The Potentially Dancing With Myself, Stand Against Site Apathy Game Thread

STILLBUSTER said:
I agree with every point you wrote, exactly to the man in the rotation.
Not quite as high on young Sandfort and would lean much heavier on Dix.
I'd might even go with Dembele over P-Mac ... FAR more athletic and (in the most simplistic terms) very similar production.
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Young Sandfort is pretty skinny yet so I wouldn't play him over Dix much at all yet either. But he can play some like he has been.

And yes Dembele should benefit from the subtraction of P-Macs mins as much as anyone. Ideally it'd be nice if PM would just rebound more and play smarter out there. His game is just so far different then what Connors was. Harding is about the only guy that can feed the post very well.
 
InGoodCo said:
I wouldn't completely write the dance off for this team, but setting your expectations as that being the goal is fair still imo. Iowa has a lot of winnable games left on the schedule, and just high enough level teams to continue to build their resume (Nebraska, Wisconsin, Purdue at Carver, Rutgers, Minne, Northwestern, Ohio State, IL, Michigan State) - any wins in that pool are going to be good resume wins.

I realize it's looked bad so far, but Iowa is playing a lot of new pieces. Not that shocking that they haven't really put it all together yet and it leaves me a little hope that the team will see substantial growth as the season unfolds.

Their losses in hindsight don't look real bad.
Loss to Ken Pom # 4 Purdue
Loss to Ken Pom #5 Iowa State
Loss to Ken Pom # 8 Creighton
Loss to Ken Pom # 21 Oklahoma (who was #7 yesterday)
Loss to Ken Pom #71 - Michigan - who will likely rise

So, while it hasn't been pretty, Iowa has played one heck of a schedule so far. I am hopeful we come out the otherside better for it. One thing is for certain, Fran has gotten his younger guys minutes and we're better moving forward because of it.
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I admire you're glass half full view of things. We can't even settle on playing the best lineup yet. Roles aren't clearly defined for some of the key guys even. I can't see them doing enough damage in league play to get in this yr. I just don't. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do but I'm just not putting those expectations on this group.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
I admire you're glass half full view of things. We can't even settle on playing the best lineup yet. Roles aren't clearly defined for some of the key guys even. I can't see them doing enough damage in league play to get in this yr. I just don't. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do but I'm just not putting those expectations on this group.
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It's not really a half glass full outlook, more based on how other years have played out for Iowa. Last year, the team went on a stretch where it lost to Eastern Illinois, Nebraska and Penn State. It was January and they were sitting at 8-6 and everyone wrote them off, myself included as I had just sat through the game in Lincoln and thought to myself, this is the worst Iowa team in close to 10 years. They started the year 0-3 in the B1G and the B1G was much better last year as a whole. I don't expect them to make the dance either based on what we've seen, I just think it's still an attainable and good goal for the team and fans to hope for. Besides Purdue at home, they aren't going to see another top 10 team all season. In fact, you could argue that the hardest part of their schedule considering the teams they've already played is basically over and now we have much more defined play from our bench with Freeman and Harding looking like they are going to be players who we weren't at all sure of a month ago

It might half full, but it's full of the same swill either way.
 
InGoodCo said:
It's not really a half glass full outlook, more based on how other years have played out for Iowa. Last year, the team went on a stretch where it lost to Eastern Illinois, Nebraska and Penn State. It was January and they were sitting at 8-6 and everyone wrote them off, myself included as I had just sat through the game in Lincoln and thought to myself, this is the worst Iowa team in close to 10 years. They started the year 0-3 in the B1G and the B1G was much better last year as a whole. I don't expect them to make the dance either based on what we've seen, I just think it's still an attainable and good goal for the team and fans to hope for. Besides Purdue at home, they aren't going to see another top 10 team all season. In fact, you could argue that the hardest part of their schedule considering the teams they've already played is basically over and now we have much more defined play from our bench with Freeman and Harding looking like they are going to be players who we weren't at all sure of a month ago

It might half full, but it's full of the same swill either way.
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Sure anything can happen and teams improve too. As I've watched this team so far I see that last yrs team had a Murray on it. The previous yrs had 2 of em. And Garza the ones before that. This yrs group has no such stud to lean on. I think we hoped that either Perkins or Sandfort could evolve into that but it doesn't look like we are going to get that. Krikke is ok and all and frankly he's been a God send to this team cause where would they be without him. But for him to be the go to scorer with expectations that he put up 17 plus every game is asking a lot.

With the rest of the guys being what they are it just makes it tough to have consistency. Especially since D and rebounding aren't a strength of theirs. We have to keep TOs low and shoot an above avg % and get to the FT line more then the other team to win games. Without a Murray, Garza and real go to guy to lean on and open it up for others it just makes it tough. We'll see how things play out.
 
