The world we live in...

[Seth53]

I agree when a company has to sell warranties and use that as a main selling point, that can be a red flag. In my city/area, we lived with what you mentioned. The local solar company just up and quit and there was a huge mess with open accounts that they apparently weren't gunna fill. I wonder how the warranties worked out with the people they served in the past.

The warranty wasn't their main selling point. It was an "oh by the way, here's how well they're engineered."
(AES and Eagle Point)

These thing have zero moving parts. They just sit there and make me money every hour of every day.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

And yes, some go out of business. Moxie in the Quad cities is one such case.

This is the company I am referring to, and they were based out of North Liberty.

 

[Seth53]

Good to know and good information. If people take the time to look when out driving around in neighborhoods, you do see systems on roofs more than you would typically notice

It's a fascinating field, full of engineering, research, politics, economics, environmental issues, on and on.
They have lab panels that make juice during rain storms. They have roof panels that look like shingles to appease persnickety HOA's. They are developing windows which capture UV and convert it to juice. They're developing house paint that does the same thing. Buck Rogers stuff.

Distributed (single home/building) solar is a disruptor to the old-guard monopoly-protected utilities. Like the horse and buggy industries of old, old-guard utilities' current business models are already obsolete. Solar is just hastening that along.

Google Eagle Point Solar and see how they took on a massive Iowa energy company (Alliant) and won. Went all the way to the Iowa Supreme court. Cool stuff.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

The warranty wasn't their main selling point. It was an "oh by the way, here's how well they're engineered."
(AES and Eagle Point)

These thing have zero moving parts. They just sit there and make me money every hour of every day.

I've heard Eagle Point is pretty good and a solid company. Nice to hear you've had great experiences. I also think it really could be a nice option/investment for a private citizen or smaller scale.

 

[Seth53]

I've heard Eagle Point is pretty good and a solid company. Nice to hear you've had great experiences. I also think it really could be a nice option/investment for a private citizen or smaller scale.

Eagle has been great. Darryl is a top-notch salesman and has been stellar in guiding us through this most recent evolution. ComEd has been difficult to say the least. Not surprising.

 

[HawkGold]

Carbon credits for farms is a huge joke. Basically they've price in cover crops and the yield drag. Their is no incentive for most farmers on good ground to do it. It isn't to help farmers. It gives a way for old companies and others to pay penance for polluting. As it stands if you are already doing practices that sequester carbon uou get nothing.

As a farm manager I hate it when owners want to participate in wind turbines and solar. Most of the companies are like dealing with used car lots.

All those cables and concrete are never coming out of the ground.

 

[HawkGold]

On home panels has anyone actually measured or have real data on emf s?

 

[okeefe4prez]

Distributed (single home/building) solar is a disruptor to the old-guard monopoly-protected utilities. Like the horse and buggy industries of old, old-guard utilities' current business models are already obsolete. Solar is just hastening that along.

I'm not so sure. There are baseload needs that are gonna take another few decades to work around and if people have EVs and want to charge at home that is gonna require a lot of solar.

 

[okeefe4prez]

As a farm manager I hate it when owners want to participate in wind turbines and solar. Most of the companies are like dealing with used car lots.

My dad manages my grandma's land and he got approached by "MidAmerican" to put some turbines up. He sent me the contract and said "there's a non-zero chance that if we do this you and your cousin are gonna have to deal with this in a decade or two when me and your grandma are dead, so what do you think?"

I took one look at the contract and said no way. The credit worthy entity that we've all heard of is never the counterparty on those contracts. It's always some remote subsidiary that they could sell on a whim. There are contractual covenants to remove the structure and return the ground to its original state, but there is no way to judge the ability of those companies to actually perform as they've agreed. When they are standing them up and there is a steady stream of subsidies from Uncle Sugar it is easy to understand their motivation, but they have absolutely no economic incentive to assist with the takedown and they told my dad to take a hike when he said he would do it with a parent guarantee from Berkshire Hathaway, the company that actually owns MidAmerican. The cynic in me thinks there's gonna be a big problem with decommissioning those things on a massive scale.

 

[Fryowa]

All those cables and concrete are never coming out of the ground.

Not entirely true.

The cables from the windmills, to the respective junctions, to the main trunk line come out. I've been part of some crews doing that work. Believe it or not there are wind farms that have gone through their life spans and are getting decommissioned. More now than ever actually.

