The long road ahead

S

SteveGarvey

Well-Known Member
Just seems like the same story every year here lately. I get optimistic because we look good for a few games and then we go out and play like that on Sunday and reality hits that we're still not very good. Yes, I think the team is better than last year's team with the additions of Cartwright and Basabe but only slightly.

People say that we're going to make it back to the Big Dance "in 3 or 4 years" but I'm not so sure. I mean, Northwestern has been a better program than Iowa for the past four years or so-we're a notch below them right now-and they've been to exactly how many NCAA tourneys in their history? That's right, I believe it's zero (at least in modern history).

Then, I listen to the Matt and Miller program last night. Now, I don't take what Matt Perrault says as the gospel truth, believe me. I think he has been unfair to the Hawks on recent issues for sure. But at the same time I have to wonder if what he was saying last night isn't true or at least partially true. He said he likes Fran but wonders about who he brought in as his recruiters. He singled out Sherman Dillard and asked who exactly he's brought in as recruits to this point. He asked "where are the recruits his connections to Nike Camps and such were supposed to bring in (paraphrasing)?"

Now, I know Dillard is still out there recruiting and he may end up bringing in some athletic recruits but this question lingers in the back of my mind.

The truth is it doesn't look like we'll be back to the NCAAs anytime soon. It might be three years, might be seven. Shoot, it might be 15 the way things are going.

Hope not, of course and I still have a lot of faith in Fran. But the doubts continue to linger.....
 
SteveGarvey said:
Just seems like the same story every year here lately. I get optimistic because we look good for a few games and then we go out and play like that on Sunday and reality hits that we're still not very good. Yes, I think the team is better than last year's team with the additions of Cartwright and Basabe but only slightly.

People say that we're going to make it back to the Big Dance "in 3 or 4 years" but I'm not so sure. I mean, Northwestern has been a better program than Iowa for the past four years or so-we're a notch below them right now-and they've been to exactly how many NCAA tourneys in their history? That's right, I believe it's zero (at least in modern history).

Then, I listen to the Matt and Miller program last night. Now, I don't take what Matt Perrault says as the gospel truth, believe me. I think he has been unfair to the Hawks on recent issues for sure. But at the same time I have to wonder if what he was saying last night isn't true or at least partially true. He said he likes Fran but wonders about who he brought in as his recruiters. He singled out Sherman Dillard and asked who exactly he's brought in as recruits to this point. He asked "where are the recruits his connections to Nike Camps and such were supposed to bring in (paraphrasing)?"

Now, I know Dillard is still out there recruiting and he may end up bringing in some athletic recruits but this question lingers in the back of my mind.

The truth is it doesn't look like we'll be back to the NCAAs anytime soon. It might be three years, might be seven. Shoot, it might be 15 the way things are going.

Hope not, of course and I still have a lot of faith in Fran. But the doubts continue to linger.....
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Hind sight is 20-20 but I don't remember anytime during the Lick years that we looked good. I like the style that Fran plays. I don't think we have seen a talent like Besabe since maybe Tyler Smith...what?... 5 years ago. Not saying Mel is as good as Tyler but we haven't seen anything like him in a long time. I am excited about watching this team and actually pay attention to when they play. Haven't done that for a long time either. Sunday was a definite stinker. Going to have them from time to tme. And it isn't as if that loss cost us a post season berth or higher seed in the Big Ten Tourney. Expect they wll flush that game and move on.
 
I've felt the biggest hurdle is recruiting. Why would anyone want to play here? Immediate playing time isn't what sells to most of these kids otherwise we could land more talent.

I kind of agree on the Dillard comment, as i was hoping his connections could land us some better prospects, and so far we've been turned down by everyone except the two guys we've got.

I do think Fran is a better coach than Lick, and time will tell if he's better than Alford.....but where he has to be better than both combined is recruiting.
 
Fran has to bring in a B10 center. Bottom line and build from there. Rebounding is killing us. We need a big time center.
 
SteveGarvey said:
Just seems like the same story every year here lately. I get optimistic because we look good for a few games and then we go out and play like that on Sunday and reality hits that we're still not very good. Yes, I think the team is better than last year's team with the additions of Cartwright and Basabe but only slightly.

People say that we're going to make it back to the Big Dance "in 3 or 4 years" but I'm not so sure. I mean, Northwestern has been a better program than Iowa for the past four years or so-we're a notch below them right now-and they've been to exactly how many NCAA tourneys in their history? That's right, I believe it's zero (at least in modern history).

Then, I listen to the Matt and Miller program last night. Now, I don't take what Matt Perrault says as the gospel truth, believe me. I think he has been unfair to the Hawks on recent issues for sure. But at the same time I have to wonder if what he was saying last night isn't true or at least partially true. He said he likes Fran but wonders about who he brought in as his recruiters. He singled out Sherman Dillard and asked who exactly he's brought in as recruits to this point. He asked "where are the recruits his connections to Nike Camps and such were supposed to bring in (paraphrasing)?"

Now, I know Dillard is still out there recruiting and he may end up bringing in some athletic recruits but this question lingers in the back of my mind.

