These next three games....

[ssckelley]

Are absolutely worthless. I will never understand why we have to schedule the worst teams from the crappiest conferences. Beating these teams do very little for Iowa beyond 3 wins against crap competition and what little ticket revenue they generate from these games. There are so many mid major teams that they could schedule games against, find teams that won't kill your SOS and RPI.

I know we've beaten this topic up but I felt the need to rant a little seeing Iowa is about to embark on a battle against Western Carolina tonight and then take on the mighty Savannah State and Bryant.

 

[InGoodCo]

I get what you are saying and while I wish Iowa would play some teams in the 200's rather than 300's.... some of the OOC is going to be this way. If they get the 200 RPI schools, it's not like they are going to come with a bigger name. Detriot Mercy? Hartford? W. Michigan?They've already played 4 P5 teams out of their 8 OOC schedule (1 against a Mid Major as well) and the B1G has now moved up the conference season a month early (so they are playing harder games earlier in the year). The fact, is, everyone has to do it to fill out their home schedules. Mid Majors want home and homes. This years schedule is actually a pretty big upgrade over previous seasons as they've replaced 2 cupcakes with B1G teams. Next year, they replaced UNI with Cinci. They are STILL going to have cupcakes, cause that's what teams around the country schedule.

 

[deanvogs]

I get what you are saying and while I wish Iowa would play some teams in the 200's rather than 300's.... some of the OOC is going to be this way. If they get the 200 RPI schools, it's not like they are going to come with a bigger name. Detriot Mercy? Hartford? W. Michigan?They've already played 4 P5 teams out of their 8 OOC schedule (1 against a Mid Major as well) and the B1G has now moved up the conference season a month early (so they are playing harder games earlier in the year). The fact, is, everyone has to do it to fill out their home schedules. Mid Majors want home and homes. This years schedule is actually a pretty big upgrade over previous seasons as they've replaced 2 cupcakes with B1G teams. Next year, they replaced UNI with Cinci. They are STILL going to have cupcakes, cause that's what teams around the country schedule.

We need some cupcake games, but we really need to schedule teams we feel will be in the 200ish range. That said, I don't know if the new NET system punishes teams for playing really really bad teams like the RPI did.

 

[QuadCityHawkeye]

Iowa's SOS is going to take a massive hit. Western Carolina is 309 in Ken Pom, Savannah State is 344, and Bryant is 338.

Iowa would be better off losing to a top 150 team once than any of these wins. This is why losing that Wisconsin game hurts so much. These next three games are worthless for the NCAA tournament and they can't afford losses like Wisconsin because the margin of error is very slim. Hell even a top 200 Kem Pom would do. Anything 300 or under is just worthless for your tournament hopes unless you are going to win 10-11 conference games and Iowa already sits at 0-2 there. Plus these games all in a row do nothing to get you ready for conference play.

 

[ssckelley]

I get what you are saying and while I wish Iowa would play some teams in the 200's rather than 300's.... some of the OOC is going to be this way. If they get the 200 RPI schools, it's not like they are going to come with a bigger name. Detriot Mercy? Hartford? W. Michigan?They've already played 4 P5 teams out of their 8 OOC schedule (1 against a Mid Major as well) and the B1G has now moved up the conference season a month early (so they are playing harder games earlier in the year). The fact, is, everyone has to do it to fill out their home schedules. Mid Majors want home and homes. This years schedule is actually a pretty big upgrade over previous seasons as they've replaced 2 cupcakes with B1G teams. Next year, they replaced UNI with Cinci. They are STILL going to have cupcakes, cause that's what teams around the country schedule.

I realize they will have cupcakes no matter what, it sucks but that's the way it is. But at least schedule games against the teams that are actually decent in these low major conferences. Playing a team that will likely lose 20+ games just kills the RPI, SOS, and many other rankings. These 3 teams they will be playing are among the worst.

 

[QuadCityHawkeye]

I realize they will have cupcakes no matter what, it sucks but that's the way it is. But at least schedule games against the teams that are actually decent in these low major conferences. Playing a team that will likely lose 20+ games just kills the RPI, SOS, and many other rankings. These 3 teams they will be playing are among the worst.