The cables all come out because 1) it's in their contracts, and 2) if you ever look at an electrical schematic for a wind farm as a whole the cables aren't laid in an organized mater. It's point to point in the shortest possible path to save cable costs. If a utility ever wanted to put windmills back up on that land they'd never be able to because they'd hit cable and ruin trenchers every ten minutes. You don't do directional boring on those jobs because it takes way to long and would cost 10 times as much.

Windmill foundations you couldn't get that concrete out if you tried. It would take a fairly large bunker buster missile to even make a dent and that's not exaggeration. I worked with Zond and Vestas pretty extensively and those crews put foundations in of around 1,500 tons of concrete minus the rebar and steel column in the middle of it. Most people don't know how big the foundations are. The size of the bases around the Midwest are about 20-25 feet deep and 80-90 feet in diameter. Some are much bigger when you get into sandier subsoil.

When windmills are decommissioned the contracts say the bases have to be ground down to 24-36" below the typical grade including the bolts, and that's exactly what they do.

But cables? They all come out.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Carbon credits for farms is a huge joke. Basically they've price in cover crops and the yield drag. Their is no incentive for most farmers on good ground to do it. It isn't to help farmers. It gives a way for old companies and others to pay penance for polluting. As it stands if you are already doing practices that sequester carbon uou get nothing.

As a farm manager I hate it when owners want to participate in wind turbines and solar. Most of the companies are like dealing with used car lots.

All those cables and concrete are never coming out of the ground.

This is my concern, the ground and production that is lost for farming. This is huge in a state like Iowa. Do and will the energy savings ever pay off or make it worthwhile in the end as far as efficiency?

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Not entirely true.

The cables from the windmills, to the respective junctions, to the main trunk line come out. I've been part of some crews doing that work. Believe it or not there are wind farms that have gone through their life spans and are getting decommissioned. More now than ever actually.

The cables all come out because 1) it's in their contracts, and 2) if you ever look at an electrical schematic for a wind farm as a whole the cables aren't laid in an organized mater. It's point to point in the shortest possible path to save cable costs. If a utility ever wanted to put windmills back up on that land they'd never be able to because they'd hit cable and ruin trenchers every ten minutes. You don't do directional boring on those jobs because it takes way to long and would cost 10 times as much.

Windmill foundations you couldn't get that concrete out if you tried. It would take a fairly large bunker buster missile to even make a dent and that's not exaggeration. I worked with Zond and Vestas pretty extensively and those crews put foundations in of around 1,500 tons of concrete minus the rebar and steel column in the middle of it. Most people don't know how big the foundations are. The size of the bases around the Midwest are about 20-25 feet deep and 80-90 feet in diameter. Some are much bigger when you get into sandier subsoil.

When windmills are decommissioned the contracts say the bases have to be ground down to 24-36" below the typical grade including the bolts, and that's exactly what they do.

But cables? They all come out.

View attachment 9837

Holy chit!

 

[HawkGold]

Not entirely true.

The cables from the windmills, to the respective junctions, to the main trunk line come out. I've been part of some crews doing that work. Believe it or not there are wind farms that have gone through their life spans and are getting decommissioned. More now than ever actually.

The cables all come out because 1) it's in their contracts, and 2) if you ever look at an electrical schematic for a wind farm as a whole the cables aren't laid in an organized mater. It's point to point in the shortest possible path to save cable costs. If a utility ever wanted to put windmills back up on that land they'd never be able to because they'd hit cable and ruin trenchers every ten minutes. You don't do directional boring on those jobs because it takes way to long and would cost 10 times as much.

Windmill foundations you couldn't get that concrete out if you tried. It would take a fairly large bunker buster missile to even make a dent and that's not exaggeration. I worked with Zond and Vestas pretty extensively and those crews put foundations in of around 1,500 tons of concrete minus the rebar and steel column in the middle of it. Most people don't know how big the foundations are. The size of the bases around the Midwest are about 20-25 feet deep and 80-90 feet in diameter. Some are much bigger when you get into sandier subsoil.

When windmills are decommissioned the contracts say the bases have to be ground down to 24-36" below the typical grade including the bolts, and that's exactly what they do.

But cables? They all come out.

View attachment 9837

Quite a pic. The cables remain to be seen with recent contracts. Point taken, but most contracts I've read don't secure that.

 

[HawkGold]

This is my concern, the ground and production that is lost for farming. This is huge in a state like Iowa. Do and will the energy savings ever pay off or make it worthwhile in the end as far as efficiency?

