The problem with Trump

NCHawker

Well-Known Member
The guy is uncoachable. He was and has always been unprepared. Unwilling and unable to master a set of facts or data and speak with any specificity. Does he think people are stupid? You can't expect to win over enough people with spouting off broad generaliziations and saying "its awesome" "you're horrible" "everyone thinks" "everyone agrees". It would be funny if only the stakes were not so high.

I'm not a Democrat, actually I don't belong to a party.

on a lighter note, I'm amused that people say "I'm a registered independent" - there is no such thing. You register with a party or you dont.

What it takes to get elected is not the same as what it takes to govern. (not rule). We're not electing a king or emperor or a pope either.

that should be enought to light up the forum
 
The guy is uncoachable. He was and has always been unprepared. Unwilling and unable to master a set of facts or data and speak with any specificity. Does he think people are stupid? You can't expect to win over enough people with spouting off broad generaliziations and saying "its awesome" "you're horrible" "everyone thinks" "everyone agrees". It would be funny if only the stakes were not so high.

I'm not a Democrat, actually I don't belong to a party.

on a lighter note, I'm amused that people say "I'm a registered independent" - there is no such thing. You register with a party or you dont.

What it takes to get elected is not the same as what it takes to govern. (not rule). We're not electing a king or emperor or a pope either.

that should be enought to light up the forum
He's gotten worse in that regard too. There were a lot of times last night where he started down the right track and then drifted of to generalizations. I think he loses his train of thought more often now. It's too bad because it would be so easy for a good debater.
 
Whats up with the immigrants eating pets story? Is it a true story, a planted story by Republicans to make Democrats look bad, or a planted story by Democrats to make Trump look dumb for bringing it up? I could see all three options being true.
 
I found both of them intolerable last night. He stated "truths" over and over that had no truth in them and she reacted like a teenager getting a "talking to" by a parent she hates. And I just don't think she agrees with most of what she states what her platform will be.
 
I found both of them intolerable last night. He stated "truths" over and over that had no truth in them and she reacted like a teenager getting a "talking to" by a parent she hates. And I just don't think she agrees with most of what she states what her platform will be.
What are some examples of times you think he was lying? I heard two times where Harris straight up lied (fine people on both sides and bloodbath) but I'm not sure which things Trump said thar were complete lies. He obvious exaggerates the shit out of everything. Maybe that's what you mean.
 
What are some examples of times you think he was lying? I heard two times where Harris straight up lied (fine people on both sides and bloodbath) but I'm not sure which things Trump said thar were complete lies. He obvious exaggerates the shit out of everything. Maybe that's what you mean.
There may be different ways to categorize his claim that immigrants are eating pets. I'd call that a lie.
 
What are some examples of times you think he was lying? I heard two times where Harris straight up lied (fine people on both sides and bloodbath) but I'm not sure which things Trump said thar were complete lies. He obvious exaggerates the shit out of everything. Maybe that's what you mean.
Here are a few from factcheck.org

  • Trump repeated his unsupported claim that “millions of people” are “pouring into our country from prisons, jails, from mental institutions and insane asylums.” And he said these migrants were “taking jobs” from “African Americans and Hispanics and also unions.” Employment and union membership data show no evidence of that, either.
  • Trump repeated his false claim that everyone — liberals and conservatives — wanted to end Roe v. Wade’s constitutional right to abortion.
  • The former president repeatedly said Democrats, including vice presidential candidate Tim Walz, were in favor of abortion “in the ninth month” — or even after birth. Abortion that late is exceedingly rare, and abortion after birth does not exist. It’s homicide, and it’s illegal.
  • Trump again falsely claimed that fraud was responsible for his loss in the 2020 election, and wrongly claimed that none of his lawsuits making that allegation had been decided on the merits.
  • Trump falsely claimed that Harris “has a flat plan to confiscate everybody’s guns.” Harris has not called for taking away all guns, and her campaign said she no longer supports a mandatory buyback program for so-called “assault weapons.”
  • Trump falsely claimed that Harris was sent “to negotiate peace” between Russia and Ukraine in February 2022. Days before Russia invaded Ukraine that month, Harris met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskky in Germany. She did not meet with Putin, as Trump said.