Not sure why they couldn't get a MAC, Summit, or WAC school for at least one of those games. There are some teams Iowa has scheduled in the past that are top 250 and that's much better than anything 300 or lower obviously. There are 353 teams in Division I. I get you can't just wave a wand and get everyone you want but three teams in a row this bad isn't good. Iowa's SOS according to Ken Pom is 176 today and it's going to fall like a rock before Jan 1st. Wouldn't be surprised if drops at least 100 spots down to 276. The sad thing is they are at 176 and that's counting already playing Iowa State, Michigan State and Wisconsin.

 

[InGoodCo]

Iowa's SOS is going to take a massive hit. Western Carolina is 309 in Ken Pom, Savannah State is 344, and Bryant is 338.

Iowa would be better off losing to a top 150 team once than any of these wins. This is why losing that Wisconsin game hurts so much. These next three games are worthless for the NCAA tournament and they can't afford losses like Wisconsin because the margin of error is very slim. Hell even a top 200 Kem Pom would do. Anything 300 or under is just worthless for your tournament hopes unless you are going to win 10-11 conference games and Iowa already sits at 0-2 there. Plus these games all in a row do nothing to get you ready for conference play.

WI is a top 10 RPI, so you can't say you would rather lose to a top 150 team than to get any of these wins and in the very next sentence say "That's why losing to WI hurts so much".

 

[ssckelley]

WI is a top 10 RPI, so you can't say you would rather lose to a top 150 team than to get any of these wins and in the very next sentence say "That's why losing to WI hurts so much".

Yeah losing on your home court is worse than beating a 300+ RPI opponent. I'm not sure how these other rankings renders them but IIRC the RPI counts home loses as 1.3. But if Iowa winds up on the bubble the committee shouldn't hold the loss to Wisconsin against us, unless they completely fall apart.

 

[InGoodCo]

Yeah losing on your home court is worse than beating a 300+ RPI opponent. I'm not sure how these other rankings renders them but IIRC the RPI counts home loses as 1.3. But if Iowa winds up on the bubble the committee shouldn't hold the loss to Wisconsin against us, unless they completely fall apart.

I was under the impression that the committee was weighing more on NET this season, so who knows. I agree, these games don't do anything for other, and they hurt more than help. My only point is Iowa isn't the only ones playing these teams, you can look at their schedule for yourself. Duke is playing cupcakes. You want Iowa to do something about it. My opinion is that wheels already rolling. The conference went 20 games and next year, UNI is gone and CINCI is in. With an exempt tourney, the Gavitt Games, the ACC/BIG challenge and ISU, there are still going to be games against shitty teams in the OOC. I wish they played tougher teams too, but it's just kind of the nature of the sport right now.

 

[lightning1]

I call him Gutless Gary for a reason. At this point, I'm shocked anyone is willing to pay good money to purchase season tickets. Your local high school games will be more entertaining than these games. But hell, I guess we got to pad our "body of work" somehow. Don't we?

 

[ssckelley]

I was under the impression that the committee was weighing more on NET this season, so who knows. I agree, these games don't do anything for other, and they hurt more than help. My only point is Iowa isn't the only ones playing these teams, you can look at their schedule for yourself. Duke is playing cupcakes. You want Iowa to do something about it. My opinion is that wheels already rolling. The conference went 20 games and next year, UNI is gone and CINCI is in. With an exempt tourney, the Gavitt Games, the ACC/BIG challenge and ISU, there are still going to be games against shitty teams in the OOC. I wish they played tougher teams too, but it's just kind of the nature of the sport right now.

I get your point but my point was to schedule better cupcakes. I get everyone is doing it but Duke only had 1 game against a 300+ RPI opponent (Stetson). Some of their other "bad" cupcakes are against Army (279) and Princeton (269) both of those teams could wind up with decent records that won't kill their SOS.

I know my complaining won't change anything and that's just "the nature of the sport right now" but I saw the next 3 games and I wanted to puke. I had to rant, it makes me feel better.

 

[PCHawk]

I get your point but my point was to schedule better cupcakes. I get everyone is doing it but Duke only had 1 game against a 300+ RPI opponent (Stetson). Some of their other "bad" cupcakes are against Army (279) and Princeton (269) both of those teams could wind up with decent records that won't kill their SOS.

