leap to the side to make contact with Burke...Burke sits the last 13 minutes of the 1st half...game changer.
4. Burkes clean block that was charged a foul...2 pts by Siva,and could have been 2 the other way in transition.
5. At least one foul on McGary was cheap,which put him on the bench for much of the 2nd half.

The reffing really hurt Michigan,period. If they had evened out, maybe not so aggregious...but did not.
Shame.

That was the biggest travesty of the game...Burke (the ap player of the year) having to sit out because a guy on the three point line jumps sideways into him and gets the call. That was a horrendous call.....Although spike did a great job of picking up the slack, he is not nearly the all around player that Burke is.

 

[leiserom]

I was in a bar Monday and ran into a hs girls coach I know. Not just any coach but the coach of the two Nigerian sisters who played for Stanford(pretty good players) and Lindsey Harding(who played for Duke). I guess if she coached 3 all americans her opinion is worth something. I kidded her that she would be all over our case if we officiated one of her games like the national championship. She didnt necessarily have a problem with the first half as it was fairly consistent.Like she said as a former college coach it was consistent and they can play. Maybe she was just trying to butter me up for next hs season.

 

[DuffMan]

That was the biggest travesty of the game...Burke (the ap player of the year) having to sit out because a guy on the three point line jumps sideways into him and gets the call. That was a horrendous call.....Although spike did a great job of picking up the slack, he is not nearly the all around player that Burke is.

Burks foul trouble and sitting in the first half didn't hurt them in the least. His replacement scored 17 in the first half.

 

[tm3308]

Burks foul trouble and sitting in the first half didn't hurt them in the least. His replacement scored 17 in the first half.

1. Burke is a better defender than Spike.
2. Not having Burke changes what Michigan can do offensively. Spike doesn't get a lot of minutes, and the fact Louisville didn't guard him doesn't mean Michigan's offense was running on all cylinders with Burke on the bench.

3. And this is the big one. Burke's foul trouble, both with the bogus 3-pointer foul and the block, forced him to watch as Louisville drained away precious seconds late in the game, as he had 4 fouls and Michigan couldn't possibly win with him fouled out at that point. The game could have been a lot different if those two fouls aren't called. If you just reversed those two calls, Louisville is out of four points. But getting the block call right also would have had a huge effect on momentum.

Don't try and convince people that Burke's foul trouble (thanks to bad calls by officials) didn't have a HUGE impact on the outcome. You'll only convince people you're an even bigger fool than they originally thought.

 

[DuffMan]

1. Burke is a better defender than Spike.
2. Not having Burke changes what Michigan can do offensively. Spike doesn't get a lot of minutes, and the fact Louisville didn't guard him doesn't mean Michigan's offense was running on all cylinders with Burke on the bench.

3. And this is the big one. Burke's foul trouble, both with the bogus 3-pointer foul and the block, forced him to watch as Louisville drained away precious seconds late in the game, as he had 4 fouls and Michigan couldn't possibly win with him fouled out at that point. The game could have been a lot different if those two fouls aren't called. If you just reversed those two calls, Louisville is out of four points. But getting the block call right also would have had a huge effect on momentum.

Don't try and convince people that Burke's foul trouble (thanks to bad calls by officials) didn't have a HUGE impact on the outcome. You'll only convince people you're an even bigger fool than they originally thought.

1) Silva scored 16 of his 18 in the second half. He scored 2 pts while Spike was guarding him. Their other guard scored 6 pts n 3-16 shooting.

2) Michigan didn't skip a beat offensively with Burke on the bench. They scored 36 in the first half, and 36 in the second half.

3) And this is the big one, Burkes foul trouble had nothing to do with why scUM watch precious seconds drain away late. That was a mistake by their coach, one he admitted to after the game confessing he didn't know the foul situation late.

If you are gonna come at someone with that big of a boner at least have your **** straight and facts to back up your argument. That Derp might fly as the Daily Iowan but you ain't gonna be able to land a big boy job with it.

 

[tm3308]

1) Silva scored 16 of his 18 in the second half. He scored 2 pts while Spike was guarding him. Their other guard scored 6 pts n 3-16 shooting.

2) Michigan didn't skip a beat offensively with Burke on the bench. They scored 36 in the first half, and 36 in the second half.

3) And this is the big one, Burkes foul trouble had nothing to do with why scUM watch precious seconds drain away late. That was a mistake by their coach, one he admitted to after the game confessing he didn't know the foul situation late.

If you are gonna come at someone with that big of a boner at least have your **** straight and facts to back up your argument. That Derp might fly as the Daily Iowan but you ain't gonna be able to land a big boy job with it.

Sure, there was a way for Michigan to work around Burke's foul trouble. But taking him off the floor and reinserting him like a utility player is not ideal, and if the officials had made the correct calls, such a strategy wouldn't have been necessary. But of course, you're not going to agree with that because officials have no impact on the outcome in any way, shape, or form.

 

[TChawk]

I'm glad the refs let them play. If they would have actually called all the fouls that happened, there would have been about 70 FTs and the game would have lasted until midnight eastern time. I enjoyed that game a lot, partly because the refs let them play it. The players seem to play harder, tougher, and they show more skills when the refs swallow their whistles.

This is the very dumbest post I have read in sometime.

 

[uihawk82]

Burks foul trouble and sitting in the first half didn't hurt them in the least. His replacement scored 17 in the first half.

I disagree as in the last 3.5 minutes of first half the 'ville clamped down on spike and Mich's offense stalled letting the 'ville make that run. Burke could break down that defense if he only had one foul. Bieline (sp?) maybe needed to do something different in that last part of first half like have hardaway play point and handle the ball most of time and go with two bigs.

No one is even talking about how when hancock slid to the side to get burke's 2nd foul that hancock travelled.