The 'is Uhtoff best hawkeye ever' article

[Dadman]

My first memories of Iowa basketball are the Chris Street and Acie Earl teams. As far as all around best player in my memory I would have to say it is Uthoff. Look at the numbers he puts up on both ends of the floor. And he doesn't even assert himself offensively nearly as much as the majority of any of the players that have been mentioned in here. Thirteen shots a game when he's hitting close to fifty percent from wherever he is on the floor is crazy. I'd like to see him above twenty shots. That will open things up for the other players also and he will affect the games that much more. For any of the old timers in here I pose a question, how does the overall talent compare for this Uthoff/Iowa team compare to any of the teams in the past? What would Uthoff do if he had BJ Armstrong, Roy Marble, Brad Lohaus and Kevin Gamble playing with him? Does the over all talent on this team compare to that team or the team lead by Ronny Lester?

My thoughts:

1. JJ (John Johnson) and the Dealers 1970. Starting five averaged 27.9, 19.1, 17.9, 17.3 and 10.3 ppg respectively.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/iowa/1970.html
2. Probably the Armstrong/Marble/Lohaus/Gamble- still think that team could have won it all.........
3. Lester team. They were special in their own right, and Lester was really, really good...........

The current team? Still some work to do, but very pleasantly surprised-there is special talent here.

Above is only based on teams I actually saw play. If the 1970 team had the 3 point basket, their per game average of 98.7 would easily be over 100. Kind of hard to argue against them. No 3 point shot, no clock and could they score at will.........

 

[WindsorHawk]

The frustrating thing is Uthoff could be the best period, could go from a great player to "all-time great" if he had more aggression offensively. That stat of 13.5 shots per game, with his skills would be better in the 20-23 range. That would help the entire team as defenders have to account for him with double teams, creating open shots.

I disagree. His percentages are so good because he's taking good shots. And the team is playing so well collectively because he's getting other players involved. I won't be surprised to see Uthoff take more shots some games. But I'm content to see him taking pretty much all of the shots in stretches when we're stagnant...like he did last night and has in other games...and getting other players involved when the guys are playing well collectively.

 

[PCHawk]

I disagree. His percentages are so good because he's taking good shots. And the team is playing so well collectively because he's getting other players involved. I won't be surprised to see Uthoff take more shots some games. But I'm content to see him taking pretty much all of the shots in stretches when we're stagnant...like he did last night and has in other games...and getting other players involved when the guys are playing well collectively.

He takes too many deep turn around 2 point shots to say he has a good percentage because of shot selection. Then again, when you're JU, every shot is a good shot.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I go back as far as the Ronnie Lester days. Chris Street is the only comparable player...considering all around skills. He was as good as Uthoff IMO. Keep in mind Chris passed away half way through his junior season. He was going to get a lot better.

 

[WindsorHawk]

He takes too many deep turn around 2 point shots to say he has a good percentage because of shot selection. Then again, when you're JU, every shot is a good shot.

But some of those are when he's trying to carry the team...stagnant on offense. I'm content to let him take whatever shots he wants to take whenever he wants to take them.

 

[shuman346]

My thoughts:

1. JJ (John Johnson) and the Dealers 1970. Starting five averaged 27.9, 19.1, 17.9, 17.3 and 10.3 ppg respectively.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/iowa/1970.html
2. Probably the Armstrong/Marble/Lohaus/Gamble- still think that team could have won it all.........
3. Lester team. They were special in their own right, and Lester was really, really good...........

The current team? Still some work to do, but very pleasantly surprised-there is special talent here.

Above is only based on teams I actually saw play. If the 1970 team had the 3 point basket, their per game average of 98.7 would easily be over 100. Kind of hard to argue against them. No 3 point shot, no clock and could they score at will.........

Thankyou. I guess part of what I am asking is where those teams so talent laden that their stats where all inflated? How good where those teams defensively? How would Uthoff do if he played with that much talent? Do you feel like the current team is as talented overall as any of those teams? Would Uthoff even play?