I know my complaining won't change anything and that's just "the nature of the sport right now" but I saw the next 3 games and I wanted to puke. I had to rant, it makes me feel better.

It's probably a little easier for Duke to get teams to play them than it is for iowa to get the teams they want. If you could answer the question "why does Duke have any 300+ RPI teams" you would probably answer the question of why Iowa does. It is understandable that a school like iowa would end up with more really shitty teams on its schedule than a school like Duke.

 

[ssckelley]

It's probably a little easier for Duke to get teams to play them than it is for iowa to get the teams they want. If you could answer the question "why does Duke have any 300+ RPI teams" you would probably answer the question of why Iowa does. It is understandable that a school like iowa would end up with more really shitty teams on its schedule than a school like Duke.

Iowa State also only scheduled 1 team with an RPI of over 300, Illinois only scheduled 1 game against an RPI +300. So I'm not buying that it's easier for Duke.

 

[QuadCityHawkeye]

WI is a top 10 RPI, so you can't say you would rather lose to a top 150 team than to get any of these wins and in the very next sentence say "That's why losing to WI hurts so much".

Wisconsin hurts for the conference record. The committee will look at that before non-conference.

 

[InGoodCo]

Wisconsin hurts for the conference record. The committee will look at that before non-conference.

At large teams are going to have much worse blemishes than a loss to a top 10 team at home, it hurts because we're 0-2, but NCAA teams lose to good teams all the time. The WI loss hurts cause we're Iowa fans and we know we could have won that game but didn't finish. It doesn't really "hurt" our resume, I will agree that winning it would have helped a lot more tho.

 

[JG10Hawk]

1. Team Value Index - No clue what actually is involved in their formula to decide what "good teams" are. It sounds similar to #4 but with an unknown element of whatever a "good team" is. Appears to have a SOS element but it's not defined.

2. Net Efficiency - Simple enough, it's the net margin of efficiency (offense and defense) based on the number of possessions. No SOS element here so same reward for dominating a bad team as it is for dominating a good team.

3. Winning Percentage - In it's simplest form. Again no SOS element here.

4. Adjusted Winning Percentage - Brought in from the RPI, you are rewarded/least punished for road wins/losses the most, then neutral wins/losses, and rewarded the least/punished the most by home wins/losses. No SOS element.

5. Scoring Margin - Again in its simplest terms but capped at 10. Games that go into OT are capped at positive/negative 1. No SOS element so beating a really good team on the road by 10+ and beating a really bad team at home by 10+ is worth the same.

Summary - Unless the information that has been released is inaccurate, there is no SOS element involved outside of #1. The "Team Value Index" term of "good team" is the only unknown. There is no opponent's winning percentage or opponent's opponent winning percentage component involved like the RPI had unless of course this is the "good team" metric mentioned in #1.

See below, it looks like the NET favors the teams with no losses more than Kenpom and Sagarin do.

 

[Northside Hawk]

And what happens if, God forbid, someone goes down with a serious injury in one of these games. I can still see Michael Ingram, who would have been a valuable rotation player in the 1988-89 season, destroying his knee with twelve seconds to go in a game that Iowa was winning by almost fifty.

These guys can sleepwalk through these next three games and still win by twenty or more. Sometimes, that's exactly how players get hurt.

 

[PCHawk]

Iowa State also only scheduled 1 team with an RPI of over 300, Illinois only scheduled 1 game against an RPI +300. So I'm not buying that it's easier for Duke.

How can you not buy that? You dont think a small school would rather play Duke than Iowa? Of course they would. Finding some examples of other programs that have done a better job of scheduling doesn't change that blatantly obvious fact.

 

[InGoodCo]

Everyone wants to play Duke. It's prestige and if you by chance play well or upset them, it's a huge bonus. You're on ESPN, top 10 plays and the talk of social media. If you upset Iowa people are really mad on Hawkeyenation and call our AD gutless and stuff.

 

[kicker22]

Everyone wants to play Duke. It's prestige and if you by chance play well or upset them, it's a huge bonus. You're on ESPN, top 10 plays and the talk of social media. If you upset Iowa people are really mad on Hawkeyenation and call our AD gutless and stuff.

You really think they call out Barta simply because they are upset about a loss? Losses aside, I'm pretty sure there's a reason Barta gets hammered on here.