The truth is it doesn't look like we'll be back to the NCAAs anytime soon. It might be three years, might be seven. Shoot, it might be 15 the way things are going.

Hope not, of course and I still have a lot of faith in Fran. But the doubts continue to linger.....
Click to expand...


Matty P is just a nattering naysayer. Ask him about McDermott, and he will ignore his years at ISU and how he was a miserable failure. He will talk about his years at UNI and point to his success.

Look at the positive results Fran has had in the past. He has taken multiple teams and turned them around. He has gotten talent to go to Siena to play BB, and he will do the same for Iowa. Look at the connection he has with Basabe. He got him to commit to Siena, and then follow him to Iowa (which is not easy to do with NY kids). Look at the effort that the kids put on the floor each and every night. Sure they get beaten down sometimes (they just don't have as much talent as other teams right now). Yet they find ways to hang in games when the other teams talent level is higher. I think that bodes well for the future.

Once Fran gets his players in, I think the talent level elevates, and we start seeing the marked improvement. He gets a deeper bench, he can press and run more, and play a style that he wants. I really like the connection that he has with his players, they play hard, and buy into what he is trying to do.

So take what Matty P says with a grain of salt. The program he supports he looks past the issues that he points out on other programs. This is fairly normal behavior really, and not shocking by any means.....
 
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Excellent post and follow up responses. It is hard not to be cynical about Iowa basketball, as we have been bad on the court and plagued with off the court issues. I have wondered about recruiting as well. I thought Speraw, Dillard and Francis were supposed to have connections, but we heard the same about Alford and Lickliter with Indiana AAU and that didn't exactly pan out.

I like McCaffrey and am confident he "gets it". I highly doubt he would have offered McCabe if he had a choice and I think the same could be said about Oglesby. He has to weather the storm until he gets his players in and that is going to take him 3 recruiting classes. We have so little big ten caliber talent that despite returning all but Cole next season, I just don't see them being much better unless White and Oglesby exceed expectations and we land two legit players with remaining scholarships.
 
Section136 said:
According to the Big 10 website we are +1.3 rebounds per game. Our rebounding isnt as awful as some make it out to be.
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It has been lately. Do those stats go off of nonconference games too? I bet they do. Our rebounding and turnovers are awful.
 
AtownHawk1 said:
It has been lately. Do those stats go off of nonconference games too? I bet they do. Our rebounding and turnovers are awful.
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Non-conference games- +6.42 reb/game
Conference games- -3.46 reb/game


The 2 most recent games are Wisky, who got seemingly every offensive rebound possible in the 1st half, and Minny, who absolutely crushed us on the boards (38-25). That is what is fresh in peoples minds so our struggles will be a bit exaggerated. Are we a good rebounding team? No. Are we an awful rebounding team? No.
 
Not sure how you can dog on his recruiting up to this point. His only two recruits that have seen the floor up to this point are arguable our best players on the team. He recruited Bryce on short notice and he was forced to come in and be the man after Cully went down. Not much time for a learning curve there.

Basabe has made huge strides and he is a guy this team can build around. He will most likely be all big ten at some point.

Then next year we signed two players, one of which is a top 150 player from Iowa. If we didn't sign him people would be complaining that we let another one slip through the cracks.

Our last guy seems like a good recruit but not a whole lot of info out there about him. But I know I will let him step foot on the court before I crucify Fran for making a bad decision on him.

The only thing he has done wrong with recruiting is let a couple very highly ranked guys from Iowa sign with UNC.

Im not sure if he will bring in top guys in the future but I know that I can't complain about what we have so far. The alternative would be to bring in a bunch of already used misfits from other schools like ISU has.
 
It's still early in his tenure but he has to start bringing in some real Big Ten caliber players or he will meet the same fate as our previous coach. It's not about the X's and the O's, it's about the Jimmy's and the Joe's.
 
Our turnovers are awful. Sometimes I wondering if I'm really seeing what is happening. We are making stupid mistakes and are throwing terrible passes. Sometimes right to the other team. I don't get it.
 
I don't think it is fair to dog on Dillard. Connections help you find players as well as get in the door with players. However, it doesn't "get" you players unless there is something fishy going on behind the scenes. Finally, Sherm wasn't brought in to be a recruiter. He was brought in as a coach, and he is a good coach. I think people think about his connections and forget that the man was a head coach for a while. Finally, you see that we are recruiting players from across the country and that is a direct result of the connections that the coaching staff has. I have faith that Fran and co. will get it done. Recruiting has been a lot tougher thus far than they anticipated due to just how far we have fallen, but I think you will see us improve with each class.
 
Optimism my friend...

SteveGarvey said:
Just seems like the same story every year here lately. I get optimistic because we look good for a few games and then we go out and play like that on Sunday and reality hits that we're still not very good. Yes, I think the team is better than last year's team with the additions of Cartwright and Basabe but only slightly.

People say that we're going to make it back to the Big Dance "in 3 or 4 years" but I'm not so sure. I mean, Northwestern has been a better program than Iowa for the past four years or so-we're a notch below them right now-and they've been to exactly how many NCAA tourneys in their history? That's right, I believe it's zero (at least in modern history).