Harris also had a number of things that were fact checked as well.

You can look those up on that website. The Trump lies that particularly stood out to me related to abortion after birth (!), which is illegal and homicide, that liberals wanted to end Roe v. Wade (that's a whopper of a lie), the aforementioned eating of animals in Ohio, and that Harris would "take everyone's guns." That's been a consistent point of disinformation from Trump and the NRA for years.

Hope that helps.
 
Boy Howdy, that damn woman sure Kicked that Fat Boy's Ass

That damn woman made me Cringe over and over

Damn Bully Woman, should have shown some respect for his AGE, at least
 
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I also think the moderation of the debate will validate in many people's mind mainstream media's bias.
I have a couple of questions on that:

1. What were some examples of bias in terms of the moderation?
2. Do Republicans think Fox and Newsmax are unbiased, and virtually every other news source is biased?

These are honest questions. Hearing things you don't want to hear is not always the same thing as being biased.

To be fair, there is a lot of bias in media, unfortunately. First off, it's corporate, and relies on advertising revenue from companies that have interests.
 
I have a couple of questions on that:

1. What were some examples of bias in terms of the moderation?
2. Do Republicans think Fox and Newsmax are unbiased, and virtually every other news source is biased?

These are honest questions. Hearing things you don't want to hear is not always the same thing as being biased.

To be fair, there is a lot of bias in media, unfortunately. First off, it's corporate, and relies on advertising revenue from companies that have interests.
1. I think they asked questions that they knew would trigger him (shame on him for not being disciplined) and some softball ones for her.

2. Absolutely Fox News and NewsMax biased too. That's why I read articles from both sides.

I'm not saying ABC was extremely biased, only that ones that think that would have it confirmed.
 
1. I think they asked questions that they knew would trigger him (shame on him for not being disciplined) and some softball ones for her.

2. Absolutely Fox News and NewsMax biased too. That's why I read articles from both sides.

I'm not saying ABC was extremely biased, only that ones that think that would have it confirmed.
Thanks. Appreciate the thoughtful response.

Tricky thing with Trump, he's like... permanently triggered in my opinion. He calls into Fox and goes on massive rants and they try to contain that, and they are arguably trying to be his cheerleaders. Like you said, some of that is on him.
 
Here are a few from factcheck.org

  • Trump repeated his unsupported claim that “millions of people” are “pouring into our country from prisons, jails, from mental institutions and insane asylums.” And he said these migrants were “taking jobs” from “African Americans and Hispanics and also unions.” Employment and union membership data show no evidence of that, either.
  • Trump repeated his false claim that everyone — liberals and conservatives — wanted to end Roe v. Wade’s constitutional right to abortion.
  • The former president repeatedly said Democrats, including vice presidential candidate Tim Walz, were in favor of abortion “in the ninth month” — or even after birth. Abortion that late is exceedingly rare, and abortion after birth does not exist. It’s homicide, and it’s illegal.
  • Trump again falsely claimed that fraud was responsible for his loss in the 2020 election, and wrongly claimed that none of his lawsuits making that allegation had been decided on the merits.
  • Trump falsely claimed that Harris “has a flat plan to confiscate everybody’s guns.” Harris has not called for taking away all guns, and her campaign said she no longer supports a mandatory buyback program for so-called “assault weapons.”
  • Trump falsely claimed that Harris was sent “to negotiate peace” between Russia and Ukraine in February 2022. Days before Russia invaded Ukraine that month, Harris met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskky in Germany. She did not meet with Putin, as Trump said.

Harris also had a number of things that were fact checked as well.

You can look those up on that website. The Trump lies that particularly stood out to me related to abortion after birth (!), which is illegal and homicide, that liberals wanted to end Roe v. Wade (that's a whopper of a lie), the aforementioned eating of animals in Ohio, and that Harris would "take everyone's guns." That's been a consistent point of disinformation from Trump and the NRA for years.

Hope that helps.
I see stories all the time on X of illegal criminals who committed crimes here. Also stories at the boarder where these criminals are coming in. It's possible all of those stories are fake. But it's also possible they're true. The point is, it's a big story right now. It's not Trump's lie.

