The Truth behind 40 times
- Thread starter JonDMiller
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JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
If you are faster than someone else in pads, you have an advantage. TMart is clearly faster than many of the guys chasing him.
But he, like Denard, is a bit fragile. Might be unfair to say that though since Denard had a lot of carries per game. Too many for his frame
But he, like Denard, is a bit fragile. Might be unfair to say that though since Denard had a lot of carries per game. Too many for his frame
Did you even read the article, or are you just making an interpretation based on a headline? T-Mart is fast, but I think the point is there are no sub 4.4 guys in the NFL if you timed them properly. Julio Jones does not run a real 4.38, similar to Clayborn not running a 4.8. These times a skewed low. Really, you just have to hope that everyone at the event is consisitent with their timing method, and you get a relative idea of speed amongst the participants. Nothing more. In that regard T-Mart is still fast, and so is Clayborn for his position.
ICHawk24
Well-Known Member
The times are somewhat fictional, but they are all compiled as part of the same universe of inflated times. So when comparing draft propects, they ALL have times created as part of this universal inflation, so they are accurate enough when comparing them between each other.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
While I can go a bit with you on the comparative world, are the times stopes at the finish line manually? If so there is human error factor and it's not the same
Yes I did read it. But I also saw Coker outrun Mizzery's secondary. I watched T-mart out run some teams as well. You are right the numbers are scewed and if they can be wrong by almost .5 down they can be off by .5 up as well. I was being smart about "how fast" Nebby is. Yes t-mart and Dennard can run, I have never said they couldnt. Like the article says, how fast can they run compared to everyone else playing. I asked that of a Nebby fan before. (over 90% of D1 players was the answer).
Me I would rather have a back that has trained to carry the ball, runs up tp .5 slower and has 25-30+ more lbs. But hey thats me.
Me I would rather have a back that has trained to carry the ball, runs up tp .5 slower and has 25-30+ more lbs. But hey thats me.
trj
Well-Known Member
Watch the film that is all you need to know. Can he separate? Is he explosive? What type of first step does he have? Can he make people miss in space? Those are the questions you need to ask.
Tim Dwight ran a 4.6 forty at the combine. Anyone who remotely followed Iowa football would tell you if he wasn't the fastest guy on the field every Saturday he was 2nd or 3rd.
Tim Dwight ran a 4.6 forty at the combine. Anyone who remotely followed Iowa football would tell you if he wasn't the fastest guy on the field every Saturday he was 2nd or 3rd.
Exactly Jon!! What are we comparing then? The reaction time of the person running the watch?
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
You just sunk Morningside's battleship...they thought they were going to get a RB with 4.28 speed this fall.
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
You got it. So the guys running blazing times in the low 4.3's are actually running closer to high 4.4's/low 4.5's...potentially even higher when you consider the stop times are manual as well.
trj
Well-Known Member
Wegher should still dominate unless he is playing with some straight up scrubs.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Fact of the matter is, 40 times are only "valid" within similar conditions, i.e., you can compare all the guys who run at the combine to each other, but not to those who run at college pro days (accurately, anyway).
It gets back to this: speed CAN be great. If it isn't accompanied by decent size, work ethic, an ability to get open or read coverages or read offensive sets, it's worth no more than a 6'3" 300 nose tackle who can't--or won't--utilize his size or quickness to stuff the run or shake off a block.
ICHawk24
Well-Known Member
They are manual. It is amusing to see all the scouts with stopwatches clustered around the finish line.
Also agree with others than you can compare combine times to other combine times, but not to individual pro days. The track conditions are such a huge factor and so divergent between pro days. Heck, DJK was running times in some warehouse/workout facility in IC.
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
trj
Well-Known Member
I don't know if I can go quite there.......speed is a difference maker. Save the Paul Chaney stuff. Don't get it twisted, don't let that article fool you speed matters.
Well, look at this quote from a Husker site and figure in what this really says and how it relates to this convo. The "paul" they are refering to is Niles Paul (5th round to the Redskins). Shaun is ofcourse Prater.
"This summer — like every summer — he's been working out with Paul, a fifth-round pick of the Washington Redskins, at Omaha Central. One-on-one in the sun. At 6-1, 220, Paul's big. He has straight-line speed. And, for three years, he worked against Pelini-style corners.
“He's pretty strong,” Shaun said, smiling. “But I usually do a pretty good job.”
Shaun's fast, Paul said. As fast as any Husker corner. Equal to Prince Amukamara, the recent first-round NFL draft pick who became friends with Shaun through Paul."
"This summer — like every summer — he's been working out with Paul, a fifth-round pick of the Washington Redskins, at Omaha Central. One-on-one in the sun. At 6-1, 220, Paul's big. He has straight-line speed. And, for three years, he worked against Pelini-style corners.
“He's pretty strong,” Shaun said, smiling. “But I usually do a pretty good job.”
Shaun's fast, Paul said. As fast as any Husker corner. Equal to Prince Amukamara, the recent first-round NFL draft pick who became friends with Shaun through Paul."
tm3308
Well-Known Member
That article is six years old. And it seems to be going after the hand-timed 40's. When it's hand-timed, it's never accurate. But the combine goes off of computer times, and the clock starts on first movement, not by a starter's pistol. The article even said that the average reaction time to the gun for an elite sprinter is about .15 seconds. So, if Ben Johnson were to have run that "40-yard dash" under the same conditions as NFL prospects do now, he would have had a time of 4.23 seconds, not 4.38.
Also, plenty of people are faster in the 40 than the 100 meters. By that I mean, you can take two guys, and one of them might win the first 40 yards, but the other will win the race. That sort of thing is hardly uncommon.
Now when it comes to a lot of the legendary times before they started using computer times at the combine, those are probably bogus. But the times being run now are legit, and there are still some sub-4.4 times every year. It's easy to fool the stopwatch. Not so easy to fool the computer.
Edit: For those who are wondering, the reason that they run 40 yards is because that is about the average distance of a punt, and 4.5 seconds is a good hang time (which nearly every punter in the NFL should be able to manage). So, coaches look for guys who can cover those 40 yards in 4.5 seconds or less.
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okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Given Aaron Ross's lightning quick 40 times, I have used some back of the envelope calculations to conclude that Andy Brodell can run a sub 4 40.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ghxMRagbRI]WR Andy Brodell Highlights‏ - YouTube[/ame]
Oh man, I love watching these highlights of O'Keefe's well-timed WR screens going for big gains. If only we would have had an Andy Brodell caliber WR on the 2010 team so O'Keefe could have called one when 'Zona kept blitzing, the season may have turned out completely different.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ghxMRagbRI]WR Andy Brodell Highlights‏ - YouTube[/ame]
Oh man, I love watching these highlights of O'Keefe's well-timed WR screens going for big gains. If only we would have had an Andy Brodell caliber WR on the 2010 team so O'Keefe could have called one when 'Zona kept blitzing, the season may have turned out completely different.