Then, I listen to the Matt and Miller program last night. Now, I don't take what Matt Perrault says as the gospel truth, believe me. I think he has been unfair to the Hawks on recent issues for sure. But at the same time I have to wonder if what he was saying last night isn't true or at least partially true. He said he likes Fran but wonders about who he brought in as his recruiters. He singled out Sherman Dillard and asked who exactly he's brought in as recruits to this point. He asked "where are the recruits his connections to Nike Camps and such were supposed to bring in (paraphrasing)?"

Now, I know Dillard is still out there recruiting and he may end up bringing in some athletic recruits but this question lingers in the back of my mind.

The truth is it doesn't look like we'll be back to the NCAAs anytime soon. It might be three years, might be seven. Shoot, it might be 15 the way things are going.

Hope not, of course and I still have a lot of faith in Fran. But the doubts continue to linger.....
Click to expand...

it's all we have to hang our hats on. If anyone thought that Dillard had a magic list of players who were waiting to follow him like the Pied Piper, they had unrealistic expectations. Like anything, recruiting is a team effort. Dillard has been in the business for a long time at a lot of different places. To date, Fran has brought in or signed 4 players. The two that have seen the court (Basabe and Cartwright) can play. The other two that are signed (Ogelsby and White) appear to be able to play, but we'll need them to get on campus before determining that (duh).

Let's see who Iowa brings in during the spring period. If they can get another good guard and a big guy or 2 who can play, then the needle is pointing up. Not NCAA tournament up, but up.

Lickliter had a couple of major problems. One, he didn't seem to enjoy recruiting. Two, he had a complete inability to retain the good players he did have. You simply cannot improve if your leading returning scorer leaves your program year upon year upon year.

Fran seems to do a good job of connecting with his team and having the pulse of it. Iowa WILL be better next year if Cartwright and Basabe return, and he adds a couple guys who can play to the guys who are already here or signed.

I am sure that Fran realizes that his success will largely rest upon what players he can bring in. I would agree that the 2011 spring signing period and the 2012 class will largely determine Fran's success/failure at Iowa. You have 1-2 years to get the momentum moving in the right direction. Bringing in Basabe and Cartwright was a good start. Now he needs to follow it up with some more players.
 
Dexter said:
It's still early in his tenure but he has to start bringing in some real Big Ten caliber players or he will meet the same fate as our previous coach. It's not about the X's and the O's, it's about the Jimmy's and the Joe's.
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Like Basabe and Cartwright?


I hate what a bad loss will do to these boards.
 
Hawkstrat said:
Like Basabe and Cartwright?


I hate what a bad loss will do to these boards.
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Nobody is dogging Basabe and Cartwright. Unfortunately we can't jettison 2-3 more players to make way for more Basabes and Cartwrights. I am waiting for the "If we had Cougill" crowd to reappear and drive me over the edge.

I agree that it is way too early to freak out about recruiting. McCaffrey spent his first 2 months dealing with bs from the former regime and building a staff. He had no choice with McCabe and after the panic over Uthoff signing with WI, he had to sign Oglesby. Unincumbered with Lickliter's baggage and able to sign his guys, I expect the talent level to rise incrementally.
 
My rule of thumb from years of experience is when you let things slide and ignore a problem it takes at least as long to get out of it as it took to get into to it.
That said there is no way it would take Fran 13 yrs to get things turned around at Iowa. He has done more in this season already as far as coaching and teaching these kids than Lick did total. And his in game coaching is much better than Alford as well.
Can you imagine what Fran would do with the same recruits that SA had to work with?
I would venture to say that Fran would have landed a couple of those highly rated players that SA always seemed to get close with but couldn't finish the deal.
 
Player retention has been a huge issue the last few years. How many players have transferred out of the program in the last 5+ years? It's hard to build a program and any sort of consistency in a program when the personnel is changing constantly. It can't help recruiting any when recruits see one or more players transferring out of a program each year. Hopefully this offseason won't see the player defections we've seen the last few years. If that happens this program can indeed start improving and we may see the team get back to the big dance.
 
atxhawk said:
Player retention has been a huge issue the last few years. How many players have transferred out of the program in the last 5+ years? It's hard to build a program and any sort of consistency in a program when the personnel is changing constantly. It can't help recruiting any when recruits see one or more players transferring out of a program each year. Hopefully this offseason won't see the player defections we've seen the last few years. If that happens this program can indeed start improving and we may see the team get back to the big dance.
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For those that are thinking there is no hope in sight need to remember this. I remember a stretch of games in Licks second year when Jake took the team on his back and it was fun to watch. I thought maybe things are turning around...then Jake transferred. You can never build momentum this way. If everybody comes back next year I think you will see a much better team in the preseason and then build on it during the Big Ten.

Also, I think it is an excellent sign that probably 2 of our top 3 players are here entirely because of Fran and he had less time to bring Cartwright in then he will 2 more players this fall. I think Fran is an excellent evaluator of talent and will get a couple of players that while won't jump off the page will be an improvement just like Basabe and Cartwright were this year.
 
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