Total efficiency, no idea. For owners, I discourage it, but some do it anyway. I prefer the wood supported panels as they can be broken off and deteriorate over time. People don't think they are very strong, which individually they aren't but as a collective, they are quite strong.

I'm OK with solar and wind. Just not on the prime ground. Only problem is that bigger populations in the MW tend to be near prime ground, especially IL.

 

[HawkGold]

My dad manages my grandma's land and he got approached by "MidAmerican" to put some turbines up. He sent me the contract and said "there's a non-zero chance that if we do this you and your cousin are gonna have to deal with this in a decade or two when me and your grandma are dead, so what do you think?"

I took one look at the contract and said no way. The credit worthy entity that we've all heard of is never the counterparty on those contracts. It's always some remote subsidiary that they could sell on a whim. There are contractual covenants to remove the structure and return the ground to its original state, but there is no way to judge the ability of those companies to actually perform as they've agreed. When they are standing them up and there is a steady stream of subsidies from Uncle Sugar it is easy to understand their motivation, but they have absolutely no economic incentive to assist with the takedown and they told my dad to take a hike when he said he would do it with a parent guarantee from Berkshire Hathaway, the company that actually owns MidAmerican. The cynic in me thinks there's gonna be a big problem with decommissioning those things on a massive scale.

Basically I'm in agreement on the decommissioning. Fry apparently has seen decommissioning. I haven't yet. 25-50 years is a long time. The original turbines are so small compared to today in general.

 

[Seth53]

I'm not so sure. There are baseload needs that are gonna take another few decades to work around and if people have EVs and want to charge at home that is gonna require a lot of solar.

If enough people opt for solar *and* batteries at their residences and/or businesses, eventually the utilities lose their base if you will. People will disconnect from the grid.

I see a future where utilities concentrate on energy transmission versus production. Not in my lifetime but my grandkids' perhaps.

Utilities don't hate green, they just want to control it.

Iowa Supreme Court rules in favor of third party solar | Energy News Network

The Iowa Supreme Court ruling on the Eagle Point Solar case could be a boon for third party financing of solar rooftop installations nationwide.

energynews.us

As I mentioned in a previous post, the above dcumented legal decision was a huge win for solar....the first of its kind and was watched by the nation. I believe you barristers refer to it as a landmark case. The dominoes are indeed lining up IMO.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

If enough people opt for solar *and* batteries at their residences and/or businesses, eventually the utilities lose their base if you will. People will disconnect from the grid.

I see a future where utilities concentrate on energy transmission versus production. Not in my lifetime but my grandkids' perhaps.

Utilities don't hate green, they just want to control it.

Iowa Supreme Court rules in favor of third party solar | Energy News Network

The Iowa Supreme Court ruling on the Eagle Point Solar case could be a boon for third party financing of solar rooftop installations nationwide.

energynews.us

As I mentioned in a previous post, the above dcumented legal decision was a huge win for solar....the first of its kind and was watched by the nation. I believe you barristers refer to it as a landmark case. The dominoes are indeed lining up IMO.

What do you do with all the lithium battery waste or whatever technology would happen? I mean if 80% EV did come to fruition, what the heck do we do with all the dead batteries? I am surprised that is not more of a topic of discussion, especially for the greenies. Isn't that going to be a huge issue to navigate? I don't think one can just throw batteries away in the landfill.

 

[okeefe4prez]

What do you do with all the lithium battery waste or whatever technology would happen? I mean if 80% EV did come to fruition, what the heck do we do with all the dead batteries? I am surprised that is not more of a topic of discussion, especially for the greenies. Isn't that going to be a huge issue to navigate? I don't think one can just throw batteries away in the landfill.

You sound like one of those people who says "you can't just dump used motor oil in the alley." Wanna bet?

 

[Seth53]

What do you do with all the lithium battery waste or whatever technology would happen? I mean if 80% EV did come to fruition, what the heck do we do with all the dead batteries? I am surprised that is not more of a topic of discussion, especially for the greenies. Isn't that going to be a huge issue to navigate? I don't think one can just throw batteries away in the landfill.

I'm a glass half full kind of guy...I believe there will eventually be a recycling answer to this.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I'm a glass half full kind of guy...I believe there will eventually be a recycling answer to this.

Of course there will be, just like there is a recycling answer to glass and plastic, neither of which ever get recycled because it's far more expensive than making product anew.