The "everyone wants abortions" claim falls more into the exaggeration category that every politician does.

The after birth abortion claim comes from the ex governor of Virgina (who he specifically mentioned) saying it. A politician finding the most extreme example and pretending it's more common than it is is also something that both sides do. I just watched a video today of a lady in court trying to pass a bill that states its legal to get an abortion while the mother is in labor. So again, there are democrats for that. Trump acting like all democrats want that is the exact same as Harris acting like all Republicans want to get rid of IVF and birth control just because there are stories of a select few that do. It's not a lie, it's an exaggeration.

The 2020 election is a tough one for a lot of reasons. One side says all arguments were heard and then struck down and the other side said everything was struck down before they were even looked at. One thing I know is how the 2000 election was allowed to be contested after and how the 2020 one wasn't was a pretty big difference. I can't call that a lie at all even tho I understand how the other side would say it is. To me, I just don't understand how anyone can know how much money and power are involved here and still assume there isn't cheating. Especially with the use of mail in voting because of covid. People cheat for way less and it's already well documented our government interferes in other countries elections.

There are lots of videos out there of Harris and Waltz saying they want to get rid of guns. Saying they don't want to right before an election isn't something you should trust.

I heard Trump say Putin too, but I think he misspoke since it's well-known that the Biden administration hasn't talked to Putin at all, which is pretty damning for them. I think his point still holds true even tho Putin wasn't talked to. One last effort to prevent a war, and then it starts a couple days later. Thats a pretty good talking point to use politically, even tho he butchered it by saying Putin.

Again, there are politicians trying to do abortion after birth (Virginal Governor) so saying it isn't a lie, it's an exaggeration on how many democrats want it.

The eating pets story is a very weird one. That story was thrown out all over X days before the debate. There are three possibilities. One is it's true and democrats are clearly trying to cover it up for political reasons. Another possibility is Republicans put the story out there to make democrats look bad. The third option (the one I think happened) is democrats put that story out there right before the debate to set up Trump for exactly what happened.

Here's the reason I think that is what happened. When Trump said it, the moderator said he fact checked that story and some town cop spokesman said it wasn't true. But than Harris was acting like she never heard such a thing and Trump is crazy for making it up. Well that doesn't make any sense because the story was big enough for ABC news to look into it, so how is she acting so surprised to hear it? They made a mistake there. If they want to say Trump is a crazy man for making up such a crazy story, you can't say the story was already looked into and it's not true. That immediately proves it wasn't Trump's story, it was a "legit" one that deserved looking into. When Harris says a debunked story like the "very fine people" one, the proper response is exactly what Trump did. Simply say that story isn't true. Imagine if Trump started laughing pretending like he's never heard of such a thing and saying Harris just invented that out of thin air. The fact that a legit news organization looked into the story before the debate really screws up the picture they were wanting to paint there. The point is, it wasn't a Trump lie. Worst case scenario it was Trump falling for a news story that just came out and ended up being false.
 
I also think the moderation of the debate will validate in many people's mind mainstream media's bias.
Bull shit. The bias was relevant in Trump’s favor when he was allowed to ramble on for several minutes more than Harris was allowed to speak. Gutless moderators should have shut him down and told him to follow the rules he agreed to. Then allow Harris another 6 or 7 minutes for rebuttals.
 
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Bull shit. The bias was relevant in Trump’s favor when he was allowed to ramble on for several minutes more than Harris was allowed to speak. Gutless moderators should have shut him down and told him to follow the rules he agreed to. Then allow Harris another 6 or 7 minutes for rebuttals.
I noticed this as well. For about the last 45 minutes, Trump was allowed to have the last word on just about every question asked, except for one, that I can think of. He figured out the moderators (or whoever was controlling the mics) wouldn't shut his mic down when Harris got done speaking, so whenever Harris got done talking he would respond and they let him talk -- I couldn't believe it. Getting the last word in is a HUGE advantage in any debate, as is dominating the time allowed to speak. This weird behavior by the mic controllers allowed Trump to come off much better the last 45 min than he did the first 45. I'd love for anyone saying the moderators were biased toward Harris to discover how much more time Trump spoke over the last 45 min and then make that claim.
 

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