Northside Hawk said:
It does. And Fran was PISSED when Jess was interviewing him post-game. Called defense "unacceptable except for the middle of the game"

Don't just say it. Do something about it. Pine time for the perpetrators.
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I Certainly agree that Fran must do something about the D. And, I think he has. We have two of the quickest point guards ever, which has been, according to posters here, a weakness. Perkins has been dialed in and has had some nice steals + rebounds, as has Harding, who gets his hands on the ball defensively with regularity. Damn kid is a real nuisance. Josh is no slouch. Had a great block Wednesday night. Freeman will learn. You have seen him block shots. A lot.

Sorry to be a pain in the ass, but, PM is a very solid D guy. He is averaging in double figures, albeit low. Almost never turns the ball over. Of course, we only had 4 on Wed nite. Low TO’s=good “hidden” D. He is being used by Fran to steady the young players. Good number of his minutes are with group 2. watch!

Rebounding: Fran has been clear that he expects Sanford and Ben and Freeman to carry the load. He wants PM to break out in transition. On the wing Using his length, as he does in the press on D. Just watch. Transition cannot be all guards. Also, our guards, especially Tony, have been more watchful on the vaunted “long rebounds. Good rebounding = better D.

I have been at all our home games. My seat is row 25, dead center court, opposite bench side. And, I look for the good and the bad with eyes that have seen thousands of Iowa games. Played a little back in the day. I watch away games on TV, which loses a lot of the reality. No guru here, but lots of experience.

Current starters, player minutes, play big, play small, switch up 3 or 4 different D’s, are decisions made by guys way above our pay grade. Deal with it.
 
BTW. If you really believe Fran is favoring his son on minutes, starting, whatever, you need to grow up and graduate from middle school.
 
STILLBUSTER said:
I agree with every point you wrote, exactly to the man in the rotation.
Not quite as high on young Sandfort and would lean much heavier on Dix.
I'd might even go with Dembele over P-Mac ... FAR more athletic and (in the most simplistic terms) very similar production.
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No way is Dembele ready. But he will get there.
 
HuckFinn said:
I Certainly agree that Fran must do something about the D. And, I think he has. We have two of the quickest point guards ever, which has been, according to posters here, a weakness. Perkins has been dialed in and has had some nice steals + rebounds, as has Harding, who gets his hands on the ball defensively with regularity. Damn kid is a real nuisance. Josh is no slouch. Had a great block Wednesday night. Freeman will learn. You have seen him block shots. A lot.

Sorry to be a pain in the ass, but, PM is a very solid D guy. He is averaging in double figures, albeit low. Almost never turns the ball over. Of course, we only had 4 on Wed nite. Low TO’s=good “hidden” D. He is being used by Fran to steady the young players. Good number of his minutes are with group 2. watch!

Rebounding: Fran has been clear that he expects Sanford and Ben and Freeman to carry the load. He wants PM to break out in transition. On the wing Using his length, as he does in the press on D. Just watch. Transition cannot be all guards. Also, our guards, especially Tony, have been more watchful on the vaunted “long rebounds. Good rebounding = better D.

I have been at all our home games. My seat is row 25, dead center court, opposite bench side. And, I look for the good and the bad with eyes that have seen thousands of Iowa games. Played a little back in the day. I watch away games on TV, which loses a lot of the reality. No guru here, but lots of experience.

Current starters, player minutes, play big, play small, switch up 3 or 4 different D’s, are decisions made by guys way above our pay grade. Deal with it.
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Peyton's rebounding has been one of the surprises of the season. He looks noticeably stronger. Perk has always been a decent enough defender as long as he isn't asked to keep jet quick point guards in front of him.

The two guys I thought could help us on the defensive end are no longer here. Ulis and Josh O. Not sure if Josh ever totally recovered from his tough covid bout. Or if he ever picked up the nuances of the offense enough. But he was a decent passer and could really body a post player off his spot. Just ask Zach Edey. But he never earned Fran's trust enough to get more than spot minutes.

The whole Ulis thing aggravates me because he was one of the seven Fran settled on when he shortened his rotation more than at any time since his first year. Pretty much totally squeezed Bowen out. Now Ulis is gone and Dasonte is still learning on the job.

Again a big game in Madison is on the horizon. Knocking off the Bucky's would be a nice resume builder for sure.
 
Northside Hawk said:
Peyton's rebounding has been one of the surprises of the season. He looks noticeably stronger. Perk has always been a decent enough defender as long as he isn't asked to keep jet quick point guards in front of him.

The two guys I thought could help us on the defensive end are no longer here. Ulis and Josh O. Not sure if Josh ever totally recovered from his tough covid bout. Or if he ever picked up the nuances of the offense enough. But he was a decent passer and could really body a post player off his spot. Just ask Zach Edey. But he never earned Fran's trust enough to get more than spot minutes.

The whole Ulis thing aggravates me because he was one of the seven Fran settled on when he shortened his rotation more than at any time since his first year. Pretty much totally squeezed Bowen out. Now Ulis is gone and Dasonte is still learning on the job.

Again a big game in Madison is on the horizon. Knocking off the Bucky's would be a nice resume builder for sure.
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Dix and Dembele are big improvements over Josh and Ulis.
 