 

[1977Hawkeye]

My first memories of Iowa basketball are the Chris Street and Acie Earl teams. As far as all around best player in my memory I would have to say it is Uthoff. Look at the numbers he puts up on both ends of the floor. And he doesn't even assert himself offensively nearly as much as the majority of any of the players that have been mentioned in here. Thirteen shots a game when he's hitting close to fifty percent from wherever he is on the floor is crazy. I'd like to see him above twenty shots. That will open things up for the other players also and he will affect the games that much more. For any of the old timers in here I pose a question, how does the overall talent compare for this Uthoff/Iowa team compare to any of the teams in the past? What would Uthoff do if he had BJ Armstrong, Roy Marble, Brad Lohaus and Kevin Gamble playing with him? Does the over all talent on this team compare to that team or the team lead by Ronny Lester?

Just my opinion, but with Street, that 1992-93 team was the closest Iowa ever got to getting back to the level of that 1986-87 team in the years since. 1992-93 was arguably the best front court I've seen an Iowa team have, or certainly close to it. Iowa was in or near the Top 10 when they lost Street and I believe were leading the country in rebound margin. They were still good but not quite the same after. We'll never know, but I felt that team could've made a run at a Final Four, but guess it wasn't meant to be.

If Uthoff had that 1986-87 lineup around him, I'd wager he may actually score a little LESS than he's been, but only because the team would have more balance with all those scorers instead of just a couple players carrying the load. I think Uthoff would be fine in that Mr. Davis system with those players - I don't think he'd have a problem getting up and down the court, and would be good in that full court press with as easily as he seems to tip passes, etc.

Talent-wise, it's tough to compare this team to years past, but I tend to think some of Mr. Davis's better 1990's teams might be close. We'll see how this year pans out, but 4-6 seed material maybe? I feel this year's team doesn't have enough post presence and just doesn't have the overall talent and depth the 1986-87 team had to be considered on THAT level. That team was loaded. Just my 2 cents.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Thankyou. I guess part of what I am asking is where those teams so talent laden that their stats where all inflated? How good where those teams defensively? How would Uthoff do if he played with that much talent? Do you feel like the current team is as talented overall as any of those teams? Would Uthoff even play?

I can't talk about anything prior to the 1980's Iowa teams, but I have to believe Uthoff would have played significant minutes on that 1986-87 Iowa team. He's too good not to IMO. Would he start? That's a different question. That team had a great starting 5. Maybe he starts in place of Horton/Wright but otherwise I'm sure he'd be one of the first off the bench with Jeff Moe, etc. I suppose it depends on what type of lineup Davis would have wanted on the floor. JU is certainly good enough to start, though, IMO.

Yes, that particular team really was that stacked, but Uthoff would easily have been a starter on any of Mr. Davis's other teams IMO.

Defensively - if you remember Street/Earl then you probably saw enough of Davis's teams to know this, but what I remember was his teams having an effective press at times, and were tough in the paint, but their transition/perimeter defense was usually pretty shoddy. I'm sure Uthoff would've been good as one of those guys defending the inbound passes, or maybe as a shot blocker at the back end of the press. He certainly could have improved the perimeter D with his shot blocking ability.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

This team has that much needed 3 headed monster where any one of 3 can poor in 20-25 a night if needed, Uthoff, Jok and Gesell. Throw in there a lock down defender in Clemmons and you have a good make-up of a team. Two players can often times be defended, the 3 headed monster is very tough when all can shoot from the perimeter.

 

[WindsorHawk]

This team has that much needed 3 headed monster where any one of 3 can poor in 20-25 a night if needed, Uthoff, Jok and Gesell. Throw in there a lock down defender in Clemmons and you have a good make-up of a team. Two players can often times be defended, the 3 headed monster is very tough when all can shoot from the perimeter.

I agree. And the other 4 in the rotation can be counted on to score about 35 collectively so they can't be completely ignored by the opponent.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I agree. And the other 4 in the rotation can be counted on to score about 35 collectively so they can't be completely ignored by the opponent.

Another key is that 4 on the court have the ability to knock down the 3 so pulls the D out. Actually, most on Iowa's roster can shoot the 3 and have the green light. It makes it tough to guard the 3 pt line and the lane at the same time.

Iowa State does that as well.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

We'll see in March, not even sure he's better than white or dev marble.

Agree we need to see a full season, but at this point, I think JU is a more reliable scorer than RDM and AW. RDM was pretty spotty with his jumper, at times, and could vanish at times, also. AW was the ultimate garbage man and made a living on the boards and at the ft line. If only he'd had the wherewithall to shoot the 3-ball like he did the last half of the B1G season, last year, throughout his enitre career.

I will say, the Uthoff get's the "best quote from a Iowa basketball player" designation when his reply to a question after the PU win was: "We played with a set of nuts, tonight and that is all I have to say." Amen and you can tell he is the teams leader.

 

[shuman346]

I can't talk about anything prior to the 1980's Iowa teams, but I have to believe Uthoff would have played significant minutes on that 1986-87 Iowa team. He's too good not to IMO. Would he start? That's a different question. That team had a great starting 5. Maybe he starts in place of Horton/Wright but otherwise I'm sure he'd be one of the first off the bench with Jeff Moe, etc. I suppose it depends on what type of lineup Davis would have wanted on the floor. JU is certainly good enough to start, though, IMO.

Yes, that particular team really was that stacked, but Uthoff would easily have been a starter on any of Mr. Davis's other teams IMO.

Defensively - if you remember Street/Earl then you probably saw enough of Davis's teams to know this, but what I remember was his teams having an effective press at times, and were tough in the paint, but their transition/perimeter defense was usually pretty shoddy. I'm sure Uthoff would've been good as one of those guys defending the inbound passes, or maybe as a shot blocker at the back end of the press. He certainly could have improved the perimeter D with his shot blocking ability.

I do remember the Davis teams. Those teams always where good defensively on the interior but I absolutely remember them leaving the three point line open and getting shredded from time to time by a guy who got hot and they'd just let it rain. God, so frustrating still. Lol. I remember Street so well. I cried watching the news with my dad and he just sat there stunned. I remember the Michigan State game and the come back. Wow. Anyway, as far as this team goes I feel like Uthoff is clearly our best player. I can't help but wonder how we will fare if Gessell can continue to score as he has the last couple of games while also spreading the ball so well. If we ever get a night where Uthoff, Gessell and Jok are on I have to think we can play with anybody. I would probably tend to agree that he's the best since at least Chris Street. We are probably splitting hairs with this entire conversation.

 

[uihawk82]

The 1970 team actually was on TV more than normal because they were so exciting. so we got to see them play. And uhtoff would have exceled on that team in that time where they cleared a rebound and could get a layup on the other end with a minimum of dribbles. Uhtoff is fluid like John Johnson and he would have been rebounding and running, spotting up for jumpers, he is very good and would have been good on a lot of these past teams.

 

[JonDMiller]

I think when you break down skills and compare them, it's not hard to compare to the past. Street was a beast of a rebounder and had incredible drive..but Uthoff can create his own shot better than Chris could, and Uthoff is a borderline elite three point shooter where Street did not have that in his game. Street was primarily a paint scorer. Uthoff as a defender is just as productive, at worst.

I just can't think of any Iowa player in my lifetime who has a better all around skill set (good in many areas) as Uthoff.

 

[lightning1]

Would have been interesting to see the numbers Matt Bullard would have put up at Iowa, if he had stayed healthy. His SO season at Colorado he avg 16.6 PPG and 10 Rebs. Then he transferred to Iowa and never seemed to be healthy.

 

[trj]

Uthoff reminds me of Teyshaun Prince same game, same body type. Prince is like 100 years old and still collecting an NBA paycheck.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

J...F....C... "Best ever" is the next overused cliche' that needs to go away