HuckFinn said:
Dix and Dembele are big improvements over Josh and Ulis.
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Excited to see them grow this year. Along with about four others. If they stick to it they could be a completely different team in February than they showed against ISU or Michigan. Just one big win could get them around the corner.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Sure anything can happen and teams improve too. As I've watched this team so far I see that last yrs team had a Murray on it. The previous yrs had 2 of em. And Garza the ones before that. This yrs group has no such stud to lean on. I think we hoped that either Perkins or Sandfort could evolve into that but it doesn't look like we are going to get that. Krikke is ok and all and frankly he's been a God send to this team cause where would they be without him. But for him to be the go to scorer with expectations that he put up 17 plus every game is asking a lot.

With the rest of the guys being what they are it just makes it tough to have consistency. Especially since D and rebounding aren't a strength of theirs. We have to keep TOs low and shoot an above avg % and get to the FT line more then the other team to win games. Without a Murray, Garza and real go to guy to lean on and open it up for others it just makes it tough. We'll see how things play out.
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Personally, I think this teams cieling is higher than any of the Garza and Murray teams. Maybe NOT this season, but over all, this is a better collection of players 1-10 then Fran has had since he's been here. They don't have the alpha you mention but they have way more depth and more pieces. They don't have a true 5 and that hurts but imo that alpha is likely on the roster already, we just aren't seeing that player step up yet. Before Kris, Keegan or Luka became who they were, they had seasons that showed some hope, but didn't assure us what we had until we had it. Freeman could fit that bill. I think Sandfort still has plenty of growth. I think Pryce Sandfort will be better than Peyton. I think Harding is going to be an absolute stud. The B1G isn't great this year and I don't think we've seen what this team is capable of yet. They've played sideways and terrible so far, and they've played a really really tough schedule out of the gate and I think that's all going to play well down the stretch. As you said, we'll see how things play out but I could see this team go on a tear and where all these 3's that haven't been falling, start falling. Iowa is 77-15 at Carver since 2018 (that's a better record than Creighton is at home, or let's say ISU is at home) - they lost to Michigan, but I don't see Iowa losing more than one of 2 more at home this year if that.
 
InGoodCo said:
Personally, I think this teams cieling is higher than any of the Garza and Murray teams. Maybe NOT this season, but over all, this is a better collection of players 1-10 then Fran has had since he's been here. They don't have the alpha you mention but they have way more depth and more pieces. They don't have a true 5 and that hurts but imo that alpha is likely on the roster already, we just aren't seeing that player step up yet. Before Kris, Keegan or Luka became who they were, they had seasons that showed some hope, but didn't assure us what we had until we had it. Freeman could fit that bill. I think Sandfort still has plenty of growth. I think Pryce Sandfort will be better than Peyton. I think Harding is going to be an absolute stud. The B1G isn't great this year and I don't think we've seen what this team is capable of yet. They've played sideways and terrible so far, and they've played a really really tough schedule out of the gate and I think that's all going to play well down the stretch. As you said, we'll see how things play out but I could see this team go on a tear and where all these 3's that haven't been falling, start falling. Iowa is 77-15 at Carver since 2018 (that's a better record than Creighton is at home, or let's say ISU is at home) - they lost to Michigan, but I don't see Iowa losing more than one of 2 more at home this year if that.
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Yeah almost half of them are true freshman with a couple sophs so if they stay together and develop anythings possible. Harding is so key to it all. His potential is amazing. He'll be a household name by the end of next season if he keeps developing. I see no reason why he can't score more then he is too. Once he gets comfortable with the types of game shots he can get at this level he's capable of shooting well.

Same with Freeman he'll definitely be a house hold name next yr. Once his offensive game gets better (wouldn't it be awesome if he could spend a summer training with Garza?) look out.

I was hoping Bowen could be that guy but Fran doesn't seem to be as inclined to let him play more and develop on the floor. He's had a tough time finishing but he can get by guys off the dribble create and defend ok. He just can't get in a rhythm shooting or scoring partially because of his sporadic mins.
 
InGoodCo said:
I wouldn't completely write the dance off for this team, but setting your expectations as that being the goal is fair still imo. Iowa has a lot of winnable games left on the schedule, and just high enough level teams to continue to build their resume (Nebraska, Wisconsin, Purdue at Carver, Rutgers, Minne, Northwestern, Ohio State, IL, Michigan State) - any wins in that pool are going to be good resume wins.

I realize it's looked bad so far, but Iowa is playing a lot of new pieces. Not that shocking that they haven't really put it all together yet and it leaves me a little hope that the team will see substantial growth as the season unfolds.

Their losses in hindsight don't look real bad.
Loss to Ken Pom # 4 Purdue
Loss to Ken Pom #5 Iowa State
Loss to Ken Pom # 8 Creighton
Loss to Ken Pom # 21 Oklahoma (who was #7 yesterday)
Loss to Ken Pom #71 - Michigan - who will likely rise

So, while it hasn't been pretty, Iowa has played one heck of a schedule so far. I am hopeful we come out the otherside better for it. One thing is for certain, Fran has gotten his younger guys minutes and we're better moving forward because of it.
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Damn. This post will piss off the troops!
 
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